Official/Final 2020 Rookie RB Ranks

[FantasyFreak]

No wonder he may be hedging when posters like you can’t give it rest. We get it, you have an issue with his takes - just avoid his threads in the future and everyone’s a winner.

This has nothing to do with it. Nobody is putting a gun to Mike's head. OCR can post what he wants. Regardless whether I agree with him or not, we're not here to police what other people can post, as long as they aren't personal attacks that don't deal with the subject matter, which these aren't. He's not obligated to avoid these threads. You can simply choose not to read his takes, or respond to them.

Policing my policing

Well, I'm just saying it's not right to try and censor him, which is what a few seem to be doing. I'm just trying to provide an alternative that doesn't result in trying to mute somebody. There is a "foe" option, which blocks you from having to read anything from a poster.

Let's not forget that Mike welcomes this stuff. He has said stuff like:

"I used to put several hours into a post just for it to die off in a matter of hours or a day if I was lucky. I found that bold takes and/or criticism towards my opinions keeps my topics alive."

[dustyroads]

I think the last thing anyone wants is to try and silence dissenting opinions. The whole purpose of a message board is to get feedback from a wide variety of viewpoints on any given topic. Telling people to not comment/go read elsewhere if they disagree just creates an echochamber where people aren't actually formulating opinions here, but rather just funneling only the information which supports their already formed opinions and further entrenches them there. If that's what people are looking for, turn on the news station of your political preference.

I think OCR has done quite an admirable job of going out of his way to NOT make things personal, and using exact quotes from Mike himself to debate with him so as to keep it relevant and based in fact. The only real bias I see leaking into this thread are a few people who seem to be ignoring the conversation all together to come in and "white knight" for Mike (which never saw him ask for or encourage, kudos) without providing any real context to the debate. Sorry if people disagreeing makes you uncomfortable, but don't stifle good conversation because of that. I know the openness and differing of opinions on these boards are what keeps me coming back. If I wanted chalk echochamber stuff, I'd listen to Matthew Berry spend an entire off-season never talking about anyone outside of the top 20 players in the league.

[Ice]

This is a pretty small community and like all these sites they run the risk of getting smaller.

The reality is some post opinion based on how they research and others love to criticize without actually offering a productive counterpoint argument.

Its one thing to make the occasional joke but it does get annoying to some, NOT ALL, after a while when critiques turn into long running blatant trolling. (BTW "a while" doesn't go back to 2018 )

Mike's a big boy and can take care of himself. He probably gets some take every word he types literally without seeing the nuance.

That said, I wish he would get with the program and talk about RB's in One Contract Increments given hardly anyone makes it 10 years at that is annoying......

For the Wonderlick Challenged...... This post contains sarcasm on several levels!

Now back to bashing ridiculous opinions!
I am so glad the golf course is open today!

[FantasyFreak]

I think the last thing anyone wants is to try and silence dissenting opinions. The whole purpose of a message board is to get feedback from a wide variety of viewpoints on any given topic. Telling people to not comment/go read elsewhere if they disagree just creates an echochamber where people aren't actually formulating opinions here, but rather just funneling only the information which supports their already formed opinions and further entrenches them there. If that's what people are looking for, turn on the news station of your political preference.

I think OCR has done quite an admirable job of going out of his way to NOT make things personal, and using exact quotes from Mike himself to debate with him so as to keep it relevant and based in fact. The only real bias I see leaking into this thread are a few people who seem to be ignoring the conversation all together to come in and "white knight" for Mike (which never saw him ask for or encourage, kudos) without providing any real context to the debate. Sorry if people disagreeing makes you uncomfortable, but don't stifle good conversation because of that. I know the openness and differing of opinions on these boards are what keeps me coming back. If I wanted chalk echochamber stuff, I'd listen to Matthew Berry spend an entire off-season never talking about anyone outside of the top 20 players in the league.

Solid post.

[dlf_jaronf]

All, it appears this thread has gotten back on track. Criticism in any direction is absolutely fair game, just making sure it stays civil.

If you have an issue that goes beyond this, please feel free to PM me or Report the post. Thanks!

[moishetreats]

Here are some clarifications on my views of the RBs I ranked.

Clyde Edwards-Helaire - Long term back ~10 year career, bet on a slight under due to size. RB1 upside, top 5 upside.
Jonathan Taylor - Floor of ~3 years, ceiling of ~10 year career. Bet on the latter. RB1, top 5 upside.
JK Dobbins - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
D'Andre Swift - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
AJ Dillon - ~3/4 year as a starter in GB, low RB1 upside, mid-late RB2 or Flex upside after that elsewhere in the NFL.
Cam Akers - ~3 year floor, ceiling of ~10 year career. Close to a coin flip. RB1 ceiling.
Zack Moss - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Joshua Kelley - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Darrynton Evans - ~4 year as a backup. Possible starter for a year if DH moves on.
Eno Benjamin - Career backup, possible starter due to injury, trade immediately.
DeeJay Dallas - Career backup, possible flash as a starter, trade immediately.
Ke'Shawn Vaughn - Bust.

I appreciate this format. Finding just okay or good fantasy football players is easy. They are cheap to acquire by trade and are often available as one-week fill-ins on the waiver wire.

When looking at rookies, I tend not to care much if they will be a perennial depth-player on my roster who might start every once in a while. That's heading toward roster-clogging. Rather, I look for two things:

1) How high is his upside, and low is his downside?
2) What is the likelihood that either will be reached?

Mike offered both -- and added a third category: range of playable fantasy football years. And subtly added tiers in the color-coding for a fourth category.

I LOVE this. He's cutting out all the middle ranges, which is by almost always the most likely for any and every player. I, for one, value this much more than a flat-out ranking.

If I get a vote, then I would ask for this to be the default summary format moving forward with longer write-ups afterward. This is the summary / cheat-sheet that I want.

[FantasyFreak]

Here are some clarifications on my views of the RBs I ranked.

Clyde Edwards-Helaire - Long term back ~10 year career, bet on a slight under due to size. RB1 upside, top 5 upside.
Jonathan Taylor - Floor of ~3 years, ceiling of ~10 year career. Bet on the latter. RB1, top 5 upside.
JK Dobbins - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
D'Andre Swift - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
AJ Dillon - ~3/4 year as a starter in GB, low RB1 upside, mid-late RB2 or Flex upside after that elsewhere in the NFL.
Cam Akers - ~3 year floor, ceiling of ~10 year career. Close to a coin flip. RB1 ceiling.
Zack Moss - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Joshua Kelley - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Darrynton Evans - ~4 year as a backup. Possible starter for a year if DH moves on.
Eno Benjamin - Career backup, possible starter due to injury, trade immediately.
DeeJay Dallas - Career backup, possible flash as a starter, trade immediately.
Ke'Shawn Vaughn - Bust.

I appreciate this format. Finding just okay or good fantasy football players is easy. They are cheap to acquire by trade and are often available as one-week fill-ins on the waiver wire.

When looking at rookies, I tend not to care much if they will be a perennial depth-player on my roster who might start every once in a while. That's heading toward roster-clogging. Rather, I look for two things:

1) How high is his upside, and low is his downside?
2) What is the likelihood that either will be reached?

Mike offered both -- and added a third category: range of playable fantasy football years. And subtly added tiers in the color-coding for a fourth category.

I LOVE this. He's cutting out all the middle ranges, which is by almost always the most likely for any and every player. I, for one, value this much more than a flat-out ranking.

If I get a vote, then I would ask for this to be the default summary format moving forward with longer write-ups afterward. This is the summary / cheat-sheet that I want.

He openly took this from DD, so I think DD deserves a for that as well.

[moishetreats]

Here are some clarifications on my views of the RBs I ranked.

Clyde Edwards-Helaire - Long term back ~10 year career, bet on a slight under due to size. RB1 upside, top 5 upside.
Jonathan Taylor - Floor of ~3 years, ceiling of ~10 year career. Bet on the latter. RB1, top 5 upside.
JK Dobbins - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
D'Andre Swift - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
AJ Dillon - ~3/4 year as a starter in GB, low RB1 upside, mid-late RB2 or Flex upside after that elsewhere in the NFL.
Cam Akers - ~3 year floor, ceiling of ~10 year career. Close to a coin flip. RB1 ceiling.
Zack Moss - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Joshua Kelley - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Darrynton Evans - ~4 year as a backup. Possible starter for a year if DH moves on.
Eno Benjamin - Career backup, possible starter due to injury, trade immediately.
DeeJay Dallas - Career backup, possible flash as a starter, trade immediately.
Ke'Shawn Vaughn - Bust.

I appreciate this format. Finding just okay or good fantasy football players is easy. They are cheap to acquire by trade and are often available as one-week fill-ins on the waiver wire.

When looking at rookies, I tend not to care much if they will be a perennial depth-player on my roster who might start every once in a while. That's heading toward roster-clogging. Rather, I look for two things:

1) How high is his upside, and low is his downside?
2) What is the likelihood that either will be reached?

Mike offered both -- and added a third category: range of playable fantasy football years. And subtly added tiers in the color-coding for a fourth category.

I LOVE this. He's cutting out all the middle ranges, which is by almost always the most likely for any and every player. I, for one, value this much more than a flat-out ranking.

If I get a vote, then I would ask for this to be the default summary format moving forward with longer write-ups afterward. This is the summary / cheat-sheet that I want.

He openly took this from DD, so I think DD deserves a for that as well.

Thank you for the heads-up, @Fantasy Freak.

And thank you, @DynastyDelorean (I think you're the DD referred to, right?) for the format!

[FantasyFreak]

Thank you for the heads-up, @Fantasy Freak.

And thank you, @DynastyDelorean (I think you're the DD referred to, right?) for the format!

Correct.

[Factory of Sadness]

Tough one to parse, but let's have a go. Mike went too far with the bravado and is now trying to tone it down as he is no longer just a forum writer, but a DLF writer. Some posters are still irritated with his refusal to accept that he, like everyone else, is fallible. None of this would amount to more than a storm in a teacup but for certain credulous posters who rush to decide that anyone who has coached an 8 year old back in how to hold a football knows more than NFL teams.
How about we just read Mike's takes for what they are, which is thoughtful, careful, yet hyperbolic insights into each year's RB class? If Mike is willing to accept that being obviously wrong in the past isn't something that he needs to cover-up, but just an occupational hazard of speculating on the crapshoot that is the draft, that would be great. If those infuriated by his pretensions could give him a break, that would be great. If those who seek a dollar store guru to give them the edge over highly resourced NFL scouting departments could summon a bit of useful skepticism, that would be great too.
How about Mike offers his views, which have more nuance and insight than most, but doesn't pretend he is infallible and the rest of us enjoy a provocative opinion?

[alewilliam789]

This has nothing to do with it. Nobody is putting a gun to Mike's head. OCR can post what he wants. Regardless whether I agree with him or not, we're not here to police what other people can post, as long as they aren't personal attacks that don't deal with the subject matter, which these aren't. He's not obligated to avoid these threads. You can simply choose not to read his takes, or respond to them.

Policing my policing

Well, I'm just saying it's not right to try and censor him, which is what a few seem to be doing. I'm just trying to provide an alternative that doesn't result in trying to mute somebody. There is a "foe" option, which blocks you from having to read anything from a poster.

Let's not forget that Mike welcomes this stuff. He has said stuff like:

“I used to put several hours into a post just for it to die off in a matter of hours or a day if I was lucky. I found that bold takes and/or criticism towards my opinions keeps my topics alive."

Are you serious? He said this? What a troll! Keep going OCR we need to people to think more critically about their takes/opinions. Not just yell to be heard. I hear that bleep everyday when I listen to the president speak.

[alewilliam789]

Here are some clarifications on my views of the RBs I ranked.

Clyde Edwards-Helaire - Long term back ~10 year career, bet on a slight under due to size. RB1 upside, top 5 upside.
Jonathan Taylor - Floor of ~3 years, ceiling of ~10 year career. Bet on the latter. RB1, top 5 upside.
JK Dobbins - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
D'Andre Swift - Long term back ~10 year career. RB1 upside.
AJ Dillon - ~3/4 year as a starter in GB, low RB1 upside, mid-late RB2 or Flex upside after that elsewhere in the NFL.
Cam Akers - ~3 year floor, ceiling of ~10 year career. Close to a coin flip. RB1 ceiling.
Zack Moss - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Joshua Kelley - ~2-4 year career as RB2 or Flex. Backup after that.
Darrynton Evans - ~4 year as a backup. Possible starter for a year if DH moves on.
Eno Benjamin - Career backup, possible starter due to injury, trade immediately.
DeeJay Dallas - Career backup, possible flash as a starter, trade immediately.
Ke'Shawn Vaughn - Bust.

I appreciate this format. Finding just okay or good fantasy football players is easy. They are cheap to acquire by trade and are often available as one-week fill-ins on the waiver wire.

When looking at rookies, I tend not to care much if they will be a perennial depth-player on my roster who might start every once in a while. That's heading toward roster-clogging. Rather, I look for two things:

1) How high is his upside, and low is his downside?
2) What is the likelihood that either will be reached?

Mike offered both -- and added a third category: range of playable fantasy football years. And subtly added tiers in the color-coding for a fourth category.

I LOVE this. He's cutting out all the middle ranges, which is by almost always the most likely for any and every player. I, for one, value this much more than a flat-out ranking.

If I get a vote, then I would ask for this to be the default summary format moving forward with longer write-ups afterward. This is the summary / cheat-sheet that I want.

He openly took this from DD, so I think DD deserves a for that as well.

Yeah I was much more of a fan of DDs report tbh.

[sugbear65]

I can’t say I agree with all Mike has posted, said, or ranked. That’s fantasy football, of course we will have dissenting opinions.
I do give him credit for having the cojones to make his own rankings, and post them here for all to see, discuss, and mock. I know too many owners that don’t have an opinion on players that somebody else didn’t give them. They don’t do research, look at tape, take notes, etc. they just parrot whatever thoughts rotoworld or DLF or whichever source they use tells them to.
So while I don’t agree 100% with your rankings, and maybe I see different things than you do with some of these players, I do appreciate the time and courage to post them and open yourself up to the criticism. Is always helpful to get other opinions from a different set of eyes.

[OhCruelestRanter]

I can’t say I agree with all Mike has posted, said, or ranked. That’s fantasy football, of course we will have dissenting opinions.
I do give him credit for having the cojones to make his own rankings, and post them here for all to see, discuss, and mock. I know too many owners that don’t have an opinion on players that somebody else didn’t give them. They don’t do research, look at tape, take notes, etc. they just parrot whatever thoughts rotoworld or DLF or whichever source they use tells them to.
So while I don’t agree 100% with your rankings, and maybe I see different things than you do with some of these players, I do appreciate the time and courage to post them and open yourself up to the criticism. Is always helpful to get other opinions from a different set of eyes.

I mean, he’s getting paid for this, no?

[sugbear65]

I can’t say I agree with all Mike has posted, said, or ranked. That’s fantasy football, of course we will have dissenting opinions.
I do give him credit for having the cojones to make his own rankings, and post them here for all to see, discuss, and mock. I know too many owners that don’t have an opinion on players that somebody else didn’t give them. They don’t do research, look at tape, take notes, etc. they just parrot whatever thoughts rotoworld or DLF or whichever source they use tells them to.
So while I don’t agree 100% with your rankings, and maybe I see different things than you do with some of these players, I do appreciate the time and courage to post them and open yourself up to the criticism. Is always helpful to get other opinions from a different set of eyes.

I mean, he’s getting paid for this, no?

Pretty sure he’s been posting them for years before he ever started getting paid. Also doubt he gets paid for posting on the message boards. He could put them all up behind the paywall and not post them here, right?
Regardless, my point stands. I don’t get paid but I do all my own research, film study, and rankings. I enjoy it. It’s fine if you don’t. Either way it takes a lot of time and energy, especially if you are going to lay out your thought process and detail all your reasonings. So to pass them along for your benefits and also harassment, it is not nothing. I’ll tell you right now I wouldn’t give mine away. Not because they are any good or better, but because you can’t have my hard work for nothing but insults and questions. Lol so I say Kudos to Mike.