Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

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Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby MaddMadden » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:13 pm

Who you got?
10 team half-PPR league. Starters: QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2FLEX, K, 2DE, DT, 2LB, S, CB, 2IDP. 40man roster. Salary Cap pinned to NFL.

2022 picks: 1st, 3rd
2023 picks: 2 1st, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, 2 4ths

Players under contracts 2021 (years)
QB: K. Murray (3), T. Lance (4)
RB: S. Barkley (4), C. Edwards-Helaire (3+1), J. Jacobs (4), M. Davis (1), D. Henderson (1), AJ Dillon (3), Z. Moss (3), T. Pollard (2), T. Etienne (4)
WR: DK Metcalf (2), C. Ridley (2), T. McLaurin (2), J. Chase (4), R. Bateman (4), E. Moore (4), R. Moore (4), J. Reagor (3), B. Edwards (3), KJ Hamler (3)
TE: G. Kittle (3), A. Trautman (3)
K: Y. Koo (1)
DE: D. Hunter (1), C. Young (3+1), J. Bosa (2), J. Allen (2), K. Paye (4)
DT: A. Donald (2), Q. Williams (3)
LB: D. Leonard (2), R. Smith (3), F. Warner (3) P. Queen (3), I. Simmons (3), J. Davis (4)
S: D. James (2), R. Grant (4)
CB: K. Moore (2)

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby Gator Sens » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:25 am

I like Murray more due to his rushing upside. Buffalo seemed to get away from Allen running outside the redzone last year. If Allen starts running again, this could easily change.

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby krtbuckeye » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:17 am

Allen for me. I don't view Murray as stacking up as a traditional passing QB, and despite the rushing upside of Murray, Allen continuously proved to be Buffalo's best red zone rushing threat. I'll take those rushing TDs over random yardage stacked on top of the passing stats with Allen.
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10 Team SF, PPR, Roster: 33+2 IR+2 Taxi
Start: QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, SF, FLX (RB/WR), K, 2 DL, LB, 2 DB, 2 IDP FLX

**IDP scoring is TKL heavy (1.0 solo and asst), no QBH or TFL.**

QB: Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts
RB: Jahmyr Gibbs, D’Andre Swift, Jerome Ford, Khalil Herbert, Jaleel McLaughlin, Ty Chandler, Michael Carter, Isaiah Spiller, Chase Brown, Evan Hull (IR), Sean Tucker
WR: Amon-Ra St. Brown, DeVonta Smith, Tee Higgins, Jordan Addison, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Josh Palmer, Demario Douglas, Alec Pierce, Michael Wilson, Jalin Hyatt, Kayshon Boutte (Taxi)
TE: Sam LaPorta, Trey McBride
K: Jake Elliott
DL: Danielle Hunter, Aiden Hutchinson, Jaelan Phillips (IR)
LB: Bobby Wagner, Jordyn Brooks, Logan Wilson, Ernest Jones
DB: Derwin James, Brian Branch

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby murphysxm » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:21 am

I'll take Allen and his size/durability advantage
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby DonBrazi » Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:44 pm

While Murray has more rushing upside, Allen's rushing upside isn't too far away. But we've seen Allen produce as a passer in a way that we're still hoping Murray shows at some point. My feeling is that a passing skills are more dependable than rushing skills. So I side with Allen. Not by a mile, but still pretty clearly.
IRL 12Team 28man 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1Flex, 1Superflex: PPR w/ small TE-Premium
Dak, Murray, Wentz, Darnold, Fitzpatrick
CEH, Gibson, Sanders, Javonte, Moss, Nwangwu
ARob, Sutton, ODB, Parker, Ruggs, Miller, Boykin
Waller, Hockenson, Pitts, OJH, Trautman, Gesicki, Everett
2022 1st (2), 2nd, 3rd, 4th

War Room 12Team 28man: 1QB, 1RB, 1WR, 1TE, 4Flex, 1Superflex: .5/1/1.5 Tiered-PPR, 1-Round Devy league
Dak, Murray, LJax, *Rattler
Etienne, AJD, Hubbard, Stevenson, Hawkins, *Spiller
Sutton, ODB, Jeudy, Reagor, Shenault, Rodgers, Kirk, Boykin, *G.Wilson
Hockenson, Jonnu, Firkser, Asiasi
2022 1st (2), 2nd, 3rd, *Devy 4th (2)

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby DYNASTY BALLA$ » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:34 pm

It's close but the tie breaker for me is two-fold, size/durability and upside. I think we could already be seeing Kyler's ceiling. However, Allen has improved so much over the past couple of years that I think with a quality RB and either a more reliable WR2 or TE he could step into the top tier of QB's along side Mahomes and Rodgers.
FFPC $2500 #6 ~ 12 team PPR/QB/TE1.5
QB: Josh Allen
RB: CMC, Zeke, Spears, Mattison, Justice Hill
WR: Kupp, Tyreek, Diggs, DSmith, MWilliams
TE: Andrews, Ferguson

FFPC $2500 #5 ~ 12 team PPR/QB/TE1.5 (2021 Champ)
QB: Josh Allen
RB: CMC, Jacobs, Ekeler, Monty, Achane,
WR: Kupp, Pittman, Amari, Ridley, Lockett
TE: Andrews, Ferguson

FFPC $750 #46 ~ 12 team PPR/QB/TE1.5
QB: Mahomes
RB: Bijan, Gibbs, Saquon, Kyren, Javonte
WR: Tyreek, Kupp, Waddle, Wan'Dale
TE: Hock, LaPorta

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby -THE DUDE- » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:14 pm

Allen
QB: A. Rodgers, Herbert, Purdy, Levis
RB: ETN, Bijan, Gibbs, Mostert, Dobbins, R. White
WR: AJB, Diggs, ARSB, G. Wilson, Kirk, E. Moore, Mingo, Wicks
TE: Fant, Njoku, Chiggy, I. Smith, Musgrave

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby d3sp3rad0 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:57 pm

DYNASTY BALLA$ wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:34 pm It's close but the tie breaker for me is two-fold, size/durability and upside. I think we could already be seeing Kyler's ceiling. However, Allen has improved so much over the past couple of years that I think with a quality RB and either a more reliable WR2 or TE he could step into the top tier of QB's along side Mahomes and Rodgers.
Was torn but leaning Kyler until I read this. Sound logic and thorough explanation that really made me reconsider. Either way, they are both great. I believe in Kyler and that he will take the next step forward, but it’s hard to deny that Allen already has.
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QB: Dak, Tua, Stafford, Tannehill, Purdy
RB: Saquon, Ekeler, D. Montgomery, Miles Sanders, Kamara, Gainwell, Cordarrelle, D. Henderson, Mark Ingram, Chase Edmonds, Boston Scott, Jordan Mason, Mike Boone
WR: Tyreek, Amari, D.J. Moore, Aiyuk, Jeudy, A. Robinson, Van Jefferson, Laviska, Odell, Hamler, D. Mims,
TE: Goedert, Njoku, Everett, Albert O., O.J. Howard

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby Zhoward88 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:50 am

Gator Sens wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:25 am I like Murray more due to his rushing upside. Buffalo seemed to get away from Allen running outside the redzone last year. If Allen starts running again, this could easily change.
Couldn’t disagree more. Like Allen more because of his size and less rushing. He still rushed and gets TDs and occasional yards but will last much longer than murray. Tiny little body rushing as much as he does is a recipe for disaster.
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby Vcize » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:35 am

I own both in different leagues and I'll take the opposite of the consensus here on the size/durability debate.

Allen is much bigger but I worry much more about injury with him. Kyler is tiny but he is great at getting down and avoiding contact. He slides like crazy, hardly ever takes hits.

Allen is huge but he runs like Marshawn. I don't love seeing my QB lower his shoulder and dive into 3 LBs at the goaline. He takes HUGE hits.

Allen has a lot of things that remind me of Cam. Takes big hits to his shoulders regularly, has a history of inaccuracy (Allen seemed to get past those this year but Cam had some great passing seasons as well, though never as good as Allen's 2020).

Also there seems to be this weird stigma that 23 year old 2 year player Kyler Murray has peaked as a passer. Kyler was a great prospect because he was a good enough passing prospect that he still would have been the #1 overall pick even if he couldn't run. Josh Allen is about to turn 25. When he was 22 like Murray was last year Allen threw for 2000 yards with 10 TDs and 12 INTs and a 52% completion percentage. Murray at 22 just threw for 4000 yards and 26 TDs at 67% completion. I think people forget that Murray is still a young developing passer when factoring in how much he can add in the passing game.

I like having both in different leagues as a hedge. But if I had to choose one I would take Murray. I can't fault anyone for picking either side though.
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QB: Herbert, Brady
RB: Barkley, Mixon, Jav Williams, Pierce, Drake
WR: Jefferson, AJ Brown, Metcalf, Hopkins, Peoples-Jones
TE: Kittle, Goedert

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby Zhoward88 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:46 pm

Anytime a QB runs is going to be riskier. Yes good point that Kyler doesn’t run with the aggression. That is something to factor if factoring running QBs. But I still take Allen here. Kyler got dinged up and it was noticeable. He’s a fun player to watch but I’ll take the guy that runs a little less and is built more for contact. Allen improved so much in 1-2 years. Kyler is already at that point with his skill. Both have great weapons. Both play in tough divisions now. (Yes the AFC east is likely gonna be tough this year besides the jets lol) I had murray and know he’s a stud. But Allen’s my pick.
10 team league....16 offensive keepers selected by April first. 28 man rosters during the season. 1 keeper defense and 1 keeper kicker.

.5 ppr, TE premium +.5, .2 return yards, big play bonuses, 4 team playoffs and 2 week super bowl (wk 15,16).
Start 1 QB 6 pt passing TD, 2 RBs, 3 WR, 1 flex, 1 TE.

QBs- Dak P
RBs- miles sanders, CEH, Najee Harris, Antonio gibson, James robinson, Boston Scott, qadree ollison, eno Benjamin, Sony michel, kerryon Johnson, gerrid Doaks, Larry rountree,
WRs- Brandon aiyuk, shenault, Adam thielen, Antonio brown, kadarius Toney, Jacobi Meyers, Dwayne eskridge, jalen Darden.

TEs- Goedert, fant, Hayden hurst, Dan Arnold, Donald parham
Kicker- koo

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby DonBrazi » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:52 pm

Zhoward88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:46 pm Anytime a QB runs is going to be riskier.
Pretty sure we've proven this to be false. I don't have any sources at hand.. but I'm pretty sure. From what I remember, the pocket is where most QB injuries occur.. not outside the pocket. And not on designed runs.
IRL 12Team 28man 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1Flex, 1Superflex: PPR w/ small TE-Premium
Dak, Murray, Wentz, Darnold, Fitzpatrick
CEH, Gibson, Sanders, Javonte, Moss, Nwangwu
ARob, Sutton, ODB, Parker, Ruggs, Miller, Boykin
Waller, Hockenson, Pitts, OJH, Trautman, Gesicki, Everett
2022 1st (2), 2nd, 3rd, 4th

War Room 12Team 28man: 1QB, 1RB, 1WR, 1TE, 4Flex, 1Superflex: .5/1/1.5 Tiered-PPR, 1-Round Devy league
Dak, Murray, LJax, *Rattler
Etienne, AJD, Hubbard, Stevenson, Hawkins, *Spiller
Sutton, ODB, Jeudy, Reagor, Shenault, Rodgers, Kirk, Boykin, *G.Wilson
Hockenson, Jonnu, Firkser, Asiasi
2022 1st (2), 2nd, 3rd, *Devy 4th (2)

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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:37 pm

DonBrazi wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:52 pm
Zhoward88 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:46 pm Anytime a QB runs is going to be riskier.
Pretty sure we've proven this to be false. I don't have any sources at hand.. but I'm pretty sure. From what I remember, the pocket is where most QB injuries occur.. not outside the pocket. And not on designed runs.
Don't remember the exact place, but I read the same thing. I do wonder a little bit though, is such data skewed by the relative scarcity of running QB's prior to the last several years? Not sure how long they went back, but aside from Cunningham, Vick, Kordell, Kaepernick, and Tebow I don't remember a lot of running QB's from the past.

I was just thinking that fewer QB's who leave the pocket and take off means that if a QB is in fact injured, it will most likely be in the pocket. Given that's where the majority of the players at the position spend most of their time.

On topic though, I'd side with Allen. Kyler could improve as a passer, and may well. But Allen has already taken strides in this area and seems like a safer bet.
14 Team, No-PPR, 20 Man Roster, TD Heavy, TD = 6, FG = 3, Start: QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, Flex, K, D
QB: L. Jackson, B. Purdy, T. Lance
RB: J. Mixon, N. Chubb, A. Dillon, J. Cook, K. Mitchell, J. McLaughlin, Z. Evans
WR: J. Chase, C. Godwin, D. Johnson, J. Reed, C. Tillman
TE: TJ Hockenson, D. Njoku, B. Jordan

14 Team, .5 PPR, 18 Man Roster, Rush/Rec TD = 6, Pass TD = 4, FG = 3, Start: QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, Flex, K, D
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Re: Kyler Murray or Josh Allen

Postby MaddMadden » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:52 pm

So I asked this because I traded Allen for Murray straight up. I valued them similarly, but made the swap due to contract considerations: Allen was on the last year of his deal at $2.3mm and Murray has 3 left at $8.2mm. While Allen was on a discounted contract, securing a like player for the next 3 years was an attractive option for long term team building.

I think that from a sheer value standpoint Allen is slightly over valued and Murray undervalued right now.

Allen had a career year and despite the addition of Diggs is bound for some mean reversion in respect to accuracy. His big arm was always touted. His accuracy, not too much. As he gets older and Zach Moss develops as a bigger back, you have to wonder if BUF wearing the hat of a likely perennial contender schemes as many GL QB runs. That caps his ceiling, if true.

Kyler on the other hand battled through an injury at the end of last year, and was still relevant from a fantasy perspective. You could tell watching him that he wasn't right. He is still young and it looks like ARI is adding some weapons around him. I think that we can see a big step forward like we were seeing before the ankle injury. I still think they draft a RB early to compliment Edmunds (Etienne?) and maybe Larry Fitz gives it one last go round. The guy is outright electric and fun to watch. In my opinion owning guys that you want to root for is worth something, but beside the point.
10 team half-PPR league. Starters: QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2FLEX, K, 2DE, DT, 2LB, S, CB, 2IDP. 40man roster. Salary Cap pinned to NFL.

2022 picks: 1st, 3rd
2023 picks: 2 1st, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, 2 4ths

Players under contracts 2021 (years)
QB: K. Murray (3), T. Lance (4)
RB: S. Barkley (4), C. Edwards-Helaire (3+1), J. Jacobs (4), M. Davis (1), D. Henderson (1), AJ Dillon (3), Z. Moss (3), T. Pollard (2), T. Etienne (4)
WR: DK Metcalf (2), C. Ridley (2), T. McLaurin (2), J. Chase (4), R. Bateman (4), E. Moore (4), R. Moore (4), J. Reagor (3), B. Edwards (3), KJ Hamler (3)
TE: G. Kittle (3), A. Trautman (3)
K: Y. Koo (1)
DE: D. Hunter (1), C. Young (3+1), J. Bosa (2), J. Allen (2), K. Paye (4)
DT: A. Donald (2), Q. Williams (3)
LB: D. Leonard (2), R. Smith (3), F. Warner (3) P. Queen (3), I. Simmons (3), J. Davis (4)
S: D. James (2), R. Grant (4)
CB: K. Moore (2)


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