Toney/tylan

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Zhoward88
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Toney/tylan

Postby Zhoward88 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:15 pm

Who you like more? Toney or tylan?
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby StripesOfKC » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:37 pm

Tylan for sure

Way better profile that would be airtight if not for an ACL injury that pushed his declare status back a year--love his tape too with the release and body control

I hope Toney goes to GB to build hype and push Bateman/Marshall down to me in the early 2nd, Elijah Moore in the mid 2nd and Tylan/Dyami Brown in the late 2nd

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby honcho55 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:47 pm

I’m having a hard time figuring out why Toney is getting mocked in the first. He looks good but, I dunno, I don’t see it. I’ll take the guy with the big sophomore year.
main league, half PPR, all TDs 6, -3 for INT
12 team. 2019 champ, 2020 runner up, ‘21 3rd
start 2SF, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2WRT

QB: T Lawrence, K Cousins, R Wilson, Z Wilson
RB: K Walker, T Ettiene, JK Dobbins, D Gore, J Hasty, D Johnson, L Rountree
WR: JJ, AJB, A Cooper, Juju, C Kirk, J Dotson, N Westbrook-Ikhine, I McKenzie
TE. T Kelce, Pitts, Albert O, D Parham, J O’Shaunessy

1.03, 1.11, 2.02, 2.09
Extra 24 1st

Zhoward88
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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Zhoward88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:34 am

honcho55 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:47 pm I’m having a hard time figuring out why Toney is getting mocked in the first. He looks good but, I dunno, I don’t see it. I’ll take the guy with the big sophomore year.
I think it’s the elite measurable paired with his highlights juking SEC linebackers and DB’s. He has top athletic measurables of any WR with chase. 40 in very, 4.3ish 40, 4” longer broad jump than chase, and he’s as shifty as they come in this draft.
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:42 am

Tylan Wallace and it’s not close. He’s smooth, makes some great single and double moves, and his concentration in contested catch situations is remarkable. Add his speed and he looks like he belongs as a starting WR.

I initially liked Toney for his superb athleticism and raw imagination with the ball in his hands. Then I watched college tapes of guys who used a lot of shiftiness in college to succeed - Percy Harvin, Barry Sanders, Tyreek Hill etc. You watch those guys and they were so slippery because of their slight and subtle shifts in directions and they were so smooth in how they ran. Watching Toney run is like watching a toy boat in class V rapids or maybe a frog in a blender. He’s shifty as hell, but he’s so all-over-the-place and sloppy. Those other guys were always moving forward and looking for the fastest way to get upfield even when they gave a little ground. With Toney, he’ll give up huge chunks of yards looking for entirely new seams and directions to go. That may work in college where he is so physically superior to opponents, but in the NFL where there won’t be that physicality gap and players are much more disciplined I’m not sure he doesn’t get tackled for losses/small gains often as he makes a play as he gives up ground and backtracks, and he may get creamed on backside pursuit. I see him absolutely frustrating a HC and teammates if he repeatedly gives up first downs in an effort to turn a 7 yd gain into a TD.

If Toney hits he could be huge, but I’ve seen too many of these human joystick type guys fail at the next level to bypass a talent like Wallace for him.

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Zhoward88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:13 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:42 am Tylan Wallace and it’s not close. He’s smooth, makes some great single and double moves, and his concentration in contested catch situations is remarkable. Add his speed and he looks like he belongs as a starting WR.

I initially liked Toney for his superb athleticism and raw imagination with the ball in his hands. Then I watched college tapes of guys who used a lot of shiftiness in college to succeed - Percy Harvin, Barry Sanders, Tyreek Hill etc. You watch those guys and they were so slippery because of their slight and subtle shifts in directions and they were so smooth in how they ran. Watching Toney run is like watching a toy boat in class V rapids or maybe a frog in a blender. He’s shifty as hell, but he’s so all-over-the-place and sloppy. Those other guys were always moving forward and looking for the fastest way to get upfield even when they gave a little ground. With Toney, he’ll give up huge chunks of yards looking for entirely new seams and directions to go. That may work in college where he is so physically superior to opponents, but in the NFL where there won’t be that physicality gap and players are much more disciplined I’m not sure he doesn’t get tackled for losses/small gains often as he makes a play as he gives up ground and backtracks, and he may get creamed on backside pursuit. I see him absolutely frustrating a HC and teammates if he repeatedly gives up first downs in an effort to turn a 7 yd gain into a TD.

If Toney hits he could be huge, but I’ve seen too many of these human joystick type guys fail at the next level to bypass a talent like Wallace for him.
Well those are decent points to discuss. I also feel tylan has good stuff but his own list of worries as well too. Do you feel he created enough separation in college? I don’t know if he would have had many of those plays against SEC teams. But that’s the entire reason I’m asking here....if you think Toney won’t be able to do what he did against SEC players....do you think tylan will be able to time his jumps and outplay nfl DBs like he did in college?
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:38 am

Zhoward88 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:13 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:42 am Tylan Wallace and it’s not close. He’s smooth, makes some great single and double moves, and his concentration in contested catch situations is remarkable. Add his speed and he looks like he belongs as a starting WR.

I initially liked Toney for his superb athleticism and raw imagination with the ball in his hands. Then I watched college tapes of guys who used a lot of shiftiness in college to succeed - Percy Harvin, Barry Sanders, Tyreek Hill etc. You watch those guys and they were so slippery because of their slight and subtle shifts in directions and they were so smooth in how they ran. Watching Toney run is like watching a toy boat in class V rapids or maybe a frog in a blender. He’s shifty as hell, but he’s so all-over-the-place and sloppy. Those other guys were always moving forward and looking for the fastest way to get upfield even when they gave a little ground. With Toney, he’ll give up huge chunks of yards looking for entirely new seams and directions to go. That may work in college where he is so physically superior to opponents, but in the NFL where there won’t be that physicality gap and players are much more disciplined I’m not sure he doesn’t get tackled for losses/small gains often as he makes a play as he gives up ground and backtracks, and he may get creamed on backside pursuit. I see him absolutely frustrating a HC and teammates if he repeatedly gives up first downs in an effort to turn a 7 yd gain into a TD.

If Toney hits he could be huge, but I’ve seen too many of these human joystick type guys fail at the next level to bypass a talent like Wallace for him.
Well those are decent points to discuss. I also feel tylan has good stuff but his own list of worries as well too. Do you feel he created enough separation in college? I don’t know if he would have had many of those plays against SEC teams. But that’s the entire reason I’m asking here....if you think Toney won’t be able to do what he did against SEC players....do you think tylan will be able to time his jumps and outplay nfl DBs like he did in college?
In a word - yes. Believe it or not, there are non-SEC players who can actually play in the NFL. This SEC gold standard gets a little old. SECs Ds were’t exactly stellar last year.

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Zhoward88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:10 am

I get more tired of people acting like the SEC doesn’t play a factor....like yea....we get it.....good players in every conference. But it’s pretty well known that the SEC has the best defenses and usually the toughest to throw and run on. So when a WR is beating SEC secondary’s consistently I do take that in to account. Think you’re kinda making a exception and disregarding an aspect that shouldn’t be disregarded. Tylan is good, that’s obvious. I’m using the factors that are in play to describe their talents and production. Winning a route on guys that won’t be in the nfl vs winning on guys that likely will be matters to me.
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby mgscott » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:31 am

Zhoward88 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:10 am I get more tired of people acting like the SEC doesn’t play a factor....like yea....we get it.....good players in every conference. But it’s pretty well known that the SEC has the best defenses and usually the toughest to throw and run on. So when a WR is beating SEC secondary’s consistently I do take that in to account. Think you’re kinda making a exception and disregarding an aspect that shouldn’t be disregarded. Tylan is good, that’s obvious. I’m using the factors that are in play to describe their talents and production. Winning a route on guys that won’t be in the nfl vs winning on guys that likely will be matters to me.
I think the point is that it is a tired argument that SEC defenses are the closest to NFL defenses and all other conferences are much weaker defensively so WR's, QB's and RB's that produce against other conferences aren't as proven as SEC players going against SEC defenses. I agree the TOP SEC defenses are the toughest to throw or run on, but not all. We're talking about a select few defenses with this, not the whole conference. There are some pretty weak D's in the SEC just like all conferences. I think a stronger argument could be made that Tylan has gotten to go against the Big 12 defenses, where all can be considered weak, and not proven he can get open vs real defenses, SEC or otherwise.

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:40 am

Zhoward88 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:10 am I get more tired of people acting like the SEC doesn’t play a factor....like yea....we get it.....good players in every conference. But it’s pretty well known that the SEC has the best defenses and usually the toughest to throw and run on.
Known by whom? I’d like to see you back up this assertion somehow.

I don’t want to get into this SEC vs the world debate because to me it’s pretty much pointless. Throw out Alabama and Ohio St, who pretty much stand alone atop the NCAA world in having guys stick at the next level, and there’s a lot of teams that aren’t all that far apart in the number of their players succeeding to make make NFL rosters. And that still has even less to do with evaluating each individual player on their own merits.

I evaluate players on what they can do and how I envision them translating to the next level, not on some mythical imagination exercise on what might have happened but never did. So if playing in the SEC is your criteria for measuring whether guys will make it in the NFL have at it, but know that your unwarranted prejudice is going to cause you to miss out on a lot of players who can play and be impact FF players.

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby yinzername » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:19 am

In my predraft ranks for 12t SF, i have Toney at 2.10/wr9 and Tylan at 3.8/wr13

Most of what i have read and seen is covered in the posts above so i’ll just add that my notes indicate that i am scared of Toney at that price and bullish on Tylan at his cost. I expect I will be shuffling them down and up respectively as the picture clarifies. But the all important landing spot will speak volumes.
SF - PPR - 12t - start10
Notable Assets in Rebuild
QB: Mahomes - Levis - Rudolph
RB: K Mitchell - J McLaughlin - C Rodriguez - Z Evans
WR: AJB - M Pittman- R Doubs - E Moore - Shaheed - C Tillman- A Iosivas
TE: MAndrews - Kraft
'24: 1.1, 1.7, 2.1, 2.6, 2.10, 3.1, 4.2, 4.7
‘25: 1 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds

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RB: Chubb - D Montgomery - D Singletary - A Mattison - K Miller - R Freeman - J Hill
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TE: Kittle - Kincaid

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Zhoward88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:54 am

I really don’t see why we can’t think it’s more impressive having similar stats against better competition??? Why is it hard to fathom I take putting up 960 yards and 10 TDs playing Alabama, LSU, TN, SC, Georgia, Missouri, and A&M is more impressive? I obviously feel they are both talented and deserve to be drafted close based on their talents but not sure why I’m getting crucified for saying beating SEC defensive backs is more impressive? Sorry I don’t agree that the SEC is not a good factor to utilize. I love drafting WRs and RBs that play in that conference. Just one of my thoughts. Only reason I really even hit on that topic is because it was stated Toney wouldn’t translate to the nfl, so I questioned if tylan going up against an beating corners that might not even be nfl caliber matters. I totally understand players that come from conferences other than the SEC can produce and shine. I think it got kinda blown out of proportion. Yea, I do look at the competition they are playing against.

Back to the talent, I think Toney could compared to Curtis Samuel when it comes to the versatility. Hand offs, screens, over the middle....tylan seems to be the vertical receiver that could impact the game with heavy play action. Be interesting to see landing spots then revisit this but I felt the buzz around these two seemed like they could be close in many drafts.
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:44 am

Zhoward88 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:54 am
I obviously feel they are both talented and deserve to be drafted close based on their talents but not sure why I’m getting crucified for saying beating SEC defensive backs is more impressive?
Hyperbolic victim role playing isn’t a good look on MBs like this.

We’re discussing this point because you brought it up to support your position. I asked you to provide some kind of documentation that backs up your assertions since you clearly think it makes a large difference in assessing players, and you still haven’t done that but instead continue to press the point and then on top of it state that you’re being cruelly attacked.

If you want to continue discussing the differences between these two guys, or any other players for that matter, I’ll be happy to enjoin. I like these discussions because it gives me other perspectives and I get a chance to broaden my own knowledge base. But a nickel’s worth of free advice: Leave the dramatics out.

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Zhoward88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:12 am

339 total (current) players in the nfl came from the SEC.....the next closest number is 87 less in a conference and that is the big 10. Yes, it matters to me watching success and production against the SEC...a conference that pours in nfl players at a high rate. Nfl talent is more prominent in the SEC than other conferences. That enough for you to see why I use that in some sort of fashion? Chill out man. You clearly don’t want to talk about Toney and Wallace and their talent. You want to argue and expand little things like saying I’m being a baby. I’m trying to agree with you and smooth over the notion that other conferences and school and produce fantasy relevant players. But I’m trying to explain why I do look at the SEC factor. My gosh.
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Toney/tylan

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:55 am

Zhoward88 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:12 am 339 total (current) players in the nfl came from the SEC.....the next closest number is 87 less in a conference and that is the big 10. Yes, it matters to me watching success and production against the SEC...a conference that pours in nfl players at a high rate. Nfl talent is more prominent in the SEC than other conferences. That enough for you to see why I use that in some sort of fashion? Chill out man. You clearly don’t want to talk about Toney and Wallace and their talent. You want to argue and expand little things like saying I’m being a baby. I’m trying to agree with you and smooth over the notion that other conferences and school and produce fantasy relevant players. But I’m trying to explain why I do look at the SEC factor. My gosh.
Yeah, and there are more non-Power 5 players in the NFL than players out of the SEC.

I thought I made my point comparing both pretty clearly in my initial post, which you quoted and then promptly jumped aboard your SEC horse and still won’t climb off.

Here’s a few sites with D stats and rankings. Make your argument about how great SEC Ds are, or please site your own sources if you’d like. Until you convince me otherwise, the awesome SEC argument is moot to me.


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... lldef/2020

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/ye ... fense.html

https://www.oddsshark.com/ncaaf/defensive-stats

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-fo ... s-per-game


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