Dak+ or Wentz++ (Superflex)

[Goddard]

Wentz = Dak (they're close enough that differing opinions on the two shouldn't make a difference)

Wentz and Dak aren't equal. C'mon, man. The gap may not be big when both are healthy, but there's a gap. Wentz has also had two seasons end early out of four while Dak is 16/16 every year and just came off his best year.

You can't make the case that Minshew>>Brissett is "huge" because of Superflex and then call the #4 and #9 dynasty QBs "equal." The whole debate is whether the other pieces cover the gap.

So I can't say that a starting QB over a backup QB is huge, but the gap between #4 and #9 is huge? OK

Also, just checked ADP on DLF and it has Dak at 4 and Wentz at 7. Making the gap even smaller.

[FantasyFreak]

Wentz and Dak aren't equal. C'mon, man. The gap may not be big when both are healthy, but there's a gap. Wentz has also had two seasons end early out of four while Dak is 16/16 every year and just came off his best year.

You can't make the case that Minshew>>Brissett is "huge" because of Superflex and then call the #4 and #9 dynasty QBs "equal." The whole debate is whether the other pieces cover the gap.

So I can't say that a starting QB over a backup QB is huge, but the gap between #4 and #9 is huge? OK

Also, just checked ADP on DLF and it has Dak at 4 and Wentz at 7. Making the gap even smaller.

Yep, besides, their rankings aren't the absolute authority.

[Goddard]

So I can't say that a starting QB over a backup QB is huge, but the gap between #4 and #9 is huge? OK

Also, just checked ADP on DLF and it has Dak at 4 and Wentz at 7. Making the gap even smaller.

Yep, besides, their rankings aren't the absolute authority.

Agree

[Yarnith]

I like the Dak side, think you did right with it. I think Knox is a low investment, that offense will look very different with Diggs as a much more complete and competent WR than Buffalo has had in recent memory, actually very high on the man. I see the trade mroe as stage one, I would double down and get Brissett and Mattison sold to the owners who need them and make a tidy profit off the whole deal.

[Paul Crewe]

Wentz = Dak (they're close enough that differing opinions on the two shouldn't make a difference)

Wentz and Dak aren't equal. C'mon, man. The gap may not be big when both are healthy, but there's a gap. Wentz has also had two seasons end early out of four while Dak is 16/16 every year and just came off his best year.

You can't make the case that Minshew>>Brissett is "huge" because of Superflex and then call the #4 and #9 dynasty QBs "equal." The whole debate is whether the other pieces cover the gap.

So I can't say that a starting QB over a backup QB is huge, but the gap between #4 and #9 is huge? OK

I didn't say the gap between Dak and Wentz is huge. I just said one existed and challenged the rationale of denying that gap while highlighting another one between lesser QBs due to Superflex. That said, I completely agree with your assessment of Minshew vs. Brissett.

To quantify it, over the last two seasons, Dak has been nearly 2 points better per game on average than Wentz using our league's scoring settings (20.2 to 18.5). Not huge, but certainly significant. That's also 32 games for Dak vs. 27 for Wentz.

Through all four seasons of their careers, he's been roughly 1.0 point better on average. Not as significant, but again, no missed games for Dak vs. 8 for Wentz including the entirety of 2 fantasy playoffs. I'm not sure why that gets dismissed so easily. Maybe because Foles kept saving the day in his absence.

Outside of fantasy, I agree that Dak and Wentz are close to equal in terms of real-life talent. I might actually opt for Wentz in a QB vacuum devoid of surrounding personnel and injury history. If you were implying something similar and I misunderstood, I apologize. We obviously disagree in principle on values here, but I intend no disrespect.

[FantasyFreak]

Wentz and Dak aren't equal. C'mon, man. The gap may not be big when both are healthy, but there's a gap. Wentz has also had two seasons end early out of four while Dak is 16/16 every year and just came off his best year.

You can't make the case that Minshew>>Brissett is "huge" because of Superflex and then call the #4 and #9 dynasty QBs "equal." The whole debate is whether the other pieces cover the gap.

So I can't say that a starting QB over a backup QB is huge, but the gap between #4 and #9 is huge? OK

I didn't say the gap between Dak and Wentz is huge. I just said one existed and challenged the rationale of denying that gap while highlighting another one between lesser QBs due to Superflex. That said, I completely agree with your assessment of Minshew vs. Brissett.

To quantify it, over the last two seasons, Dak has been nearly 2 points better per game on average than Wentz using our league's scoring settings (20.2 to 18.5). Not huge, but certainly significant. That's also 32 games for Dak vs. 27 for Wentz.

Through all four seasons of their careers, he's been roughly 1.0 point better on average. Not as significant, but again, no missed games for Dak vs. 8 for Wentz including the entirety of 2 fantasy playoffs. I'm not sure why that gets dismissed so easily. Maybe because Foles kept saving the day in his absence.

Outside of fantasy, I agree that Dak and Wentz are close to equal in terms of real-life talent. I might actually opt for Wentz in a QB vacuum devoid of surrounding personnel and injury history. If you were implying something similar and I misunderstand, I apologize. We obviously disagree in principle on values here, but I intend no disrespect.

Solid post.

[Paul Crewe]

So I can't say that a starting QB over a backup QB is huge, but the gap between #4 and #9 is huge? OK

I didn't say the gap between Dak and Wentz is huge. I just said one existed and challenged the rationale of denying that gap while highlighting another one between lesser QBs due to Superflex. That said, I completely agree with your assessment of Minshew vs. Brissett.

To quantify it, over the last two seasons, Dak has been nearly 2 points better per game on average than Wentz using our league's scoring settings (20.2 to 18.5). Not huge, but certainly significant. That's also 32 games for Dak vs. 27 for Wentz.

Through all four seasons of their careers, he's been roughly 1.0 point better on average. Not as significant, but again, no missed games for Dak vs. 8 for Wentz including the entirety of 2 fantasy playoffs. I'm not sure why that gets dismissed so easily. Maybe because Foles kept saving the day in his absence.

Outside of fantasy, I agree that Dak and Wentz are close to equal in terms of real-life talent. I might actually opt for Wentz in a QB vacuum devoid of surrounding personnel and injury history. If you were implying something similar and I misunderstood, I apologize. We obviously disagree in principle on values here, but I intend no disrespect.

Solid post.

Much appreciated.

I agreed with pretty much everything you said in your post. Dak is undoubtedly in the better situation; far superior receivers, a top-flight RB to help shoulder the load, doesn't play in the cold, doesn't play outdoors, just upgraded head coaches while retaining the OC that led to his best season, etc.

But I view all of that as more positives for Dak from a fantasy perspective. Having those weapons leaves him open to more criticism when the 'Boys don't get it done, but whatever scores more fake football points for my team.

[Goddard]

I didn't say the gap between Dak and Wentz is huge. I just said one existed and challenged the rationale of denying that gap while highlighting another one between lesser QBs due to Superflex. That said, I completely agree with your assessment of Minshew vs. Brissett.

To quantify it, over the last two seasons, Dak has been nearly 2 points better per game on average than Wentz using our league's scoring settings (20.2 to 18.5). Not huge, but certainly significant. That's also 32 games for Dak vs. 27 for Wentz.

Through all four seasons of their careers, he's been roughly 1.0 point better on average. Not as significant, but again, no missed games for Dak vs. 8 for Wentz including the entirety of 2 fantasy playoffs. I'm not sure why that gets dismissed so easily. Maybe because Foles kept saving the day in his absence.

Outside of fantasy, I agree that Dak and Wentz are close to equal in terms of real-life talent. I might actually opt for Wentz in a QB vacuum devoid of surrounding personnel and injury history. If you were implying something similar and I misunderstood, I apologize. We obviously disagree in principle on values here, but I intend no disrespect.

None taken. I just personally don't think the gap between Dak and Wentz should be large in dynasty. I realize people take Wentz' time missed into account, but we should also give him credit for playing the entire season last year and playing as well as he did with the weapons he had (or lack thereof). I think Philly has addressed that issue to an extent and I think Wentz will only improve next year. I have nothing against Dak and like both, but I feel like we've seen his ceiling or close to it. I'm not even sure who I'd take straight up personally, but I just don't think the gap is very big either way.

I also think people blow injuries out of proportion. Wentz' injuries were pretty freak injuries and I don't think he's some kind of injury prone player. I argued this about Keenan Allen for a long time before he showed he can stay healthy and put up WR1 numbers for multiple consecutive years. I would worry about Wentz' injury history as much as I would worry about Mahomes missing time last year because a dislocated knee...not much at all.

As far as Minshew and Brissett, my point was that the gap between a starting QB and a backup QB in SF is larger than the gap between Dak and Wentz. In a SF, having that extra starting QB could make a huge difference.

[Paul Crewe]

I didn't say the gap between Dak and Wentz is huge. I just said one existed and challenged the rationale of denying that gap while highlighting another one between lesser QBs due to Superflex. That said, I completely agree with your assessment of Minshew vs. Brissett.

To quantify it, over the last two seasons, Dak has been nearly 2 points better per game on average than Wentz using our league's scoring settings (20.2 to 18.5). Not huge, but certainly significant. That's also 32 games for Dak vs. 27 for Wentz.

Through all four seasons of their careers, he's been roughly 1.0 point better on average. Not as significant, but again, no missed games for Dak vs. 8 for Wentz including the entirety of 2 fantasy playoffs. I'm not sure why that gets dismissed so easily. Maybe because Foles kept saving the day in his absence.

Outside of fantasy, I agree that Dak and Wentz are close to equal in terms of real-life talent. I might actually opt for Wentz in a QB vacuum devoid of surrounding personnel and injury history. If you were implying something similar and I misunderstood, I apologize. We obviously disagree in principle on values here, but I intend no disrespect.

None taken. I just personally don't think the gap between Dak and Wentz should be large in dynasty. I realize people take Wentz' time missed into account, but we should also give him credit for playing the entire season last year and playing as well as he did with the weapons he had (or lack thereof). I think Philly has addressed that issue to an extent and I think Wentz will only improve next year. I have nothing against Dak and like both, but I feel like we've seen his ceiling or close to it. I'm not even sure who I'd take straight up personally, but I just don't think the gap is very big either way.

I also think people blow injuries out of proportion. Wentz' injuries were pretty freak injuries and I don't think he's some kind of injury prone player. I argued this about Keenan Allen for a long time before he showed he can stay healthy and put up WR1 numbers for multiple consecutive years. I would worry about Wentz' injury history as much as I would worry about Mahomes missing time last year because a dislocated knee...not much at all.

As far as Minshew and Brissett, my point was that the gap between a starting QB and a backup QB in SF is larger than the gap between Dak and Wentz. In a SF, having that extra starting QB could make a huge difference.

I appreciate the additional input. We're really not that opposed on much of anything here. We see the gap between Dak and Wentz differently in part because I can't so easily dismiss my concerns about CW's health. That could just be my fantasy PTSD as he did come back to play 16 games last year, but injuries (and the required recovery effort) tend to amplify a player's mileage over time.

But they were freak injuries as you said, seemingly the result of CW trying/having to do too much and take too many chances in the absence of surrounding talent. One of those was on an aggressive head-first dive into the end zone. Coaches have also worked with him on running out of bounds vs. trying to bully for more yardage to preserve his body. Maybe last year is evidence that he's finally learned to better protect himself. Perhaps the new WR corps will ease the burden on him too.

I wasn't looking to get rid of CW out of these concerns. I would have loved to keep him but he was the only centerpiece QB I could offer in pursuit of someone like Dak. Even if you see them as equal, you can't deny that Dak has been a better fantasy scorer and overall producer to date. And even if he was just lucky, he has still somehow avoided the same freak injuries that have knocked Wentz out of games.

Regardless, I totally agree that the gap is larger between Minshew and Brissett. Any current real-life NFL starter has significant value in SF for however long they can hold the job. I don't believe that will be very long for Minshew, but I didn't take trading him lightly. Only because I still have Ryan and Brees was I able to roll the dice on shipping GM out.

[McCafsteez]

Late to the party, but I would prefer the Wentz side!