Josh Allen - Time to Believe!

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
ImaRounder
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby ImaRounder » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:02 pm

tresskid84 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:53 pm Also only completing 58% of passes thrown between 0-9 yards of the LOS so far this season . . . typically that number should be close to 80%
None of this matters. Literally, not a single statistic that brought up matters. He went into minnesota and got a W.

tresskid84
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Josh Allen

Postby tresskid84 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:00 pm

ImaRounder wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:02 pm
tresskid84 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:53 pm Also only completing 58% of passes thrown between 0-9 yards of the LOS so far this season . . . typically that number should be close to 80%
None of this matters. Literally, not a single statistic that brought up matters. He went into minnesota and got a W.
Lol, context doesn't matter at all, as long as your defense wins games for you
2021-Orphan Rebuild, 12tm PPR, SF, 1.75 TE Prem
2 SF, 8 Flex

QB: Mayfield, Z Wilson, D Jones, Heinicke, Rudolph, Foles
RB: Herbert, Felton, Evans, Nwangwu, Calais
WR: D Smith, Waddle, Chark, J Palmer, D P-J, Raymond, Washington, Jauan, Darden, Fehoko, Smith-Marsette, C Johnson, Proche, Shi Smith, A Tate, ESB, JJAW
TE: O'Shaughnessy, Moreau, Granson, Tyree J, Hu Bryant, Hopkins, Fortson
2022 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.11, 2.01, 2.09, and 3.02
2023 Picks: six 1sts, my 2nd

2021-Orphan Rebuild, 16tm PPR, SF, 1.5pr TE, DEVY:
1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 SF, 3 Flex
Draft is rookies and devy (only 2022 NFL eligible)

QB: Tua, Fields, Brissett, Foles, Purdy(D), T Morgan(D)
RB: Etienne, Gainwell, Homer, T Jones, J Hill, Ragas, Sargent, Calais, Funk,
WR: Cephus, Nico, J Palmer, Gage, Quez, P Williams, JJAW, Strachan, Proche, Lil'Jordan, Shi Smith, Fryfogle(D)
TE: Moreau, Maxx, H Long, RSJ, Tyree J
2022 Picks: 1.02, 2.02, 2.12, 3.02, 3.07, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12, 3.15, 4.01, 4.02, 4.05, 4.07, 4.12, 4.15

JoshGordonsDealer
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:51 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby JoshGordonsDealer » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:44 am

tresskid84 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:00 pm
ImaRounder wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:02 pm
tresskid84 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:53 pm Also only completing 58% of passes thrown between 0-9 yards of the LOS so far this season . . . typically that number should be close to 80%
None of this matters. Literally, not a single statistic that brought up matters. He went into minnesota and got a W.
Lol, context doesn't matter at all, as long as your defense wins games for you
Josh was out there playing Linebacker, Cornerback, the whole deal.

Ice
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6590
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 6:17 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby Ice » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:54 am

tresskid84 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:00 pm
ImaRounder wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:02 pm
tresskid84 wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:53 pm Also only completing 58% of passes thrown between 0-9 yards of the LOS so far this season . . . typically that number should be close to 80%
None of this matters. Literally, not a single statistic that brought up matters. He went into minnesota and got a W.
Lol, context doesn't matter at all, as long as your defense wins games for you
Haters gonna Hate.

Twp dropped TD's.
A pro quality look off for an easy touch pass TD.
Leaping tall LB's in a single bound.
Flying to the pylon for a rushing TD.
Rushing for another after a dropped TD.

Yep Haters gonna Hate no matter what eyes see especially against a SB contending team on the road no less.

It is a team game no doubt and the defense looked stout but the best player on the field between these two teams last week was Allen easily.

He won the game with his intellect, arm, and feet.

The haters might want reevaluate and enjoy watching this player develop.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts

JoshGordonsDealer
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2111
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:51 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby JoshGordonsDealer » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am

I absolutely hate that one can't point out context without being labeled "a hater."

I like Josh Allen. I don't think one good game makes him the second coming of Christ and erases his history of accuracy issues. I'm not saying he won't succeed, just that he's not all the sudden a QB1 for me.

ImaRounder
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby ImaRounder » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am

JoshGordonsDealer wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am I absolutely hate that one can't point out context without being labeled "a hater."

I like Josh Allen. I don't think one good game makes him the second coming of Christ and erases his history of accuracy issues. I'm not saying he won't succeed, just that he's not all the sudden a QB1 for me.
My issues are with the people that said he couldnt succeed. That he was at the same level as lauletta. That he was a third round SF rookie pick because his completion percentage in JUCO. In that one game, he proved all of them wrong.

ericanadian
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6519
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby ericanadian » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:26 pm

ImaRounder wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am
JoshGordonsDealer wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am I absolutely hate that one can't point out context without being labeled "a hater."

I like Josh Allen. I don't think one good game makes him the second coming of Christ and erases his history of accuracy issues. I'm not saying he won't succeed, just that he's not all the sudden a QB1 for me.
My issues are with the people that said he couldnt succeed. That he was at the same level as lauletta. That he was a third round SF rookie pick because his completion percentage in JUCO. In that one game, he proved all of them wrong.
I said that no one with the accuracy rates he had in college has been successful before and while it was not impossible for him to succeed, I would let someone else take the risk. The fact that he beat the odds doesn't bother me. I much prefer the guys that go downfield to the dink and dunk nonsense the NFL has started to become.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker

tresskid84
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Josh Allen

Postby tresskid84 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:49 pm

ImaRounder wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am
JoshGordonsDealer wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am I absolutely hate that one can't point out context without being labeled "a hater."

I like Josh Allen. I don't think one good game makes him the second coming of Christ and erases his history of accuracy issues. I'm not saying he won't succeed, just that he's not all the sudden a QB1 for me.
My issues are with the people that said he couldnt succeed. That he was at the same level as lauletta. That he was a third round SF rookie pick because his completion percentage in JUCO. In that one game, he proved all of them wrong.
And did the game before against the Chargers prove them all right when he was downright awful? I'm actually cheering for the kid to be successful, but seeing all the excuses for this kid just gets me going, haha. I still feel today the same I did before the draft, he has a lot of great tools and seems like a great kid, easy to root for, but his consistency, decision making, and accuracy still concern me. The past two weeks are basically a perfect encapsulation of that, was AWFUL against San Diego, played very well against Minnesota (was the best player on the Bills offense, was NOT the best player on the field. Though he played well, their defense was the MVP of that game). If he can string a few games together with better consistency, I will GLADLY come on here and eat crow, because again, I'm cheering for the kid.
2021-Orphan Rebuild, 12tm PPR, SF, 1.75 TE Prem
2 SF, 8 Flex

QB: Mayfield, Z Wilson, D Jones, Heinicke, Rudolph, Foles
RB: Herbert, Felton, Evans, Nwangwu, Calais
WR: D Smith, Waddle, Chark, J Palmer, D P-J, Raymond, Washington, Jauan, Darden, Fehoko, Smith-Marsette, C Johnson, Proche, Shi Smith, A Tate, ESB, JJAW
TE: O'Shaughnessy, Moreau, Granson, Tyree J, Hu Bryant, Hopkins, Fortson
2022 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.11, 2.01, 2.09, and 3.02
2023 Picks: six 1sts, my 2nd

2021-Orphan Rebuild, 16tm PPR, SF, 1.5pr TE, DEVY:
1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 SF, 3 Flex
Draft is rookies and devy (only 2022 NFL eligible)

QB: Tua, Fields, Brissett, Foles, Purdy(D), T Morgan(D)
RB: Etienne, Gainwell, Homer, T Jones, J Hill, Ragas, Sargent, Calais, Funk,
WR: Cephus, Nico, J Palmer, Gage, Quez, P Williams, JJAW, Strachan, Proche, Lil'Jordan, Shi Smith, Fryfogle(D)
TE: Moreau, Maxx, H Long, RSJ, Tyree J
2022 Picks: 1.02, 2.02, 2.12, 3.02, 3.07, 3.10, 3.11, 3.12, 3.15, 4.01, 4.02, 4.05, 4.07, 4.12, 4.15

User avatar
notweswelker
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby notweswelker » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:44 pm

tresskid84 wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:49 pm And did the game before against the Chargers prove them all right when he was downright awful? I'm actually cheering for the kid to be successful, but seeing all the excuses for this kid just gets me going, haha. I still feel today the same I did before the draft, he has a lot of great tools and seems like a great kid, easy to root for, but his consistency, decision making, and accuracy still concern me. The past two weeks are basically a perfect encapsulation of that, was AWFUL against San Diego, played very well against Minnesota (was the best player on the Bills offense, was NOT the best player on the field. Though he played well, their defense was the MVP of that game). If he can string a few games together with better consistency, I will GLADLY come on here and eat crow, because again, I'm cheering for the kid.
If he can string a few good games together with that O-line and receiving corps he might be the reincarnation of Christ. I said this earlier in the thread but I can't judge him this season, that team needs an influx of talent next off-season before I'd feel fair judging him. Mahomes gets to step into a damn Ferrari with a top O-line, top RB, top coach, 3 star WRs, Kelce, and a year to watch. Allen is basically out there by himself making magic out of manure whilst running for his life and saving orphans in Buffalo. I doubt even Tom Brady could play well on that team.

Ice
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6590
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 6:17 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby Ice » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:56 pm

ericanadian wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:26 pm
ImaRounder wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am
JoshGordonsDealer wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am I absolutely hate that one can't point out context without being labeled "a hater."

I like Josh Allen. I don't think one good game makes him the second coming of Christ and erases his history of accuracy issues. I'm not saying he won't succeed, just that he's not all the sudden a QB1 for me.
My issues are with the people that said he couldnt succeed. That he was at the same level as lauletta. That he was a third round SF rookie pick because his completion percentage in JUCO. In that one game, he proved all of them wrong.
I said that no one with the accuracy rates he had in college has been successful before and while it was not impossible for him to succeed, I would let someone else take the risk. The fact that he beat the odds doesn't bother me. I much prefer the guys that go downfield to the dink and dunk nonsense the NFL has started to become.
If you said "No One with the accuracy rates he had in college has been successful before" then here are a couple for you to ponder:

The most recent with sub 60% completion percentage is M. Stafford who went #1 overall. Brett Favre had a way worse completion percentage in college and just this past Sunday Drew Brees finally broke his all time record of 6,300 completions.

The one thing you should like about Allen is he is the embodiment of the down the field passer.

Obviously, he needs to develop but his upside is through the roof and that upside wass on full display this past Sunday.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts

User avatar
Bot101
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4695
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby Bot101 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:24 pm

I’m rooting for the kid. I like his grit.

ericanadian
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6519
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby ericanadian » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:15 am

Ice wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:56 pm
ericanadian wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:26 pm
ImaRounder wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am

My issues are with the people that said he couldnt succeed. That he was at the same level as lauletta. That he was a third round SF rookie pick because his completion percentage in JUCO. In that one game, he proved all of them wrong.
I said that no one with the accuracy rates he had in college has been successful before and while it was not impossible for him to succeed, I would let someone else take the risk. The fact that he beat the odds doesn't bother me. I much prefer the guys that go downfield to the dink and dunk nonsense the NFL has started to become.
If you said "No One with the accuracy rates he had in college has been successful before" then here are a couple for you to ponder:

The most recent with sub 60% completion percentage is M. Stafford who went #1 overall. Brett Favre had a way worse completion percentage in college and just this past Sunday Drew Brees finally broke his all time record of 6,300 completions.

The one thing you should like about Allen is he is the embodiment of the down the field passer.

Obviously, he needs to develop but his upside is through the roof and that upside wass on full display this past Sunday.
Stafford had a point on Allen for career rate and his final season he had cleared 61% completion. He also played in Georgia rather than Wyoming, which should mean something. Brett Favre played college nearly 30 years ago. I'm not sure he's college stats are relevant as a comparitor.

Again, Allen could still succeed. The sample size on guys with low completion percentage drafted as early as he was is very small. I just wasn't interested in taking that risk.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker

Ice
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6590
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 6:17 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby Ice » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:01 am

You are really arguing Favre's age?
Might want to argue the inverse on completion percentage.

Top 10 most accurate since 1956.

1 Colt Brennan* 70.4 2005 2007 Hawaii
2 Colt McCoy* 70.3 2006 2009 Texas
3 Kellen Moore* 69.8 2008 2011 Boise State
4 Graham Harrell* 69.8 2005 2008 Texas Tech
5 Brandon Weeden* 69.5 2008 2011 Oklahoma State
6 Case Keenum* 69.4 2007 2011 Houston
7 Chase Holbrook 69.3 2006 2008 New Mexico State
8 Seth Doege* 69 2009 2012 Texas Tech
9 Johnny Manziel* 68.9 2012 2013 Texas A&M
10 Brandon Doughty* 68.6 2011 2015 Western Kentucky

Completion percentage in college means very little. These players are kids in various systems. Anyone using this stat completely discounts a players advancement or regression as they grow and mature.

Nothing wrong with avoiding a player in fantasy but completion percentage is a pretty lousy metric. One reason the NFL has such a hard time with QB evaluation is there are so many metrics needed for the evaluation.

He checks all the boxes with several elite characteristics. The real determinate factor will ultimately be his decision processing speed and decision accuracy. He passes the ball beautifully. Like others that rise to elite, he will have to improve over time.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts

Lotto4Life
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2364
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:48 am

Re: Josh Allen

Postby Lotto4Life » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:09 am

ericanadian wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:15 amHe also played in Georgia rather than Wyoming, which should mean something.
That he had Mohammad Massoquoi and AJ Green as WRs and Knowshon Moreno as his RB his last season?

User avatar
Servo
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1934
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:17 pm

Re: Josh Allen

Postby Servo » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:35 am

Trying to compare Allen to Stafford is a moot point, Stafford's high school and college production blow Allen's completely out of the water.

Football Outsiders has an annual article called QBASE that reviews incoming QB and tries to project them:
Based on their metrics, "since 1997, there have been 27 different quarterbacks chosen in the top 100 with ratings similar to Josh Allen. The best of these quarterbacks was either Josh McCown or Brian Griese. It's a terrible group of quarterback busts. This list also includes Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, J.P. Losman, and Patrick Ramsey."

Clearly, you cannot believe everything you see or hear but as I've mentioned it before, I am a big skeptic but internally I do hope Allen succeeds, would be cool to have a kid come from nowhere and turn into something. However, in terms of drafting him? I'll gladly let someone else take him for today and if he shows enough, go get him later. The NFL has already chewed up and spit out plenty of QBs like Allen before, we'll see how he progresses.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Google [Bot], repkllrs and 28 guests