Pipeline IDP - New League Idea Help

[Miah35]

Prior to last season, I started a new league based on scouting and college football. I called it the NCAA Pipeline Dynasty League and so far it has been a lot of fun, very different and incredibly entertaining. See below for a link the league.

http://www61.myfantasyleague.com/2016/home/61701#0

In a nutshell, this league allows you to select a College in a one time Pipeline Draft. This college will then give you "Pipeline Rights" to one incoming Draft Eligible Rookie from your team. Example: If you took LSU, you get add Fournette to your team after the NFL draft. And you get to add a player once a year. For a more in depth look into the rules, see the below link to the By-Laws.

http://www61.myfantasyleague.com/2016/o ... 61701&O=26

With the same concept in mind, I'd like to take this idea to the next level and make it even more Authentic by making it an IDP, Auction and Salary Cap league.

It would be Full PPR for Offensive scoring with the below Offensive Starting Requirements.

QB
2-4 RB
2-4 WR
1-3 TE

I've never done an IDP league before so i'm looking for scoring rules and starting requirements that make IDP players score similarly and have comparable value to the offensive players in PPR.

Does anyone have any suggestions or examples of what they use?

[bruiser]

8 offensive starters? how many teams?

[Miah35]

16-32

[bruiser]

8 offense, 8 defense (DL,DL,LB,LB,DB,DB,FLEX,FLEX)

if you decide to use 11 IDP, do not require super-rigid start req's... flexibility is definitely more strategy. My favorite league requires 1DT, 1DE, 2LB, 1CB, 1S, 5 FLEX(formation dependent)

[dlf_tomk]

Fun idea but wouldn't it be inherently unfair in that some teams would just have a better average quality of player come through?

You've come to the right place though - you'll get a load of opinions on IDP setup.

I disagree with Bruiser slightly and favour a more rigid IDP lineup: 1 DT, 2 DEs, 3 LBs, 2 CBs, 2Ss and one flex.

In terms of scoring then balanced is the way to go. My rough ratio would be 1pt solo tackles, 4pt sacks, 6pt INTs. But it does need adjusting by position. D linemen and corners should get a tackle boost. DTs in particular should get everything raised a bit to make the worthwhile.

[bruiser]

Yes, the DT basically has to beat two men to record his stats (QB hits, sacks), so it is easy to justify doubling the reward as compared to his outside pass-rushing contemporaries. Corners are tough to give proper "real" value, but giving them some extra credit for passes defensed and sacks will help the good corners separate from the very big pack of servicable, average corners.

I am in multiple leagues. A couple are setup like Tom's rigid lineup suggestion, a couple are flexible. One of them has a "formation" guideline that is pretty cool and requires a very strategic analysis of the scoring settings. I like this the most, as it really gives you insight into where you should be looking for value in building your roster. Here's a summary:

*The following are the acceptable defensive alignments: of DLs, LBs, and DBs

(a) 3-4-4 where 3 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 1 Flex and 4 DB = 1 S and 1 CB and 2 flex
(b) 4-3-4 where 4 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 2 Flex and 4 DB = 1 S and 1 CB and 2 flex
(c) 3-3-5 where 3 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 1 Flex and 5 DB = 2 S and 2 CB and 1 flex
(d) 4-2-5 where 4 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 2 Flex and 5 DB = 2 S and 2 CB and 1 flex
(e) 4-1-6 where 4 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 2 Flex and 6 DB = 3 S and 3 CB
(f) 3-2-6 where 3 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 1 Flex and 6 DB = 3 S and 3 CB
(g) 4-4-3 where 4 DL = 1 DE, 1 DT and 2 flex and 3 DB = 1 CB and 1 S and 1 Flex

An Owner cannot have more than three DTs, three DEs, four LBs, three Ss or three CBs in his lineup, no matter the formation.

In a nutshell you must start 1DE, 1DT, 1LB, 1CB, 1S and 6 Flex (with restrictions)

[Miah35]

Fun idea but wouldn't it be inherently unfair in that some teams would just have a better average quality of player come through?

Yes, but that is why there is still a rookie draft and each team only gets the rights to one player a year. You can acquire more "Rights" but you have to trade for them. Having a team that constantly churns talent (Bama) is nice but it makes you a buyer every draft. If a team has Stanford, and after McCaffrey is gone, has no one worth taking, he could trade his "Rights" to the Bama owner for a proven player or Rookie pick. I don't think owning the top team in CF is the only way to get good young talent. I make it a point to keep this league competitive

[Miah35]

Thanks for the input guys. I think i'd go with the 8 offense and 8 Defense.

I'd probably go 1DT, 1DE, 2LB, 1CB, 1S and then 2 Flex.

As for scoring, I want the offense and defense to have the same floor and Ceiling.

If a WR goes for 5 Rec, 100 Yds and a TD thats 21 pts, a good game but not great. I dont want to have a CB get 4 Ints or a DT get 3 Sacks just to match.

So I'd like to get a DB points for PD's, TFL, etc.

Have you guys done or seen anyone do pts for Turnover return yards?

My though is that a WR would get 16pts for a 90 yd TD. Why shouldn't a CB get the same for an Int returned 90 yds?

[bruiser]

Yes, my leagues score all return yards on turnovers. Definitely agree with your line of thought there. It is a very exciting and rare play to see your IDP take one to the house. Definitely worthy of average day at the office = WR getting 20pts.

Two of my leagues record sack yards as well. Nice little bonus

[dlf_tomk]

I'd probably go 1DT, 1DE, 2LB, 1CB, 1S and then 2 Flex.
Why shouldn't a CB get the same for an Int returned 90 yds?

This is more complicated than it seems I think. The problem with INT return yards is that they're essentially unpredictable and can score a huge amount of points.

A long one can be ridiculous. 6 for the INT, up to 9 or 10 for the yards, 6 for the TD. That's a 20 point play that comes out of nowhere. So it means that you've essentially introduced a wildcard positional slot - most players wont do much but every so often a game is won because someone lucked into a big play or two from a corner. That's not much fun [I've played in a few leagues like that]. And it's unpredictable because offences don't really plan for how to stop INTs when they happen. If a WR takes it 95 yards to the house he's beaten more players and/or had better speed. If an IDP does that on an INT then it can easily be because he jumped the route on a WR who didn't even try to chase him down. We can argue all day about how much harder offensive or defensive play-making is but the fact is big plays aren't anywhere near as predictable with IDPs.

Far better IMO to have more starters who score lower at CB. Take out return yards [or at least minimise them] and start at least two corners instead.

The wider thing here is I can see that you're trying to do what I used to do with IDPs - ensure that any given player has a similar scoring potential. That'd be really neat if it worked but it doesn't. Because the number of IDPs is so much higher than offensive players due to O linemen messing the numbers up.

Consider the average week in the NFL:
32 QBs
32 RBs
80 WRs
48 TEs
Circa 192 viable OFF players per week.

64 DEs
48 DTs
80 LBs
96 CBs
64 Ss
Circa 352 viable def players per week.

Even if all the IDP Flex players are LBs you're only starting 60% of the LBs available. But you're starting every single RB anywhere near a lineup. Which means it's really easy to just stream defensive players.

It looks far less neat but having more starting IDPs who score fewer points will mean that owners value the better ones more. It's a bit counterintuitive. And added to that - if you're going to do an IDP league then do it properly. Starting one DE, CB or S is just dipping your toe in and the league will realise that pretty quickly. You might as well start with more than go through the rigmarole of adding them in a season or two into the league.

[compwc18]

I like the idea.

Just a couple things to quickly point out though. I believe that there are pros and cons to multiple flex positions. I run several leagues, one 24-Team (soon to be 48-Team) Superflex league with a balanced scoring system, 2 copies of each player available, and 22 starters. The starting lineup looks like this:

OFF: 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR, 1 TE, 1 QB/RB/WR/TE, 6 FLEX (RB/WR/TE)
DEF: 1 DT, 1 DE, 1 LB (MAX 4), 1 CB, 1 S (MAX 4) 6 FLEX

Given the format, I believe that the flex positions doesn't make it unfair, but allows teams to construct teams how they would like to construct them, especially with the deep rosters of 60 players. If you are curious on the scoring format, feel free to take a look at my league page for the scoring that we use, it was created by Eric Coleman, an IDP Writer for DLF, and uses a premium balanced approach across all positions. (The scoring is from Eric's league "No Position Left Behind".)

The other leagues I run have a more standardized format, having 23 starters, 32 teams with double player pool availability. We use the following set of starters:

OFF: 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 1 PN, 1 HC, 4 RB/WR/TE FLEX
DEF: 1 DT, 2 DE, 3 LB, 2 CB, 2 S, 1 IDP FLEX

As you can see, this second format is a little more structured, but all of the teams in the league enjoy the format because they need to build around specific requirements. Again, I believe that the league style really depends on those who will be participating in your league. With the devy concept in mind, I think it's important to allow flexibility within the league, because some of the best IDP prospects will be off the board prior to the draft.

Good luck! Loved that someone finally did the Devy Pipleine idea, let me know if you have any more questions or need any ideas, always willing to chat about new leagues!

[bruiser]

Ok, TomK makes some fair points above. I believe it is time I polled the IDP community for its optimal setup and publish some results. I did this a year ago for offense only leagues, but now have my curiousity sparked. Please take the few minutes to answer these setup questions to be included in my new study.

[dlf_tomk]

Completed Bruiser. I presume you're going to share the results?

[bruiser]

Yes, currently small sample (8 respondents). Will share when I get out of the hospital (wife)

[dlf_tomk]

Good man.

Hope all is well sir