Kareem Hunt

[AZK]

It will be interesting to see if Ware gets his starting job back when/if he's healthy again..

That ship has sailed barring injury.

[balaberda]

I think all hunt owners should be trying to acquire ware. This team and this system is worth having both RB.

[skip]

It will be interesting to see if Ware gets his starting job back when/if he's healthy again..

I'm finding it interesting that so many people viewed Ware as the starter coming into the year. He looked like a replaceable talent going into last season. Injury or not, I didn't expect him to keep that job anyway.

[Cameron Giles]

The commonplace thinking in fantasy:

Player not expected to be great and will never be great but he's producing well? Sell!!!
Player expected to be great and will eventually be be great but he's producing poorly? Buy!!!

So hard for people to get people to give up on preconceived ideas...

This is true to a degree, but it also offers up a window to acquire players who are more likely to be better long-term producers.

[dmac37]

I'd agree with the above ^.

If Ware didn't get hurt, we very likely would be buzzing about the awesome start he's had. He'd currently be in the conversation of the "next big thing" / top 5 dynasty rb, etc. As it worked out, They drafted Hunt for quality depth behind Ware, and.... well, now we are talking about how awesome Hunt is. The situation there in KC has quite a bit to do with what we are seeing from Hunt. But, that is normal for most rb. A good to very good O-line really does make the NFL caliber rb look great. But, conversely, a poor to below avg NFL line will make even a very talented rb look pedestrian. Put it this way; I doubt if Hunt were running behind Seattle's line or NYG's line we'd see this kind of production.

The stars have aligned for K.Hunt, the Chiefs, and his fantasy owners. Congrats.
I'm certain most didn't see this kind of start coming. (bold statement, I know).

I do not think Ware has ever shown what Hunt has shown during these first 3 games. Hunt has shown he has what it takes in all phases of being a bell cow RB in the NFL. He is running through, around, and past defenders in his path with a rare combination of vision, balance, and speed. I think his fantasy numbers will regress some but he will be a FF RB1 for years to come.

[kadun2]

It will be interesting to see if Ware gets his starting job back when/if he's healthy again..

I'm finding it interesting that so many people viewed Ware as the starter coming into the year. He looked like a replaceable talent going into last season. Injury or not, I didn't expect him to keep that job anyway.

Exactly

[Vcize]

The commonplace thinking in fantasy:

Player not expected to be great and will never be great but he's producing well? Sell!!!
Player expected to be great and will eventually be be great but he's producing poorly? Buy!!!

So hard for people to get people to give up on preconceived ideas...

Not at all in the case of Hunt. There are very valid reasons why he was not considered elite coming out of college which remain just as true today. He is a good/very good RB in a phenomenal situation. Right now he has had an unbelievable run of three games and there are some owners who now believe he is elite. To be honest, he has had so much room to run, if he was elite he would have had even more break away runs. If a Hunt owner is offered an elite price for him, it would be terribly short sighted not to take it.

Similar to the reasons why Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson, Devonta Freeman, Arian Foster, Jamaal Charles, and a thousand others were not considered elite coming out of college.

It's clear watching Hunt that they were as wrong with this guy as they were with those guys, and in many of these cases it's because they underrated less talked about attributes the same way they underrated the importance of Hunt's ability to break tackles without losing speed and the way they underrated his exceptional vision.

Watching Hunt play, he stands toe to toe with all those guys. He is an elite player in a great situation. Saying if he was elite he would have had more breakaway runs is absurd when he has four 50+ yard TDs in 3 games. Ezekiel Elliot is in an even better situation and he doesn't even have that many 50+ yard TD in 18 games.

So many of Hunt's runs have been incredible. His 2nd TD in week 2 is one not many others (if any) would have scored. It was unbelievable. He always gets more yards than are available to him and on the big plays he creates more space on his own by creating bad angles for defenders with early moves rather than dumb jump cuts in traffic that just get him hauled down from behind.

This forum is often almost comically slow to react to changes in the dynasty landscape. If a guy has hype then he has 3 years of huge value regardless of what he does on the field. If he doesn't have hype then he has to be great for 3 years before anyone reacts. Allen Robinson is a top 10 dynasty asset around here but Hunt isn't.

[dm1129]

The commonplace thinking in fantasy:

Player not expected to be great and will never be great but he's producing well? Sell!!!
Player expected to be great and will eventually be be great but he's producing poorly? Buy!!!

So hard for people to get people to give up on preconceived ideas...

Not at all in the case of Hunt. There are very valid reasons why he was not considered elite coming out of college which remain just as true today. He is a good/very good RB in a phenomenal situation. Right now he has had an unbelievable run of three games and there are some owners who now believe he is elite. To be honest, he has had so much room to run, if he was elite he would have had even more break away runs. If a Hunt owner is offered an elite price for him, it would be terribly short sighted not to take it.

Similar to the reasons why Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson, Devonta Freeman, Arian Foster, Jamaal Charles, and a thousand others were not considered elite coming out of college.

It's clear watching Hunt that they were as wrong with this guy as they were with those guys, and in many of these cases it's because they underrated less talked about attributes the same way they underrated the importance of Hunt's ability to break tackles without losing speed and the way they underrated his exceptional vision.

Watching Hunt play, he stands toe to toe with all those guys. He is an elite player in a great situation. Saying if he was elite he would have had more breakaway runs is absurd when he has four 50+ yard TDs in 3 games. Ezekiel Elliot is in an even better situation and he doesn't even have that many 50+ yard TD in 18 games.

So many of Hunt's runs have been incredible. His 2nd TD in week 2 is one not many others (if any) would have scored. It was unbelievable. He always gets more yards than are available to him and on the big plays he creates more space on his own by creating bad angles for defenders with early moves rather than dumb jump cuts in traffic that just get him hauled down from behind.

This forum is often almost comically slow to react to changes in the dynasty landscape. If a guy has hype then he has 3 years of huge value regardless of what he does on the field. If he doesn't have hype then he has to be great for 3 years before anyone reacts. Allen Robinson is a top 10 dynasty asset around here but Hunt isn't.

You clearly cannot distinguish between a guy running through huge holes and a guy with actual elite talent. I have watched every carry of Hunt's this season. That is the reason I said if he was an elite talent, he would have had more breakaway runs. The reality is the o-line has been dominant and the the opportunities were there to be had. I am not saying Hunt does not have talent, but the idea that three games of running behind a dominant o-line(so far) is conclusive proof that everything previously known about Hunt was wrong and he is now an elite talent....that is what is absurd.

[Cameron Giles]

You clearly cannot distinguish between a guy running through huge holes and a guy with actual elite talent. I have watched every carry of Hunt's this season. That is the reason I said if he was an elite talent, he would have had more breakaway runs. The reality is the o-line has been dominant and the the opportunities were there to be had. I am not saying Hunt does not have talent, but the idea that three games of running behind a dominant o-line(so far) is conclusive proof that everything previously known about Hunt was wrong and he is now an elite talent....that is what is absurd.

This is a good point.

It's not being discussed much, but KC's run blocking is playing at an absurd level right now. So far, Kansas City is #1 in Football Outsiders' Adjusted Line Yards for offensive lines at 5.19. Since they started tracking the stat in 1996, only two offensive lines have finished with a ALY anywhere close to that: 2000 Rams (Marshall Faulk - 1,359 yards, 18 TD's) and 2002 Broncos (Clinton Portis - 1,508 yards, 15 TD's).

So far, KC is:

1st in Adjusted Line Yards
1st in Power Success
1st in 2nd Level Yards
1st in Open Field Yards
3rd in Stuffed Rank

In short, Kansas City's offensive line currently is run blocking better than any other team...by a lot. Whoever is running behind that line is essentially:

1. Not going to get touched in the backfield.
2. Going to run through huge holes.

There may be a little regression, but they'll still be the best in the league. Hunt's probably going to finish with a great statistical season, though it's fair to question if he's really an elite talent given what has been essentially perfect run blocking.

[skip]

I'd love for someone to quantify elite for me. I'm guessing it has to do more with "passing the eyeball test" than anything else. Or does he not qualify as fitting the proper athletic profile? There are plenty of players lacking an elite skill set that produce at a top level. I own Hunt and I'd be hard pressed to move him for anything other than an elite price tag. There is no rationale to valuing him for less.

[kadun2]

Did Andy Reid not move up in the draft to get this guy?
Has Andy Reid not chosen elite running backs in the past? Reid has a pretty good track record.
Those who were not paying attention are not happy now. Understandabley so.
He's been elite through 3 games and that's enough for me, even if he's just "good" going forward. I'll take that.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

I'd love for someone to quantify elite for me.

Longevity. Can you produce at a high level for 3, 4, or 5+ NFL seasons.

Situation. Can you produce and/or still look good in a sub-par situation.

That's how I view elite. There are many RB's in the league that have put up 1 really good season, sometimes 2 really good seasons. But it's pretty rare that a RB will put up 3+. Eye-test of course. If we went strictly on numbers, one could argue Alfred Morris was elite. Also I think elite players are typically capable of at least 1 huge season on their resume, i.e. a 1,400-1,500 rushing yard season or something in the ballpark.

Unfortunately there's really no reliable way of knowing until enough time has passed. We've had people swear up and down on these forums over the years that Jeremy Hill, Thomas Rawls, among many others were the next big thing.

[skip]

I'd love for someone to quantify elite for me.

Longevity. Can you produce at a high level for 3, 4, or 5+ NFL seasons.

Situation. Can you produce and/or still look good in a sub-par situation.

So based on this, Ezekiel Elliott is not an elite running back because he fails on both points. He is only in his 2nd season and is in one of the best situations in the league for a running back.

[Jfever]

Unreal. Splitting hairs. Arguing to argue. Not sure of the point here as I don't see it as complecated, nor do I see it as something I'd feel the need to be nit picky about.

Did Hunt come into the NFL with the same hype an pedigree that Elliot did?

No, he didn't. He was a mid to late first round draft pick. At the time, drafted into a potential rbbc (for short term). Zeke was a near concesous #1 pick overall. C'mon skip... It seems you are simply being difficult.


So.....anyway, it isn't just longevity. It's a combination of NCAA resume', pedigree, health over time, production over time, dependability, durability, staying clean off the field, being able to play while hurt and be match up proof......

[GridironGuerilla]

These kinds of threads can almost ALWAYS be split pretty clearly between those who own, and those who don't.