Jonathan Taylor is your 1.01 now.

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:05 pm

Bronco Billy wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 am
FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:36 am
dlf_mikeh wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 am
Also, you had Kalen Ballage over Nick Chubb in your year 1 rankings.

"I like Ballage. No wait, lemme say that again: I LOVE BALLAGE. I think he has a chance to take over the #1 job and run away as the surprise of the draft. I own Ballage in ever league I drafted in. It might not happen until 2019, but it'll happen." -your quote

"Ballage will win the starting job sooner than later, and will be viewed as the best steal in the draft. Ceiling could be number 2 RB from this class." -your quote
The Ballage posts aren't to be taken serious. I owned Ballage in a league and I was in trade talks with a guy for his future 1st. He was an avid user on this forum and loved my opinions, but didn't know that the user on these forums and the person he was negotiating with was the same person. I was trying to squeeze out the deal of a lifetime. He didn't pull the trigger. I kept at it thinking I could eventually get a 2nd. He didn't pull the trigger on that either. Someone else eventually did.
JHC

So you don’t miss except when you do, and when you do then retroactively it was just a joke so it doesn’t count.

Does anyone in here except you take you seriously?
Curious as to what happened here. Our quotes appear to be reversed.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby DJB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm

DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
...and yet I still see him knocked for his pass protection, seeing it even being called his worst trait.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:49 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
...and yet I still see him knocked for his pass protection, seeing it even being called his worst trait.
Just because he did it a decent amount doesn't necessarily mean he did it well. Basically the inverse of the Taylor receiving/pass pro argument, just because he wasn't asked to do it a lot doesn’t mean he was incapable.

I'm not saying Dobbins is bad at pass protection, I really don't know, but him averaging about 10 pass block reps per game doesn't automatically mean he did it well. A lot of those plays he probably didn't even have to do a whole lot, just stand guard in case the D sent an extra guy or on the rare occurance a defender got past their phenomenal OL.

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby DJB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:23 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
...and yet I still see him knocked for his pass protection, seeing it even being called his worst trait.
:wtf:

First thing I saw when I studied Dobbins was his pass protection and how good it was. To me hes the best pass protector of all the available RB's in the draft.

Those other people are crazy.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 05030?s=20

DJ had positive reviews of JT pass protection.
Last edited by DJB on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 pm

DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
The people that get Dobbins at 1.04-1.05 are going to be very, very happy. Again, why I'm confused as to why Taylor is viewed here as being significantly better...

Dobbins looks like the most complete RB in this class.

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby AussieMate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:25 pm

bjd5211 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:49 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
...and yet I still see him knocked for his pass protection, seeing it even being called his worst trait.
Just because he did it a decent amount doesn't necessarily mean he did it well. Basically the inverse of the Taylor receiving/pass pro argument, just because he wasn't asked to do it a lot doesn’t mean he was incapable.

I'm not saying Dobbins is bad at pass protection, I really don't know, but him averaging about 10 pass block reps per game doesn't automatically mean he did it well. A lot of those plays he probably didn't even have to do a whole lot, just stand guard in case the D sent an extra guy or on the rare occurance a defender got past their phenomenal OL.
Basically this^, i've heard a few places lately talk about how they don't even get taught proper pass protection in college, I've seen it written that scouts will look for willingness etc when it comes to pass blocking as technique can be taught. Also it being his worst trait doesn't mean he's bad if all his other traits are very good, Supermans worse ability is arguably his xray vision but thats still pretty damn handy (random but it was the first thing that came to mind)

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby cantguardjake » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:26 pm

Be careful commenting on pass protection around these parts :lol:

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby AussieMate » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:28 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
The people that get Dobbins at 1.04-1.05 are going to be very, very happy. Again, why I'm confused as to why Taylor is viewed here as being significantly better...

Dobbins looks like the most complete RB in this class.
It's the usual case of "your guy isn't my guy so he's crap" rather than "I think my guy is better but your guy is still pretty damn good as well"

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby DJB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:32 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
The people that get Dobbins at 1.04-1.05 are going to be very, very happy. Again, why I'm confused as to why Taylor is viewed here as being significantly better...

Dobbins looks like the most complete RB in this class.
Agreed 100%. I think hes the safest RB and has one of the highest floors. I'm not sure he has the highest ceiling I think that's probably one of Akers, Swift or JT.

But it doesn't matter to me. Dobbins is my #1 RB and I'm good with it. It also doesn't mean that I dislike any of the guys, I just like Dobbins a bit more.

No reason to crap on or hate the other guys even though you've planted your flag on a different guy.

Just my take though
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby DJB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:34 pm

Yeah Taylor has limited pass protection reps but it's not something I'm overly concerned with. It can be taught. Talent cannot.

I'm also not too concerned with his fumbling it's another issue that can be taught. Taylor also routinely saw 8 or more in the box because Wisconsin basically ran him on each first and 2nd down, the defenders all simply attacked the ball like a pack of hyenas and I routinely saw Taylor get tackled by multiple defenders at once.

His almost 1k touches is concerning somewhat but if I draft him I don't plan on holding him beyond his rookie contract anyways.

Side note. Deejay Dallas is another guy who's great at pass protection.
Last edited by DJB on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby Hottoddies » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:34 pm

DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
I'd be curious to hear what their definition of a pass block rep is. Are these successful blocks or just attempts? Is it when they actually engage a pass rusher or just in a position to do so? And what does being in position to pass block mean? Putting a quantitative number on a football action can be quite subjective at times and limited in value taken out of context.

Number of possible pass blocking reps might be:
1) Successfully stopping a pass rusher
2) Attempting to block a pass rusher
3) Staying in the backfield to pick up a possible pass rusher
4) Staying in the backfield until there are no pass rushers to pick up then releasing on a route
5) Momentarily pausing in the backfield before releasing on a route
6) chipping a pass rusher while going out on a route
7) Taking on a pass rusher after not taking a handoff on a play action
8) Stopping at the line of scrimmage after a play action fake to pick up any possible pass rushers
9) Accidentally contacting a defender after running beyond the line of scrimmage on a play action

I'm not a big fan of how PFF analyzes RBs. I get the impression from listening to a number of their podcasts that they don't really hold RBs in a very high regard. It seems like they see them as insignificant replaceable 2nd class citizens. I doubt that they put much effort into their analysis when it comes to RBs. As long as you have a high broken tackle rate and can run fast you'll do just fine.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:37 pm

Hottoddies wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:34 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
I'd be curious to hear what their definition of a pass block rep is. Are these successful blocks or just attempts? Is it when they actually engage a pass rusher or just in a position to do so? And what does being in position to pass block mean? Putting a quantitative number on a football action can be quite subjective at times and limited in value taken out of context.

Number of possible pass blocking reps might be:
1) Successfully stopping a pass rusher
2) Attempting to block a pass rusher
3) Staying in the backfield to pick up a possible pass rusher
4) Staying in the backfield until there are no pass rushers to pick up then releasing on a route
5) Momentarily pausing in the backfield before releasing on a route
6) chipping a pass rusher while going out on a route
7) Taking on a pass rusher after not taking a handoff on a play action
8) Stopping at the line of scrimmage after a play action fake to pick up any possible pass rushers
9) Accidentally contacting a defender after running beyond the line of scrimmage on a play action

I'm not a big fan of how PFF analyzes RBs. I get the impression from listening to a number of their podcasts that they don't really hold RBs in a very high regard. It seems like they see them as insignificant replaceable 2nd class citizens. I doubt that they put much effort into their analysis when it comes to RBs. As long as you have a high broken tackle rate and can run fast you'll do just fine.
That is true to an extent though.

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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:04 pm

DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:23 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 83616?s=20

Here are the numbers. PFF credited Taylor with 32 pass block reps this year.

Dobbins had 148.
...and yet I still see him knocked for his pass protection, seeing it even being called his worst trait.
:wtf:

First thing I saw when I studied Dobbins was his pass protection and how good it was. To me hes the best pass protector of all the available RB's in the draft.

Those other people are crazy.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 05030?s=20

DJ had positive reviews of JT pass protection.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jk-d ... 2u6ng2TpDH

This isn't the only person I've heard knock his pass pro. Subjectivity is a real thing. I love Dobbins, I started the thread about him being the possible 1.01, but I don't think he has the ceiling JT does, that's for sure. If Taylor hits, he's the top player in this class.
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Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby DJB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:23 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:04 pm
DJB wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:23 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:30 pm

...and yet I still see him knocked for his pass protection, seeing it even being called his worst trait.
:wtf:

First thing I saw when I studied Dobbins was his pass protection and how good it was. To me hes the best pass protector of all the available RB's in the draft.

Those other people are crazy.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/statu ... 05030?s=20

DJ had positive reviews of JT pass protection.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jk-d ... 2u6ng2TpDH

This isn't the only person I've heard knock his pass pro. Subjectivity is a real thing. I love Dobbins, I started the thread about him being the possible 1.01, but I don't think he has the ceiling JT does, that's for sure. If Taylor hits, he's the top player in this class.
That's fair and nor everyone is going to agree or see the same things.

And I agree on ceiling like I mentioned it earlier. JT and Swift have and I could argue Akers possibly too has a higher ceiling than Dobbins. But I still love JK.
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