fournette and cook

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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:14 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 2:02 pm
Weknownothing86 wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 1:23 pm Because people loved Cook, over hyped him, and dont want to admit they were wrong. Its that simple. Since then he has been average and hurt. Fournette is not great either but the Cook over hype is just beyond annoying. Its what this community does, they latch on and they dont let go even if evidence is against them, ( Cook, Josh Gordon) or they take wayyyyyy too long to acknowledge a guy being as good as he really is (Brandin Cooks, Edelman, Mike Evans).
Going to chime in on this. It's really not that simple. I can only speak for myself, but I was much higher on LF than Cook coming out of college. I was trading for Fournette last off season, but based on what I have seen over their 2 years, and where I foresee their offences going, I am now higher on Cook.
Im not a fan of either but a huge thing ive noticed around these boards is peoples stubbornness about players either one way or the other. It seems very hard for people to let go of certain players, or embrace other players. And i think this stubbornness plays into the hype with Cook for sure, and its just annoying to me.

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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Vcize » Fri May 24, 2019 2:17 pm

BigBawseRoss wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 12:41 pm "he had 1 minor thing where HE WAS STICKING UP FOR A TEAMMATE freaking gronk and ajg have done that for crying out loud.

this dude isnt in the news or have ANY off the field issues at all to my knowledge
Just in the last 6 months Fournette threatened a fan, ran across the field to punch a player, sent out a tweet implying that he was gambling on sports while playing in the NFL, put himself in the doghouse with his team for giving up on a game, and got arrested.

In college he was supposed to sit out a game against Florida with an ankle injury, but got into a pregame fight with Florida players and was so ticked off that he decided to play on his injured ankle which he then hurt worse and has never really gotten better.

Dude is a bonehead who makes bad decisions, plain and simple.
Weknownothing86 wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 1:23 pm Because people loved Cook, over hyped him, and dont want to admit they were wrong. Its that simple. Since then he has been average and hurt. Fournette is not great either but the Cook over hype is just beyond annoying. Its what this community does, they latch on and they dont let go even if evidence is against them, ( Cook, Josh Gordon) or they take wayyyyyy too long to acknowledge a guy being as good as he really is (Brandin Cooks, Edelman, Mike Evans).
This makes no sense. Fournette had a lot more hype than Cook did as a prospect, so if it was just hype holding up Cook's value it would be holding up Fournette's even more.

Honestly I was probably among the biggest here on Fournette as a prospect, and the most down among anyone here on Cook as a prospect, and I like Cook a good bit better now. Draft hype has nothing to do with it.
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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:27 pm

Weknownothing86 wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 1:23 pm Because people loved Cook, over hyped him, and dont want to admit they were wrong. Its that simple. Since then he has been average and hurt. Fournette is not great either but the Cook over hype is just beyond annoying. Its what this community does, they latch on and they dont let go even if evidence is against them, ( Cook, Josh Gordon) or they take wayyyyyy too long to acknowledge a guy being as good as he really is (Brandin Cooks, Edelman, Mike Evans).
This makes no sense. Fournette had a lot more hype than Cook did as a prospect, so if it was just hype holding up Cook's value it would be holding up Fournette's even more.

Honestly I was probably among the biggest here on Fournette as a prospect, and the most down among anyone here on Cook as a prospect, and I like Cook a good bit better now. Draft hype has nothing to do with it.
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Like i said i dont like fournette either so this isnt really a fournette vs cook argument for me. Its a "both are not good" argument. Maybe we see things differently but to me Cook had more Hype than Fournette did. The hype on Fournette was always seen as a power guy who didnt really catch much but would give you solid numbers. The hype on cook seemed to be people saying he was a monstrous dual threat back who would win you games out right. Thats just my opinion but thats what i saw. Either way ill say again i really do not prefer one over the other and there are many backs i would rather have than these two.

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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Friction » Fri May 24, 2019 3:12 pm

I am down on both, personally. Still have both on one or two rosters though, as i refuse to sell for pennies just to sell. These boards can be high on one or the other, but my leaguemates sure are not or trying to buy low. Fournette seems to be a little more of a knucklehead at this time (or at least has been the one caught in the act publicly). Cook abused puppies, which moving on or not, proves he is/was a piece of trash, and things like animal abuse is more of an indicator of who you are, not running with the "wrong" crowd. I hung out with some bad bad people at that age too, so am all for second chances and growing up. Not a soul i know had animal abuse or domestic issues, that ever surfaced or were rumored to. Both their injuries are concerning and i do not see them currently as a wise long term investment overall, but that still boils down to their price tag. I could see both having a good year for redraft puposes and both are young enough to prop that value right back up.
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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:20 pm

Cook abused Puppies? Thats some Ted Bundy stuff right there. Screw that guy.

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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Friction » Fri May 24, 2019 3:38 pm

Weknownothing86 wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 3:20 pm Cook abused Puppies? Thats some Ted Bundy stuff right there. Screw that guy.
Haha. I dont know if I would go as far as call it Ted Bundy, but it was a guilty plea to something like animal abuse and neglect or whatever the lawful term is. Something like leaving a litter of pit bulls all malnourished and emaciated and left to rot outside or something. I have a lot of friends in that area, so there was some difference between some of the media and what was actual facts too, star athlete and all.Either way, two things that have no grey area;child abuse and animal abuse. Even domestic abuse (irony) a lot of the time does, since people lie, he said/she said, self defense, etc. I'm not going to lie though, morally i might only use as a tie breaker of sorts. I more worry for dynasty purposes when character comes into play for guys like Tyreek, the Ewok, Gordon, etc. Its hard not to consider it. Even Mixon is looking like he has changed, but you know there is a dark side that most players just do not possess. Most human beings dont possess. Can people like that truly change? Sure, but how do we know?
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Re: fournette and cook

Postby Gator Sens » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:54 pm

BigBawseRoss wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 1:43 pm Are people really talking about Fournette and his hamstring while cook missed 5 games by way of reaggravsting a hamstring injury??

I’m not higher on LF than cook I just can’t understand people being so much higher on cook than lf. It’s wildly biased imo
x2 - I think Cook is extremely over valued in the dynasty community. I get it, you is young, talented and a starting RB but he has really struggled to stay on the field. Whereas Fournette is being undervalued for the same reasons. I have seen so many posts about these to players and it is really interesting to me to see the differing opinions. People talk about Cook like he is a fantastic top tier back. His skill set may support that, but his stats do not.

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Re: fournette and cook

Postby gogobradyarm » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:45 pm

Gator Sens wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:54 pm
BigBawseRoss wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 1:43 pm Are people really talking about Fournette and his hamstring while cook missed 5 games by way of reaggravsting a hamstring injury??

I’m not higher on LF than cook I just can’t understand people being so much higher on cook than lf. It’s wildly biased imo
x2 - I think Cook is extremely over valued in the dynasty community. I get it, you is young, talented and a starting RB but he has really struggled to stay on the field. Whereas Fournette is being undervalued for the same reasons. I have seen so many posts about these to players and it is really interesting to me to see the differing opinions. People talk about Cook like he is a fantastic top tier back. His skill set may support that, but his stats do not.
These posts made me cringe. Have either of you done any research on soft tissue compensation injuries post ACL tear/recovery? Evidently not... Sports/Medical Fact: The season following ACL tears, often times athletes overcompensate with their healthy leg and cause soft tissue injury. This is a trend.

Cook's 2018 season was not great, but he still averaged a healthy ~4.6 YPC behind a battered offensive line. 2019 will be a year removed from his ACL tear, and likely will play far better (closer to what we saw in early 2017).

Fournette, on the other hand, has serious ankle issues dating back to college. This is not a soft tissue injury, and he may never fully recover.

Talent wise, i've always thought Cook was better, and I still believe that. The guy's play pop's on screen to me, and his advanced analytics are incredible, even in 2018 (juke rate, evaded tackles). Fournette is a big bowling ball, and also fun to watch, but the guy is grinding himself down and simply hasn't been able to stay healthy with his running style.

I wouldn't trade Cook for Fournette + 2nd...maybe if a 1st was added to LF, i'd move Cook, but even then...I'd have to think about it.
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Re: fournette and cook

Postby JJRules » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:42 am

From my understanding, Cook's animal abuse charges stemmed from having several puppies chained to a post. Getting into some real talk here, people from the hood tend to view dogs as protection first, and as such need them to be mean and tough. Cook was from the hood, and this incident was a reflection of his upbringing. While I strongly disagree with the actions, I understand them in the context of his reality.

That said, Cook really seems to have turned himself around and has more or less become a model citizen.
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