A Jones or DJ Chark?

[MFundercover]

Thankfully this aggressive and extremely irritable poster, who has only been here 4 days, thinks the place is a joke, so he'll be gone soon.

Then we can be back to respectful, helpful chats.

It's hilarious. I've seen it a few times. Puts up a question. People disagree. Calls everyone idiots. Unless people agree with his opinion, they're idiots.

I only call people iduots for ranking Chark over Jones. No other forums or rankings make that claim, and nobody even really offers explanation for it here. It's a pretty terrible opinion that nobody outside of this forum agrees with.

Take a look back at the thread. You asked a simple question. Who would you pick, in a vacuum. You actually got more than that from the first couple of people who responded - they said, Jones short term, Chark long term. So, they gave you something.

You then went on a rant about how people overvalue Chark and undervalue Jones for some reason. Because they didn't immediately agree that Jones should be the choice?

You've repeatedly called Chark a possession receiver. Have you watched him play? Because, you're wrong. You say his ceiling is limited. Again, you're wrong. He was WR5 through 11 weeks of the season. That's not a 2 week flash in the pan. And who was throwing him the ball for most of those games? Minshew. He did fall off in the latter part of the season.

Maybe the first part of the season was a mirage? We don't know for sure. But a lot of us liked what we saw. He had a 20 odd % target share last year, and he's a big bodied number 1 type receiver, so it's likely his target share goes up. You talk about Minshew a lot, but whatever about him, they developed a rapport, so that can help. He had a decent enough catch rate. It wasn't spectacular, but it was fine. Improve on that a little, have his target share go up a little .. and things look good. He might regress with regard to touchdowns, that's always a variable.

Ultimately, who knows? There are reasons not to like him too. The difference between me (and 99% of the rest of the posters on this form) and you, is that, I know that ... we don't know everything. We can't predict the future. You're hell bent that the rest of us are idiots for liking Chark - we know that we might be right, but we might be wrong. Hell, professional GMs, who do this for a living, and are actual experts - not self proclaimed like yourself on this forum - get it wrong more often than right. Think about that for a minute.

Actually, maybe the Franchises should think about you? Since you rarely get it wrong. Maybe you should reach out to them.

As for Jones - bear in mind I am relatively high on him in relation to a lot on the forum. However, his touchdown number will regress. That's just ... that's as close to definite as you can get in football. He had a fantastic season, while in RBBC. And what has his coach talked about since? Getting Jamaal Williams more involved. What has the front office done? Drafted a new running back. What does that tell you? His time is probably coming to a close in Green Bay. You're full sure he's going to get a contract elsewhere as a number 1. Well, that's a variable that the rest of us don't like, and some aren't willing to bet on. For me, the fact the Franchise where he's done it can't agree a contract with him, and are openly talking about getting others more involved...that's a red flag. That doesn't lead me to believe anyone is going to be in a huge rush to pick him up.

I'm simply giving you some reasons people might like Chark, and some reasons people might be down on Jones. That's what you're asking for. Well, it's not what you initially asked for, but it's what you changed the question to after you were pulled up on calling people idiots.

Yes I've watched Chark play. He's a big bodied contested catch receiver and isn't very fast for an nfl receiver. His ceiling was already capped by playing with Gardner Minchew, and now they've added Shenault.

Talk about touchdown regression, but he still would have been an rb1 with 10 touchdowns last season, and has been the most efficient running back inside the 10 since coming into the league.

It's hard to see a one dimensional rookie like Dillon taking a significant workload from Jones next year. But his contract is a big question. Green Bay did have negotiations with him (twice) but wasn't able to make a deal. With other free agents at key positions and a tight budget, his contract situation is more about the salary cap than a vindication of Jones as a player.

All things considered I am looking to trade Jones to mitigate the risk of his landing spot, but he is absolutely worth a player with a higher ceiling than DJ Chark. That's a complete joke and literally nobody outside of this forum agrees. You could probably buy Chark for a 2nd round pick by the time Jones career is finished, it's really not close.

[dirkey]

I only call people iduots for ranking Chark over Jones. No other forums or rankings make that claim, and nobody even really offers explanation for it here. It's a pretty terrible opinion that nobody outside of this forum agrees with.

Take a look back at the thread. You asked a simple question. Who would you pick, in a vacuum. You actually got more than that from the first couple of people who responded - they said, Jones short term, Chark long term. So, they gave you something.

You then went on a rant about how people overvalue Chark and undervalue Jones for some reason. Because they didn't immediately agree that Jones should be the choice?

You've repeatedly called Chark a possession receiver. Have you watched him play? Because, you're wrong. You say his ceiling is limited. Again, you're wrong. He was WR5 through 11 weeks of the season. That's not a 2 week flash in the pan. And who was throwing him the ball for most of those games? Minshew. He did fall off in the latter part of the season.

Maybe the first part of the season was a mirage? We don't know for sure. But a lot of us liked what we saw. He had a 20 odd % target share last year, and he's a big bodied number 1 type receiver, so it's likely his target share goes up. You talk about Minshew a lot, but whatever about him, they developed a rapport, so that can help. He had a decent enough catch rate. It wasn't spectacular, but it was fine. Improve on that a little, have his target share go up a little .. and things look good. He might regress with regard to touchdowns, that's always a variable.

Ultimately, who knows? There are reasons not to like him too. The difference between me (and 99% of the rest of the posters on this form) and you, is that, I know that ... we don't know everything. We can't predict the future. You're hell bent that the rest of us are idiots for liking Chark - we know that we might be right, but we might be wrong. Hell, professional GMs, who do this for a living, and are actual experts - not self proclaimed like yourself on this forum - get it wrong more often than right. Think about that for a minute.

Actually, maybe the Franchises should think about you? Since you rarely get it wrong. Maybe you should reach out to them.

As for Jones - bear in mind I am relatively high on him in relation to a lot on the forum. However, his touchdown number will regress. That's just ... that's as close to definite as you can get in football. He had a fantastic season, while in RBBC. And what has his coach talked about since? Getting Jamaal Williams more involved. What has the front office done? Drafted a new running back. What does that tell you? His time is probably coming to a close in Green Bay. You're full sure he's going to get a contract elsewhere as a number 1. Well, that's a variable that the rest of us don't like, and some aren't willing to bet on. For me, the fact the Franchise where he's done it can't agree a contract with him, and are openly talking about getting others more involved...that's a red flag. That doesn't lead me to believe anyone is going to be in a huge rush to pick him up.

I'm simply giving you some reasons people might like Chark, and some reasons people might be down on Jones. That's what you're asking for. Well, it's not what you initially asked for, but it's what you changed the question to after you were pulled up on calling people idiots.

Yes I've watched Chark play. He's a big bodied contested catch receiver and isn't very fast for an nfl receiver. His ceiling was already capped by playing with Gardner Minchew, and now they've added Shenault.

Talk about touchdown regression, but he still would have been an rb1 with 10 touchdowns last season, and has been the most efficient running back inside the 10 since coming into the league.

It's hard to see a one dimensional rookie like Dillon taking a significant workload from Jones next year. But his contract is a big question. Green Bay did have negotiations with him (twice) but wasn't able to make a deal. With other free agents at key positions and a tight budget, his contract situation is more about the salary cap than a vindication of Jones as a player.

All things considered I am looking to trade Jones to mitigate the risk of his landing spot, but he is absolutely worth a player with a higher ceiling than DJ Chark. That's a complete joke and literally nobody outside of this forum agrees. You could probably buy Chark for a 2nd round pick by the time Jones career is finished, it's really not close.

See, you're just making stuff up? He ran a 4.34 at the combine. Tyreek Hill ran a 4.29. I guess Tyreek isn't fast?

His ceiling was capped by playing with Minshew (can I point out, as another poster already has to you, that's it Minshew, not Minchew?) ... despite the fact that that ceiling was WR5 through 11 games? Shenault might cap him, he might not. Do we know he's going to be a success? I sure don't. I personally think he'll take more targets from Dede.

OK, cool. You believe it's not close. The issue that I, and others have on here is the arrogance and rudeness with which you talk to people, calling them idiots, calling their opinions dumb. I know you think you're some savant, but you know what, I'd be inclined to side with the masses. There have been numerous studies that show that mass opinion tends to be far more valuable than the single opinion of an "expert". Check them out. Then check yourself, stop calling yourself an expert.

Perhaps, and this might be a stretch for you it seems, if you ask for people's opinion on a public forum, be prepared for them to (maybe sit down now, this will be shocking, and tough) disagree with you? It has been known to happen! Maybe be prepared for it, and maybe take in some of the information and you might learn something? I'm not saying you're always wrong, I'm not saying they're always right. But when you get information, it can change your thought process. Be ready for that sometimes. Don't just come with "I'm right, you're all idiots."

[MFundercover]

What are you even talking about? ECR has Jones ahead of Chark. When I only include the top 100 for accuracy the gap becomes even wider. Literally every ranking outside of 8 people on this forum agree its Jones. If you say you agree with the masses then Jones is more valuable.

And look, ever since I started making a case for Jones he came back in this poll People just saw the first couple responses and voted Chark because of that. What a joke.

[dirkey]

Cool. We'll leave it at that. You asked for people's opinions, in a vaccuum. You were given those. You asked for reasons as to why any idiot would prefer Chark over Jones. This idiot gave you some reasons that people might think that way. You have made assertions which I've pointed out are clearly incorrect, you've ignored those. We'll leave it there, you've your opinion, others have theirs.

Best of luck.

[elvisn]

Just on Minshew, he had the 7th best rookie season for a QB since 2010. The only 6 players better than him you ask?

Dak Prescott
Russell Wilson
Jameis Winston
Robert Griffen III
Andrew Luck
Baker Mayfield

So he's not as bad as you might think. Also, he likes to sling it Jameis style. That's fantasy gold for his WRs.

Stop depending on ECR, I know a couple of the top rankers personally and he adds some duds in there to boost values on players he's looking to sell. They ALL have an angle. It's like Evan Silva giving his DFS picks and all the sheep build teams with his picks and you lose, and he cleans house playing against the plebs. Fantasy football is more than "ECR".

[MFundercover]

Cool. We'll leave it at that. You asked for people's opinions, in a vaccuum. You were given those. You asked for reasons as to why any idiot would prefer Chark over Jones. This idiot gave you some reasons that people might think that way. You have made assertions which I've pointed out are clearly incorrect, you've ignored those. We'll leave it there, you've your opinion, others have theirs.

Best of luck.

Lmao, you are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing. Stfu


Well revisit this thread during the season.

[MFundercover]

Just on Minshew, he had the 7th best rookie season for a QB since 2010. The only 6 players better than him you ask?

Dak Prescott
Russell Wilson
Jameis Winston
Robert Griffen III
Andrew Luck
Baker Mayfield

So he's not as bad as you might think. Also, he likes to sling it Jameis style. That's fantasy gold for his WRs.

Stop depending on ECR, I know a couple of the top rankers personally and he adds some duds in there to boost values on players he's looking to sell. They ALL have an angle. It's like Evan Silva giving his DFS picks and all the sheep build teams with his picks and you lose, and he cleans house playing against the plebs. Fantasy football is more than "ECR".

I wouldnt have brought up ECR if that moron didnt say Chark was the consensus pick. He's not. I dont rely on ECR.

"There have been numerous studies that show that mass opinion tends to be far more valuable than the single opinion of an "expert"." - He is literally describing ECR, not me. Back off.

Seriously you people are retarded. Cant wait to bump this thread during the season. You are actually arguing that DJ Chark is a better fantasy player than Aaron Jones because he's catching passes from Garnder Minshew. And you used "plebs" as a burn. Just stop it. If anything, Chark is planted for "plebs", not Jones. Dudes fantasy ceiling is seriously capped. Jones ECR reflects the high rosk/reward player he is. Chark doesnt have much upside. A "pleb" will look at his high ECR and age and think he's only going to get better, without looking at context and seeing he will never be a top flight fantasy option. "Pleb"

Lol, Jones came flying back in this poll as soon as I started trashing the Chark voters This is going to be a fun one to look at next season.

[MFundercover]

Take a look back at the thread. You asked a simple question. Who would you pick, in a vacuum. You actually got more than that from the first couple of people who responded - they said, Jones short term, Chark long term. So, they gave you something.

You then went on a rant about how people overvalue Chark and undervalue Jones for some reason. Because they didn't immediately agree that Jones should be the choice?

You've repeatedly called Chark a possession receiver. Have you watched him play? Because, you're wrong. You say his ceiling is limited. Again, you're wrong. He was WR5 through 11 weeks of the season. That's not a 2 week flash in the pan. And who was throwing him the ball for most of those games? Minshew. He did fall off in the latter part of the season.

Maybe the first part of the season was a mirage? We don't know for sure. But a lot of us liked what we saw. He had a 20 odd % target share last year, and he's a big bodied number 1 type receiver, so it's likely his target share goes up. You talk about Minshew a lot, but whatever about him, they developed a rapport, so that can help. He had a decent enough catch rate. It wasn't spectacular, but it was fine. Improve on that a little, have his target share go up a little .. and things look good. He might regress with regard to touchdowns, that's always a variable.

Ultimately, who knows? There are reasons not to like him too. The difference between me (and 99% of the rest of the posters on this form) and you, is that, I know that ... we don't know everything. We can't predict the future. You're hell bent that the rest of us are idiots for liking Chark - we know that we might be right, but we might be wrong. Hell, professional GMs, who do this for a living, and are actual experts - not self proclaimed like yourself on this forum - get it wrong more often than right. Think about that for a minute.

Actually, maybe the Franchises should think about you? Since you rarely get it wrong. Maybe you should reach out to them.

As for Jones - bear in mind I am relatively high on him in relation to a lot on the forum. However, his touchdown number will regress. That's just ... that's as close to definite as you can get in football. He had a fantastic season, while in RBBC. And what has his coach talked about since? Getting Jamaal Williams more involved. What has the front office done? Drafted a new running back. What does that tell you? His time is probably coming to a close in Green Bay. You're full sure he's going to get a contract elsewhere as a number 1. Well, that's a variable that the rest of us don't like, and some aren't willing to bet on. For me, the fact the Franchise where he's done it can't agree a contract with him, and are openly talking about getting others more involved...that's a red flag. That doesn't lead me to believe anyone is going to be in a huge rush to pick him up.

I'm simply giving you some reasons people might like Chark, and some reasons people might be down on Jones. That's what you're asking for. Well, it's not what you initially asked for, but it's what you changed the question to after you were pulled up on calling people idiots.

Yes I've watched Chark play. He's a big bodied contested catch receiver and isn't very fast for an nfl receiver. His ceiling was already capped by playing with Gardner Minchew, and now they've added Shenault.

Talk about touchdown regression, but he still would have been an rb1 with 10 touchdowns last season, and has been the most efficient running back inside the 10 since coming into the league.

It's hard to see a one dimensional rookie like Dillon taking a significant workload from Jones next year. But his contract is a big question. Green Bay did have negotiations with him (twice) but wasn't able to make a deal. With other free agents at key positions and a tight budget, his contract situation is more about the salary cap than a vindication of Jones as a player.

All things considered I am looking to trade Jones to mitigate the risk of his landing spot, but he is absolutely worth a player with a higher ceiling than DJ Chark. That's a complete joke and literally nobody outside of this forum agrees. You could probably buy Chark for a 2nd round pick by the time Jones career is finished, it's really not close.

See, you're just making stuff up? He ran a 4.34 at the combine. Tyreek Hill ran a 4.29. I guess Tyreek isn't fast?

His ceiling was capped by playing with Minshew (can I point out, as another poster already has to you, that's it Minshew, not Minchew?) ... despite the fact that that ceiling was WR5 through 11 games? Shenault might cap him, he might not. Do we know he's going to be a success? I sure don't. I personally think he'll take more targets from Dede.

OK, cool. You believe it's not close. The issue that I, and others have on here is the arrogance and rudeness with which you talk to people, calling them idiots, calling their opinions dumb. I know you think you're some savant, but you know what, I'd be inclined to side with the masses. There have been numerous studies that show that mass opinion tends to be far more valuable than the single opinion of an "expert". Check them out. Then check yourself, stop calling yourself an expert.

Perhaps, and this might be a stretch for you it seems, if you ask for people's opinion on a public forum, be prepared for them to (maybe sit down now, this will be shocking, and tough) disagree with you? It has been known to happen! Maybe be prepared for it, and maybe take in some of the information and you might learn something? I'm not saying you're always wrong, I'm not saying they're always right. But when you get information, it can change your thought process. Be ready for that sometimes. Don't just come with "I'm right, you're all idiots."

Seriously bleep your arrogance. I'm giving you information that's going in one ear and oth the other and act like I'm the only one doing it.

I cant wait to bu.p this thread and PROVE how dumb this was.

[dirkey]

Cool. We'll leave it at that. You asked for people's opinions, in a vaccuum. You were given those. You asked for reasons as to why any idiot would prefer Chark over Jones. This idiot gave you some reasons that people might think that way. You have made assertions which I've pointed out are clearly incorrect, you've ignored those. We'll leave it there, you've your opinion, others have theirs.

Best of luck.

Lmao, you are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing. Stfu


Well revisit this thread during the season.

Ah, and again, you can't reply without cursing and being aggressive. Kudos.

Yes. I am. After I responded, gave you the information, you ignored my points, I realised, there's no point discussing with you, as, you're right. Always. In your own mind.

So we'll leave it there pet. Best of luck.

[dirkey]

Just on Minshew, he had the 7th best rookie season for a QB since 2010. The only 6 players better than him you ask?

Dak Prescott
Russell Wilson
Jameis Winston
Robert Griffen III
Andrew Luck
Baker Mayfield

So he's not as bad as you might think. Also, he likes to sling it Jameis style. That's fantasy gold for his WRs.

Stop depending on ECR, I know a couple of the top rankers personally and he adds some duds in there to boost values on players he's looking to sell. They ALL have an angle. It's like Evan Silva giving his DFS picks and all the sheep build teams with his picks and you lose, and he cleans house playing against the plebs. Fantasy football is more than "ECR".

I wouldnt have brought up ECR if that moron didnt say Chark was the consensus pick. He's not. I dont rely on ECR.

"There have been numerous studies that show that mass opinion tends to be far more valuable than the single opinion of an "expert"." - He is literally describing ECR, not me. Back off.

Seriously you people are retarded. Cant wait to bump this thread during the season. You are actually arguing that DJ Chark is a better fantasy player than Aaron Jones because he's catching passes from Garnder Minshew. And you used "plebs" as a burn. Just stop it. If anything, Chark is planted for "plebs", not Jones. Dudes fantasy ceiling is seriously capped. Jones ECR reflects the high rosk/reward player he is. Chark doesnt have much upside. A "pleb" will look at his high ECR and age and think he's only going to get better, without looking at context and seeing he will never be a top flight fantasy option. "Pleb"

Lol, Jones came flying back in this poll as soon as I started trashing the Chark voters This is going to be a fun one to look at next season.

Sigh. So, I'm a moron, because I disgree? Calling people retarded? Classy. You should absolutely throw shade at people with mental disabilities, it's both profound and classy. Well played.

Regarding my point on ECR, it wasn't exactly on ECR but you choose to look at it that way. What I am saying, you go on like people are crazy to rate Chark over Jones. You claim this is the only place that happens. Yep, some people rate Chark higher, some Jones. Guess what? It's the same with the rankers in the ECR. Some have Chark higher, some Jones. More have Jones higher, hence he is slightly higher in the overall rankings. I'm assuming it's the ones at FantasyPros you're talking about, where he's 10 places lower. That's not a huge difference. So, it's not exactly egregious that some people would have Chark higher. You'd swear we were suggesting that Dede Westbrook should be higher than Jones. People aren't saying that. Some people have a slight preference.

Honestly, just look back at this thread. YOu asked for a basic opinion from people. Got it. Didn't like it, so immediately started attacking people. It's a childish way to operate in my opinion and not how this forum works.

[theintercept]

Aggressive replies aside, the unwillingness to cop to a blatant fallacy is what makes a civil discussion hard to have. To say Chark "isn't very fast for an NFL receiver" when his speed score is in the 96th percentile... please. At that point you can smell the troll stink.

[StripesOfKC]

A year from now Jones will be a satellite back and low RB2/high FLEX

Chark will be Trevor Lawrence's top WR with WR2 floor and low WR1 upside

Jones will again be a low RB1/high WR2 this year but long term give me Chark

[FLY]

nice post Dirkey!
I had forgotten just how good Chark's 11 game stretch was last year. He actually outscored D. Hopkins by 5 points through 11 weeks. He also had 8 TDs thru 11 weeks before he hurt his ankle. He then played hurt for the last 5 games and didn't score any more TDs.
The 6'4" WR who ran a 4.3 forty definitely as WR1 upside.

[LPN]

If you think A. Jones so much better, why you are comparing him to DJ Chark in the vacuum ? Perhaps you trying to sell Jones (and you acknowledge he is a SELL) and asked for DJ Chark plus something and get rejected ? Well, "idiots" or not, many people believe in young WRs in PPR and will take them over RBs d/t longevity.