Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the NFL & Fantasy

[Tvols]

So the best defense weakness is just plugging in a RB who can pass is what you are saying?

sure ... he is a great scorer and rb ,qb na .. but then again I believe a QB can pass not a rb behind center.. He is not very good as a passer and if you think so then I m sorry.can he improve sure but History suggest they are who they are.. he will get you good scores for the next couple of years but when it comes down to passing unless he improves greatly he wont be getting the job done. Then again I think football is a team game and i saw more the team last night than i did an outstanding QB..

Pretty amazed so many get locked into what they think makes a good QB.

Lamar is 12-4 and redefining the position within his skill set. Their staff is doing an outstanding job playing to his strengths. Lamar made GREAT reads on a zero blitz for a big gain on 3rd down and dropped a dime on a 4th down throw.

No QB in the league could have made those two plays any better.

My take is if you didn’t see great play last night then you might consider cleaning your glasses.

lol redefining yeah right .. I didnt say he wasnt getting the job done just not a good passer.. If you want a RB for a QB enjoy.. cause he is doing an outstanding job..

[Ice]

@FantasyFreak

Stick around, I suspect you will see soon enough.

He is on pace to smash records. One can count on one hand since the SB era the QB’s that have done anything thing close to what Lamar has done.

I was watching Vick today saying he would be first in line to congratulate him when he smashes his records.

[mild]

I agree that Lamar is playing well, and he doesn't need to be an elite passer with his running skill set. He's a dual threat QB, and a very good one. Jackson isn't "redefining" anything, though.

What Ice said above. He is firmly in the race to be the MVP. He might break Vick's rushing record by the 3/4 mark of the season. He has back-to-back wins over two bonafide Playoff teams in his last two games. He is putting his team on his back, and he is the best player on his team.

But most of all: he (and the Ravens staff) are showing other teams that if you build around a talent like this, you *can* make it work. The entire league passed on him in 2018. (The Ravens even took a TE before him!) And He is showing every one of those teams that they. made. a. mistake.

Even in RG3's one magical rookie season, there were constant rumblings that the management preferred Kurt Cousins (lol) - they were still trying to make RG3 fit *their* traditional idea of a pocket QB, rather than leaning in to what made him unique and building around him. (They were also the Deadskins, and they grossly mismanaged his health in that playoff run - I firmly believe he was never the same as a result)

This is 100% a redefinition of the status quo. If you can't see that, then as Ice said - stick around for a bit, help yourself to a drink from the bar... maybe dip your toe in... the water is fine.

[FantasyFreak]

I agree that Lamar is playing well, and he doesn't need to be an elite passer with his running skill set. He's a dual threat QB, and a very good one. Jackson isn't "redefining" anything, though.

What Ice said above. He is firmly in the race to be the MVP. He might break Vick's rushing record by the 3/4 mark of the season. He has back-to-back wins over two bonafide Playoff teams in his last two games. He is putting his team on his back, and he is the best player on his team.

But most of all: he (and the Ravens staff) are showing other teams that if you build around a talent like this, you *can* make it work. The entire league passed on him in 2018. (The Ravens even took a TE before him!) And He is showing every one of those teams that they. made. a. mistake.

Even in RG3's one magical rookie season, there were constant rumblings that the management preferred Kurt Cousins (lol) - they were still trying to make RG3 fit *their* traditional idea of a pocket QB, rather than leaning in to what made him unique and building around him. (They were also the Deadskins, and they grossly mismanaged his health in that playoff run - I firmly believe he was never the same as a result)

This is 100% a redefinition of the status quo. If you can't see that, then as Ice said - stick around for a bit, help yourself to a drink from the bar... maybe dip your toe in... the water is fine.

Breaking the single season rushing mark for a QB doesn't qualify as "redefining the position", to me. Didn't say anything about Lamar not being good. He is in the MVP race, no doubt, but still well behind RW, in that race, IMO.

[bjd5211]

I would say he is redefining the position because he is the first "running QB" being given the opportunity to run an offense that is being tailored to his skillset, rather than the team trying to mold him into a traditional type of offense and QB role and just letting him run out of that.

[Ice]

By redefining, we are seeing a Qb above 63% on track to be around 3000 yards passing and well over 1000 rushing with far more creative schemes than anything Vick ever dreamed of.

Vick had one season in 12 where he threw over 60% with 70 plus attempts.

We have seen a few try to do what Lamar does but in reality he is a drop back passer with a lot of exotic designed run here to fore we have only seen in college.

You can disagree with the characterization I guess but what we are actually seeing is transformative.

Time will tell if this style catches on but Lamar is extremely rare. We simply haven’t seen his combination of size and skill sets at such a young age.

Think he actually has the 6th highest QBR in the NFL this season.

[Jigga94]

Anyone want to calculate Lamar's FPPT as a RB?

Maybe then we can split the QB numbers too and decide what he's better at. Maybe we can even let the Ravens decide where they should play him

Edit: maybe we can see how many of his rushes end up OOB vs under a pile. A RB has to have a lower % of that

[FantasyFreak]

By redefining, we are seeing a Qb above 63% on track to be around 3000 yards passing and well over 1000 rushing with far more creative schemes than anything Vick ever dreamed of.

Vick had one season in 12 where he threw over 60% with 70 plus attempts.

We have seen a few try to do what Lamar does but in reality he is a drop back passer with a lot of exotic designed run here to fore we have only seen in college.

You can disagree with the characterization I guess but what we are actually seeing is transformative.

Time will tell if this style catches on but Lamar is extremely rare. We simply haven’t seen his combination of size and skill sets at such a young age.

Think he actually has the 6th highest QBR in the NFL this season.

First off, any passing stats being compared from now to Vick's era need to be taken with a grain of salt. The reality is, it's just easier to rack up passing yards now with the way the rules have changed. I am not saying Vick was better, just that it's not new that there is a player like this, although he is rare. The thing that they may redefine, is his usage, as I think he may be on pace to break the rushing attempts record, as well. He's already had 99 attempts, and they seem to be increasing. The last 3 games. 19, 14, 16.

Someone was commenting about him being a running back, which obviously isn't true, but those are RB type carry numbers. Maybe the Ravens see Jackson as a 1 contract QB, and are just going to throw caution to the wind on his rookie deal. The amount of rushes will almost certainly lead to an injury, IMO, and I don't see this usage in the run game being sustainable long term, but I don't think the Ravens care about long term with him at the moment.

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.

[mild]

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.

Disagree. This is getting boring. Lets move on.

[bjd5211]

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.

That is what Lamar is doing though, none of those guys were used like Lamar is being. The plan with them was always to use them as and mold them into traditional QBs, and allow them to use their legs when plays broke down and very seldomy would put in designed and intentional runs. The way Lamar is playing and being used is not something we have seen before at anywhere near this volume. It's why he still gets so much skepticism because the position has never been played this way before.

[FantasyFreak]

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.

Disagree. This is getting boring. Lets move on.

Go right ahead and move on. I wasn't even quoting you.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat.

Yeah, peoples memories are really short. It's like how Mahomes would throw for 50+ td's a year except people forget about injuries and everything else. Jackson started out hot and had me reconsidering just how good he could be but his passing (in terms of yardage) has gotten progressively worse throughout the year.

edit: no designed runs for RGIII? What is the person above me smoking lmao...

[djeternal2]

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.

That is what Lamar is doing though, none of those guys were used like Lamar is being. The plan with them was always to use them as and mold them into traditional QBs, and allow them to use their legs when plays broke down and very seldomy would put in designed and intentional runs. The way Lamar is playing and being used is not something we have seen before at anywhere near this volume. It's why he still gets so much skepticism because the position has never been played this way before.

So if Lamar is redefining the QB position we should see QBs going forward to be getting 15-20 carries/game?

[bjd5211]

We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat.

Yeah, peoples memories are really short. It's like how Mahomes would throw for 50+ td's a year except people forget about injuries and everything else. Jackson started out hot and had me reconsidering just how good he could be but his passing (in terms of yardage) has gotten progressively worse throughout the year.

edit: no designed runs for RGIII? What is the person above me smoking lmao...

Not to the degree that Lamar is getting them. All those guys had some of that stuff built into the offense, but that's not what the offense was built around. The Baltimore offense is designed to specifically fit Lamar's talents, those other offenses were traditional offenses with wrinkles added in.

[bjd5211]

To me, when you say somebody is redefining the position, and being transformative, it would necessitate something new or progressive that has not been seen, or implemented. We had 3 guys in Wilson,RG3 and Kaep in 1 year really shake the NFL up with being dual threat. Lamar is certainly a QB with elite running skills and is a decent to good passer, but he isn't changing the game and position forever, and how it's viewed or anything.

That is what Lamar is doing though, none of those guys were used like Lamar is being. The plan with them was always to use them as and mold them into traditional QBs, and allow them to use their legs when plays broke down and very seldomy would put in designed and intentional runs. The way Lamar is playing and being used is not something we have seen before at anywhere near this volume. It's why he still gets so much skepticism because the position has never been played this way before.

So if Lamar is redefining the QB position we should see QBs going forward to be getting 15-20 carries/game?

It's not going to happen over night, but perhaps as more athletes like Lamar are given the opportunity to play QB coming up rather than being forced to move to RB/WR/DB.