DK Metcalf is your 1.01 now.

[whodunnit]

Ravens working him out. How awesome would that be? A one trick WR with a QB that can't throw the ball to him?

[TB3falcons]

He is more in the mold of Julio or Calvin.

D.k has a huge catch radius to go with sub 4.4 speed. His stud potential should be obvious to anyone.

If anyone around here studies DB’s much, I challenge you to find 5 that have the skill set to shut him down. Hint, there are 2.

Trying to compare him to C. Patterson has to be a joke.

He's not on their level at all. Maybe CJ2K's athletically, but he has a ways to go imo to reach those heights. But Julio is on another level as an athlete. Yea, DK has speed and ups, but Julio has elite agility as well.

[Cameron Giles]

I am so bored of talking about his agility scores. Hardly any of the other big guys of recent years even have agility scores because they don't run the damn drills. Your starting assumption about any big WR of recent vintage that didn't run the 3 cone needs to be that he tried it in practice and it was very, very bad. Boykin ran it and nailed it in 6.77. It's a very safe bet that Harry and Butler would have been bad when they tried it or they would probably have run it at the Combine. Once we're clear that Metcalf's 3 cone is historically bad amongst people WHO HAVE CHOSEN TO RUN THE DRILL, we can move onto the fact that running around 3 cones is not an exact, objective, transferable measurement and then we can talk about Metcalf.

He has a super-high ceiling because he is big, fast and looks to have the game to defeat press- which is the first question about any WR prospect. Ole Miss ran a true Betamax scheme though and Metcalf- whether through time lost to injury or to a lack of route running talent - did not develop as a route runner in anything like the way that AJ Brown did. So he will need a lot of development.

I'm making my call on him once I know where he's going. If it's Pittsburgh, I'm taking him at 1.01. If it's the Titans I'm not drafting him until all the really promising kickers are gone.

QB will be important as for all WRs, but I'd want to feel good with who is tasked with doing the actual development- both in terms of the position coach teaching the skills and the Co-ordinator or Head Coach deciding how to use him. This goes from the screamingly obvious of Belichick, Turner, Payton Shanahan yes and Gase and Harbaugh no, right down to looking at who seems to be getting it right in less obvious ways. The Bills did a great job with the talent they had last year I thought and there seems to be a guiding intelligence about that team right now, so I'd be OK with them.

Metcalf could honestly be my 1.01 in the perfect spot or so far down my board as to make it impossible I'd ever pick him if he goes to a spot where he'll be left to flounder.

Two things:

1. Metcalf's 3-cone was historically bad. He ranked 2nd percentile all time for WRs. There are a few players who ran the drill poorly and had great careers, but their skill sets are completely different from Metcalf.

2. Even if you want to ignore #1, it merely confirms what we see on tape. Metcalf is slow when he stops/starts and it's a major reason why he's limited in the routes he can run. He's a raw route runner and has a ways to go.

To me, being big and fast isn't enough. The best receivers are at the level they are because they understand and win with the technical craft necessary for the position. Their athletic traits merely enhance those detailed aspects. This is why big and fast receivers like DGB, Heyward-Bey, Parker, Perriman and countless other size/speed prospects failed. Technical ability is why Adam Thielen is a monster despite having significantly less natural talent than the names I mentioned.

[dawgs4life]

Two things:
1. Metcalf's 3-cone was historically bad. He ranked 2nd percentile all time for WRs. There are a few players who ran the drill poorly and had great careers, but their skill sets are completely different from Metcalf.

2. Even if you want to ignore #1, it merely confirms what we see on tape. Metcalf is slow when he stops/starts and it's a major reason why he's limited in the routes he can run. He's a raw route runner and has a ways to go.

To me, being big and fast isn't enough. The best receivers are at the level they are because they understand and win with the technical craft necessary for the position. Their athletic traits merely enhance those detailed aspects. This is why big and fast receivers like DGB, Heyward-Bey, Parker, Perriman and countless other size/speed prospects failed. Technical ability is why Adam Thielen is a monster despite having significantly less natural talent than the names I mentioned.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I reposted. I just used C-patt and Gordon as examples. All the guys listed here have not succeeded imo.

Other than Gordon do we have any examples of WRs with bad agility drills excelling to WR1 in the NFL?

[Cameron Giles]

This is exactly what I was thinking when I reposted. I just used C-patt and Gordon as examples. All the guys listed here have not succeeded imo.

Other than Gordon do we have any examples of WRs with bad agility drills excelling to WR1 in the NFL?

Jarvis Landry and Anquan Boldin are the only two that I can find with a percentile that low who became WR1 players. But again, completely different skill sets and basically anomalies.

Josh Gordon doesn't have a 3 cone on record, but he's also closer to an anomaly as a supplemental draft pick who had an extremely unlikely early career arc.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Other than Gordon do we have any examples of WRs with bad agility drills excelling to WR1 in the NFL?

Maybe read the last couple of pages.

[Ice]

He is more in the mold of Julio or Calvin.

D.k has a huge catch radius to go with sub 4.4 speed. His stud potential should be obvious to anyone.

If anyone around here studies DB’s much, I challenge you to find 5 that have the skill set to shut him down. Hint, there are 2.

Trying to compare him to C. Patterson has to be a joke.

He's not on their level at all. Maybe CJ2K's athletically, but he has a ways to go imo to reach those heights. But Julio is on another level as an athlete. Yea, DK has speed and ups, but Julio has elite agility as well.

As an athlete, D.k is faster, can jump higher, and is stronger.

We can split hairs on athletics but if you go there D.K will actually check more boxes.

Obviously, as a receiver he is not at his level today but then again Julio is far better today than he was when he turned pro.

D.K. Should also get much better with time, work, and maturity.

[Ice]

Two things:
1. Metcalf's 3-cone was historically bad. He ranked 2nd percentile all time for WRs. There are a few players who ran the drill poorly and had great careers, but their skill sets are completely different from Metcalf.

2. Even if you want to ignore #1, it merely confirms what we see on tape. Metcalf is slow when he stops/starts and it's a major reason why he's limited in the routes he can run. He's a raw route runner and has a ways to go.

To me, being big and fast isn't enough. The best receivers are at the level they are because they understand and win with the technical craft necessary for the position. Their athletic traits merely enhance those detailed aspects. This is why big and fast receivers like DGB, Heyward-Bey, Parker, Perriman and countless other size/speed prospects failed. Technical ability is why Adam Thielen is a monster despite having significantly less natural talent than the names I mentioned.

Pick a specific route that 3 cone matters.

I will spot you a 10 yard curl with press coverage.

12 yard slant..: nope
Deep post.... nope
Fly or wheel.... nope
Bubble screen.... nope
Out route... nope

I have heard your arguments and asked several a few times for but get none from a route perspective.

They key to good big WR’s is the ability to hit 2nd gear in a route. Vertical or broad jump will show the explosion needed to succeed.

Eccentric muscle movement for his type simply isn’t that important.

[Cameron Giles]

Two things:
1. Metcalf's 3-cone was historically bad. He ranked 2nd percentile all time for WRs. There are a few players who ran the drill poorly and had great careers, but their skill sets are completely different from Metcalf.

2. Even if you want to ignore #1, it merely confirms what we see on tape. Metcalf is slow when he stops/starts and it's a major reason why he's limited in the routes he can run. He's a raw route runner and has a ways to go.

To me, being big and fast isn't enough. The best receivers are at the level they are because they understand and win with the technical craft necessary for the position. Their athletic traits merely enhance those detailed aspects. This is why big and fast receivers like DGB, Heyward-Bey, Parker, Perriman and countless other size/speed prospects failed. Technical ability is why Adam Thielen is a monster despite having significantly less natural talent than the names I mentioned.

Pick a specific route that 3 cone matters.

I will spot you a 10 yard curl with press coverage.

12 yard slant..: nope
Deep post.... nope
Fly or wheel.... nope
Bubble screen.... nope
Out route... nope

I have heard your arguments and asked several a few times for but get none from a route perspective.

They key to good big WR’s is the ability to hit 2nd gear in a route. Vertical or broad jump will show the explosion needed to succeed.

Eccentric muscle movement for his type simply isn’t that important.

Again, the 3 cone is merely a statistical confirmation of what is visible on tape. You can ignore that number and focus what's strictly on tape. Metcalf can not run a wide range of routes successfully because he takes too long to get in and out of his break. He's a heavy footed, straight line player. There are obviously routes where elite straight line speed is tremendous to have, but complete route running needs sharper footwork and better change of direction speed to create separation.

Most of the routes you named do not require much in the stop and start category. Metcalf lacks three of the things I covet in WRs:

- Sharp and quick footwork
- Separation Ability/Potential
- Route diversity

So, if I had a pick I would not select him. Not because I think he will be useless, but because I think he will be limited in skill and faces a steep climb to mastering the traits I think make good receivers.

[Ice]

Most of the routes you named do not require much in the stop and start category. Metcalf lacks three of the things I covet in WRs:

- Sharp and quick footwork
- Separation Ability/Potential
- Route diversity

So, if I had a pick I would not select him. Not because I think he will be useless, but because I think he will be limited in skill and faces a steep climb to mastering the traits I think make good receivers.

I can respect that viewpoint. I don’t actually agree with some given several routes he runs very well but based on your criteria for fantasy I can appreciate the perspective.

I will say separation is certainly not an issue in press or off coverage which is what the scouts will weigh heavily as opposed to short area quickness.

I actually look at your metrics when evaluating a slot type player that also shows ability on jet sweep type plays.

D.K. Is certainly not a T. Hill type. My #2 WR certainly is!

[Phaded]

The comparisons to Julio & Calvin need to stop and it is clear nobody in the NFL feels this way either.

Calvin went #2 overall.
Julio went #6 overall.

There is barely even any top 10 buzz on Metcalf and most analysts have him in the 20s.

As a prospect; Metcalf is an athletic freak but he is not close to Calvin or Julio.

There is a massive difference between being a great athlete and a great receiver. Something that people who have been doing this long enough should know.

Metcalf is a great athlete but far from a great receiver. Can he develop into one? Time will tell.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Well there are two things that will make him a great receiver, hands and routes. And he has the hands already. Dude knows how to catch a football. Will he improve his routes? My guess is yes. It's easier to add a few routes than to improve your hands, something some of the other big/fast dudes needed to do, but couldn't.

[Ice]

The comparisons to Julio & Calvin need to stop and it is clear nobody in the NFL feels this way either.

Calvin went #2 overall.
Julio went #6 overall.

There is barely even any top 10 buzz on Metcalf and most analysts have him in the 20s.

As a prospect; Metcalf is an athletic freak but he is not close to Calvin or Julio.

There is a massive difference between being a great athlete and a great receiver. Something that people who have been doing this long enough should know.

Metcalf is a great athlete but far from a great receiver. Can he develop into one? Time will tell.

I certainly think on this website no one wants to think that but he has been compared to Julio often outside this forum.

Michael Irvin, a HOF Wr, as just one example, thinks D.K. could be the next Julio.

Calvin was the master of 4 routes as a professional and one simply has to google D.K. Compares to Calvin Johnson to find plenty of takes.

The caveat here is we all know what those players actually did as a professional. Only time will tell if D.K. really matures into a great WR. Today, its all about potential. The odds are against him turning into a great like those obviously but ignoring the potential isn't the way to approach this player IMO. His skill sets are extremely rare for a player his size.

People seems to think Julio coming out was already a great NFL WR. No; He was a rookie that became great overtime.

I specifically pounded the table for Julio as the best in class when he was bashed much like D.K. for route running and inconsistent hands. He went 2nd WR in fantasy drafts behind AJ Green but it was a pretty weak draft for fantasy.

Obviously, I have no problem comping his raw athletic ability to Julio because he exceeds him in many categories and flashes his functional strength on tape. As another example; He is way better athletically than a Mike Evans who went 7th in 2014 and has turned out to be pretty good. Evans was pedestrian in his 40, vertical, and lift. His 3 cone was nothing special either. He is used appropriate to his skill set as a pro which is what coaches do at this level.

While D.K may never be Julio on the field, there is a good chance he exceeds Evans which is where I personally put his floor at the NFL level.

Here are 3 reports on Julio from back in the day. (All mention route running as a weakness)

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jul ... id=2495454
https://www.sbnation.com/2011/1/25/1950 ... ing-report
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingrepo ... s_greg.php

Regardless if you agree, Scouting players IMO is all about potential for the draft. Teams will comp players against what they did on college tape and confirm based on the combine regardless of tape volume and interviews. Teams will project that ability and if a team thinks a player like Metcalf has that potential he will go in the first round. The actual draft slot will depend on the strength of the draft. This draft looks loaded with defensive pro bowl types so he could fall some but I still think he is a top 10 talent.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Where to do you guys rank his hands on scale of 1-10?

[Ice]

Where to do you guys rank his hands on scale of 1-10?

8 of 10.

He flashes the extraordinary like Hopkins but occasionally drops an easy one due to concentration. As he improves his concentration he could approach Hopkins someday but work is needed. Hand size is 9 7/8 which is prototype size. Julio's 9.75 and Evans are 9 5/8 as an example. Hopkins hand size is 10.08.... He is a freak and I rate him 10/10. Fitz probably had the best hands ever IMO and his mitts are a crazy 10.5 inches.