This just happened....bad trade...

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.

What would you do?

This is likely collusion
44
57%
This is just a bad trade, I’d quit a league like that
11
14%
This is just a bad trade, I’d keep playing
16
21%
I’ve seen Goff go for more
6
8%
 
Total votes: 77

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hjernazian
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby hjernazian » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:54 am

hjernazian wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:35 am
Reljac wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:10 pm
So, this afternoon this trade goes through in my league...
Travis Kelce, AJ Green, and Ryan Shazier for Jared Goff...

I’m speechless... what do you think?
don't mean to be coarse, but are you bleeping kidding me? collusion or playing with a bunch of idiots that don't even watch football. C'mon man. I'm a LA resident and go to Rams games - Goff is somewhat exciting - but I don't think you make that trade even for D. Watson. Stupid. Call it out. Make a scene, and let it be known that as commish you are not OK with this. set a precedent, even if you don't want to overturn it.
Team 1

Superflex, 1.0 point PPR

QB: P. Mahomes $5, C. Newton $20, B. Mayfield $2, D. Brees
RB: D. Johnson $54, N. Chubb $4, T. Coleman $4, D. Henry $14, I. Crowell $3, J. Richard $9, J. Adams $3
WR: A. Robinson $41, T.Y. Hilton $24, J. Landry $25, C. Davis $4, C. Godwin $4, D. Hamilton $3, K. Cole, S. Shephard $10
TE: E. Engram $4, D. Njoku $2, K. Rudolph $3, V. McDonald $4
K/DEF: Irrelevant

2019: 2.04, 2.05, 2.06, 3.06, 4.06

Team 2

Start: 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB/WR/TE - 25 man roster + 4 TAXI

QB: T. Brady, M. Ryan, N. Foles
RB: K. Hunt, C. McCaffrey, D. Johnson, T. Coleman, S. Ware, D. Williams, Ito Smith, D. Sproles
WR: AJ Green, A. Robinson, A. Thielen, E. Sanders, G. Tate, S. Roberts
TE: J. Reed, J. Butt, M. Roberts, V. Davis, M. Williams
TAXI: S. Darnold, D. Fountain, D. Cain, Jaleel Scott

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hjernazian
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby hjernazian » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:58 am

MontrealBen wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:16 pm
Not much you can do except chalk it up to a bad trade (and mercilessly make fun of the new Goff owner every day he remains in the league), but I'd be watching for a subsequent "make up" deal. If that comes through, I'd be calling collusion.
This.
Team 1

Superflex, 1.0 point PPR

QB: P. Mahomes $5, C. Newton $20, B. Mayfield $2, D. Brees
RB: D. Johnson $54, N. Chubb $4, T. Coleman $4, D. Henry $14, I. Crowell $3, J. Richard $9, J. Adams $3
WR: A. Robinson $41, T.Y. Hilton $24, J. Landry $25, C. Davis $4, C. Godwin $4, D. Hamilton $3, K. Cole, S. Shephard $10
TE: E. Engram $4, D. Njoku $2, K. Rudolph $3, V. McDonald $4
K/DEF: Irrelevant

2019: 2.04, 2.05, 2.06, 3.06, 4.06

Team 2

Start: 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB/WR/TE - 25 man roster + 4 TAXI

QB: T. Brady, M. Ryan, N. Foles
RB: K. Hunt, C. McCaffrey, D. Johnson, T. Coleman, S. Ware, D. Williams, Ito Smith, D. Sproles
WR: AJ Green, A. Robinson, A. Thielen, E. Sanders, G. Tate, S. Roberts
TE: J. Reed, J. Butt, M. Roberts, V. Davis, M. Williams
TAXI: S. Darnold, D. Fountain, D. Cain, Jaleel Scott

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mgscott
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby mgscott » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:43 am

I do think contract years and salaries matter in this case. It can help give more context to the trade. In a contract league, you can see a lot of "lopsided" trades for various reasons due to contracts. A team not in contention may want to get some value out of expiring contracts, or possibly just trading away bad contracts for a long-term, low salary contract. I agree the trade looks horrible, but it is best to have contract information on all players before completely evaluating the trade.

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Reljac
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby Reljac » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:19 am

mgscott wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:43 am
I do think contract years and salaries matter in this case. It can help give more context to the trade. In a contract league, you can see a lot of "lopsided" trades for various reasons due to contracts. A team not in contention may want to get some value out of expiring contracts, or possibly just trading away bad contracts for a long-term, low salary contract. I agree the trade looks horrible, but it is best to have contract information on all players before completely evaluating the trade.
I can help Clarify this a bit.
  • There are no salaries or salary caps.
  • Ryan Shazier is not at the end of his contract (2yrs)
  • The team receiving AJ Green and Travis Kelce will be able to extend their contracts, instead of Allen Hurns or Djax.. Only expiring players are: AJG, Julio, Kelce, Miller, Cameron Jordan, Hurns, Djax, Jerrell Freeman, AP, Blount, Cyprien.
  • The team trading AJ Green and Travis Kelce: Expiring players after trade are: Doug Martin, Fitzgerald, Woods, Witten, Ogletree, Rivers, Hilton, Wallace, Reed, Worrilow, Watt
  • This is the 5th year of the league and all initial contracts were 5 years, which is why you see the above near retirement players expiring on their initial contracts
  • Each owner will have 5 contracts they can hand out to the players they have expiring. 1-3yr, 2-2yr, and 2-1yr.
I did not include contract options as I don't think they come into play here. For the team giving up Kelce & AJG they were clearly his top two players with TY Hilton coming in 3rd. His other options for contracts other than Doug Martin are all outside the top-100 players have either never performed, are at or near retirement, or have missed most of the last two years to injury.

Also Shazier was part of the deal and was not coming off contract and the #2 defensive scorer in our league this year and is the #6 scorer amongst all Non-QB offensive and defensive players.

Hopefully that clarifies for the contract questions.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz
RB: David Johnson, N Chubb, D Guice, I Crowell, A Jones, P Barber
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel, T Taylor, C Williams
TE: T Burton, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2019: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby mgscott » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:28 am

That definitely helps clarify it. Does Goff have 4 yrs on his contract then? With the ability to extend contracts, they do become less of an issue with this trade, but not a complete non-issue. The contracts and possible extensions just adds more to the dynamics and thought-process of each owner, versus a straight up dynasty. It definitely looks like a bad trade, and the Goff owners intentions should be questioned.

Thanks for the info.

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Cult of Dionysus
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am

I think roster-context would be helpful in this instance. If the dude has a solid TE and WR corps, and is short on QB talent, then this would not be indefensible.

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Reljac
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby Reljac » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:45 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am
I think roster-context would be helpful in this instance. If the dude has a solid TE and WR corps, and is short on QB talent, then this would not be indefensible.
Page 2
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz
RB: David Johnson, N Chubb, D Guice, I Crowell, A Jones, P Barber
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel, T Taylor, C Williams
TE: T Burton, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2019: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

sloth8u
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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby sloth8u » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:58 am

hjernazian wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:44 am
..... explanation is: they either colluded or don't know who J. Goff is. Simple.
this is the problem here.
we dont know who goff is.

ive had 3 processed trades tampered with in my dynasty league career. 2 reversed because "i was killing him", both of which....my gives have been the better own on the score board. and 1 in which i was getting killed by giving andre johnson for luck and ab.

i think the trade is nuts....but (if i understand correctly, over 5 years) with no trade history in the past...............how can you say anything? perhaps he doesnt want to use his 5 tags on guys that ultimately make him mediocre at the end of the year. some here will argue that the middle is the worse place to be.

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:00 am

My final thought on this situation for Greg is this. If the league you initially created isn't the league you wanted/envisioned, then the best option is to finish the current season, make the payouts, and then disband.

At that point you have an opportunity to create a new league with the rules and settings that satisfy you. I agree with what MEuRaH said that once a league is created it is no longer "mine", you simply run it. That's how I view things in my leagues as well, since once you get a group of people together to play fantasy you've got to manage the group and keep it cohesive.

Telling the other owners how it's going to be, or changing settings mid-season will only fracture the group and frustrate other owners. That's what you're seeing on this thread.
14 Team, No-PPR, 20 Man Roster, TD Heavy, TD = 6, FG = 3, Start: 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, (RB/WR/TE), K, D

QB: R. Wilson, L. Jackson
RB: J. Mixon, N. Chubb, M. Breida, L. Murray, J. Jackson
WR:M. Thomas, T.Y. Hilton, C. Godwin, S. Watkins, D. Pettis, J. Reynolds, H. Butler
TE: T. Kelce, E. Engram, D. Njoku
2020 Aug. Draft Picks: 1st (late)

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby gwjordan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:39 am

MEuRaH and Shoreline Steamers...thank you for the constructive posts. I agree with you 100% on all counts, so not going to argue any of it. There are reasons the league got to where it is...some of them my fault, some of them other owners fault, some of them the site's fault...but it doesn't really matter how it happened. The fact that it ended up here is what matters. I could have - and should have - done a lot of things better, but I'm human. Live and learn.

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby sloth8u » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:44 am

switch to mfl...it tracks everything...all you have to do is set the rules and play along. dont change the rules without vote, and your set. best wishes

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby Never Veto » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:57 am

yeah after reading just a couple lines of the last post, I would say peace out to this league.
20 Team Superflex (1/2 PPR / 6pt TD's)
11 Starters - QB 1(2), RB 2(4), WR 2(5), TE 2(3)


QB - Deshaun Watson, Kirk Cousins, Andrew Luck
RB - Kenyan Drake, Rashaad Penny, Royce Freeman, Malcolm Brown
WR - Odell Bechkam Jr, Adam Thielen, Cooper Kupp, Allen Robinson, Kenny Golladay, Curtis Samuel
TE - Zach Ertz, OJ Howard
IR - Jerrick McKinnon
PS - Jarrett Stidham, Gary Jennings,
2nd place because of Cousins and Thielen :(

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby MT18180 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:58 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am
I think roster-context would be helpful in this instance. If the dude has a solid TE and WR corps, and is short on QB talent, then this would not be indefensible.
I have followed this post for days now and feel after reading all the questions I think its time the entire story be told. I am the owner who received AJG/Kelce/Shazier. The expiring contracts for the new Goff owner are Doug Martin , Roberts Woods, Fitz, Witten, Ogletree, Rivers, TY Hilton , Jordan Reed , Mike Wallace and JJ Watt. Also Kelce and AJG have 1 year contracts giving him 12 before the trade but probably only 6-8 that should be considered for an extension as the OP said only 5 extensions are available. So the trade talks started 3 weeks ago as I have DAK, D Watson,and Goff. The trade was going to be for Watson originally then he got hurt so we put talks on hold. after sweeping his games last week the new Goff owner ( Brian ) is now 2 games out of the playoffs with 3 weeks left (6 games ) he plays the # 6 seed & # 14 seed this week the # 12th & 9th next week and finishes up with the 13Th & 11th seeds. Contracts were a big issue in this trade however the reason he called me to finalize a deal is due to the fact his QB situation was very bad. Feeling he has a shot to get in the playoffs he had 2 QB's before the trade Winston ( out for at least 2-3 more weeks ) and Rivers in concussion protocol. Between the 14 teams 44 QB's are currently on rosters in fact the only starting QB available was Tom Savage ( who got picked up ). There is no doubt I received a lot but I wish the OP had taken time to post all the facts so everyone could make an informed opinion. On our league website the OP has said multiple times NONE of this matters ? Calling it collusion from the jump. It is my opinion that the whole situation does matter.
I welcome your thoughts now that the whole story has been told.
Thank You
Mike

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby gwjordan » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:59 am

As for the trade itself, we could all be wrong about Goff. What if he turns out to be Tom Brady or Dak Prescott (assuming he is actually good)? Who knows? To act like we know the future is wrong. Having said that, I can't understand why the owner receiving Goff would move Kelce rather than Jordan Reed or include Shazier. Seems like Green and Kelce would be plenty to get Goff. More than I would give up. But I have the benefit of knowing the owners (one moreso than the other) and you guys don't. The owner that received so much for Goff is a Rams fan and is also a salesman by trade. If the other owner wanted Goff, the only way he was going to get him was by way overpaying. That's just the way it is. In a baseball league with him last year, I had to way overpay to get Goldschmidt from him, but I knew that going in, and I wanted him. I had good replacements at the positions I moved to get him and I was happy with the results. If the two owners here were happy with the results, who are we to say they were wrong? And to accuse them of cheating is way out of line. Was it cheating when the Cowboys traded Herschel Walker for three 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks plus players and other picks? Was it cheating when the Saints traded all of their picks to Washington plus a first the next year for Ricky Williams? Was it cheating when the Patriots traded a 4th round pick for Randy Moss? No. They were all dumb trades, but none of them was cheating or collusion. That's nonsense. I know these guys. They wouldn't do that.

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Re: This just happened....bad trade...

Postby MT18180 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am
I think roster-context would be helpful in this instance. If the dude has a solid TE and WR corps, and is short on QB talent, then this would not be indefensible.
And to answer your question his WR are Fitz, Robert Woods, and Marquis Lee this week with TY on his bye Jordan Reed and Witten at TE
and Alec Ogletree and Deone Bucannon are his LB.
Thank You
Mike


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