C. Meredith or K. White

This is the spot for player-to-player comparisons.

Who will be the better WR in Chicago short term and long term C. Meredith or K. White

C. Meredith
83
52%
K. White
78
48%
 
Total votes: 161

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WhatWouldDitkaDo
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby WhatWouldDitkaDo » Mon May 22, 2017 2:53 pm

Friction wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 7:27 pm
Bears should be behind a lot this year and beyond possibly, leading to some garbage time receiving stats too.
WR debate aside, why do you say the defense will be bad? Assuming most of the starters are healthy, I would project the CHI defense in the top half of the league. Not dominant by any means, but not terrible either.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Sterling Archer » Tue May 23, 2017 10:52 am

never again wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 7:46 am
jaykay22 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 5:29 am
never again wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm
What are the Meredith voters realistic expectations of him? WR3 most years as a ceiling? If I'm betting in fantasy, give me the guy with the higher upside, and White has that in spades. Now, chances are, he'll probably be a "miss," but he's played a whole 4 NFL games, after missing an entire year. Forget 3 year windows, how about we give him just one healthy season before we start making proclamations of how he's looked on an NFL field. It's not like he was polished coming in, either. I can find plenty of Meredith's every year. Both of White's injuries were freak ones, too. It's funny that we paint the brush of misfortune when it comes to Keenan, but when it comes to White, he's so much different just because his timeline of injuries came earlier in his career.
I get the message you're conveying (in principle), but Keenan Allen can play WR very well in the NFL. He's got great hands, he's got great releases, he runs good routes and he can manufacture separation and give Rivers throwing windows on a consistent basis. Kevin White on the other side, is not a very good NFL WR. He's big and fast (and that pains me to say as a Bears fan).

As a Cam owner I expect 80/1000/6. He is the better WR on the team, and it will show.
Right, but I wasn't comparing their abilities to play WR, just the lens in which their injuries are perceived through. Honestly, I think White actually has (or had) a higher ceiling than Allen, who will only ever play the role of a target-dependent Z in this league. White is very much more than just a "big and fast guy," too. This isn't DHB we're talking about here. He did lack creativity and polish with his routes, but he wasn't going to get that in 4 NFL games, and he never had to learn to do that in college. He did win consistently with his "size and speed," but he was also a technician at contested catches. He also showed great body control and hands. He's was a much more dynamic talent than Meredith. Again, I can find WR3 types every year in fantasy. You're not just going to dig up WR1 profile X receivers on waivers very often, however. If he misses, and again history supports that he will, so be it. But I won't be making any proclamations on how a rookie plays his position after 4 whole games.
I agree with you about Meredith vs. White (bolded above for emphasis). I've got no use (well, very little use) for a guy with WR3 numbers on my squad. I want upside or I want that roster spot available for someone with some potential. I think jaykay's 80/1000/6 is pretty generous for Meredith, but... it is possible. It would require another Kevin White injury, though. Being the last man standing does result in fantasy points, but we're talking dynasty here so one year of fantasy points doesn't mean much. If White gets injured and Meredith puts up 80/1000/6, that's nice for one season, but my money is that Meredith will get the Aiken treatment the next season (replaced by FA or draft). I'm not saying it's right, but if Kevin White stays healthy and puts up 80/1000/6 then he remains the team's WR1 next season and they build around him. That's just the way things go when you are #7 overall vs. undrafted. So given that the world is unfair, I'd push my chips in on White. Boom or bust.

Sorry to sidetrack, but first of all, I think Keenan gets ragged on pretty hard for his injuries despite one of them being a ruptured spleen (freak injury). Right now his value is really depressed despite being young and with elite numbers on a PPG basis. But the second point about him is that he's not just a volume dependent Z receiver. He's been used as X, Y, and Z ever since his rookie year: https://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/12 ... o-chargers

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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Vcize » Tue May 23, 2017 12:02 pm

Why do we think Meredith has no upside? He put up 68-888-4 last year in essentially 12 games as the WR1 despite a miserable 3 game stretch in the middle, all in basically his first time stepping on an NFL field.

Rod Smith was also an UDFA WR with an unremarkable athletic profile who had a similar 1st year as a starter (79-1020-4 in 14 starts, basically the same per start stats as Meredith). He had 100 catches for 1600 yards the next season.

I'm not saying it's in any way likely, it's a long shot, but is it really any more of a long shot than Kevin White becoming the next.....I dunno, is there any receiver that's ever missed 28 games in their first two years and went on to become great?

I own two shares of White and none of Meredith so I hope White is the guy there, but at this point I think they're both pretty low upside dart throws. At least we know Meredith knows how to play football. In White's brief time out there I thought I was watching Cordarrelle Patterson but with more injuries.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby rschroeder1 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:25 pm

Kevin White remains a great unknown unfortunately, even beyond injury concerns. Looking at Meredith's numbers from last year, I'm intrigued by the disparity of his numbers with Cutler and with Hoyer/Barkley. Meredith was a 2nd-teamer at the start of the year, and getting a lot of his reps (I'm assuming) with Hoyer. When Cutler went down, a connection seemed evident. I would argue he built a similar connection with Barkley as well.

With a strong-armed (albeit mediocre) QB and now the chance to establish that same level of rapport as first-teamers, I have higher hopes for Cam for this year at least. Dynasty wise, really tough to predict.

Stats with Cutler (Targets - Rec - Yards - TD)
3-2-24-0
2-1-24-0
2-1-50-1
4-4-49-0

Stats with Hoyer
5-4-28-0
12-9-130-1
15-11-113-0

Stats with Barkley
2-1-12-0*
9-2-19-0
4-3-67-0
8-6-72-1
13-9-104-0
12-9-135-0
6-4-61-0 (1 TD pass thrown)

* This was the game against Green Bay when Hoyer was injured in the first quarter. The Bears literally did nothing all night, so probably not fair to count that game as meaning anything.

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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby maxhyde » Tue May 23, 2017 1:30 pm

White for me and not even close
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby JJDubya » Tue May 23, 2017 2:10 pm

I went looking for an article to support my beliefs, and found one to undermine them. Do with this what you will. I'm still holding hope, mainly because I'm holding shares.

http://rotoviz.com/2017/05/2017-air-yar ... ith-wr-32/

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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby MrBalloonHands » Tue May 23, 2017 5:30 pm

Goddard wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 1:33 pm
Meredith for me. He's actually produced.
Same. I have been burned too many times "waiting for the great pumpkin" ala Linus. Some guys stay hurt. I'm hopeful K White is not one of them but give me production.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Plank » Wed May 24, 2017 12:24 pm

Kevin White news:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bear ... vin-white/

http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/2 ... g-at-otas/

Articles are pretty much saying they are being cautious with White, but I was like aw man ... here we go. :P But there's no new injury. As an owner I was ready for a few fluff pieces to make me feel much better, but nooooo... not in May.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Sterling Archer » Wed May 24, 2017 3:05 pm

Vcize wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 12:02 pm
Why do we think Meredith has no upside? He put up 68-888-4 last year in essentially 12 games as the WR1 despite a miserable 3 game stretch in the middle, all in basically his first time stepping on an NFL field.

Rod Smith was also an UDFA WR with an unremarkable athletic profile who had a similar 1st year as a starter (79-1020-4 in 14 starts, basically the same per start stats as Meredith). He had 100 catches for 1600 yards the next season.

I'm not saying it's in any way likely, it's a long shot, but is it really any more of a long shot than Kevin White becoming the next.....I dunno, is there any receiver that's ever missed 28 games in their first two years and went on to become great?

I own two shares of White and none of Meredith so I hope White is the guy there, but at this point I think they're both pretty low upside dart throws. At least we know Meredith knows how to play football. In White's brief time out there I thought I was watching Cordarrelle Patterson but with more injuries.
The game has changed in the past 20 years so stats back then =/= stats now, plus your stats are wrong: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... itRo01.htm
His first year starting was 70-1180-12 which was 8th in the NFL in yards and 2nd in TDs. So that was a massive year.

But basically my thinking on Meredith is that he pulled an Aiken. He was the last man standing and he was decent. If he had a legitimate WR1 opposite him last year, he doesn't put up those numbers. Plus, looking at some splits, 56% of his fantasy points came while his team was trailing by 2+ scores. I agree there's a chance he's an undrafted gem, but more likely than not, his stats last year were a product of circumstance.

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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Friction » Wed May 24, 2017 3:49 pm

WhatWouldDitkaDo wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 2:53 pm
Friction wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 7:27 pm
Bears should be behind a lot this year and beyond possibly, leading to some garbage time receiving stats too.
WR debate aside, why do you say the defense will be bad? Assuming most of the starters are healthy, I would project the CHI defense in the top half of the league. Not dominant by any means, but not terrible either.
I did not even mean that so much that the d will be terrible. I actually think they will do better than the majority of people do, i think. It is more that i believe their offense/qb will have some struggles early in the game and we all know that three and outs, bad field position, and the d being on the field often will generally lead to points for the opposition. By no means am i talking 2015 Jacksonville garbage time, but i can see them behind a good portion of the year. Even if it just means 4th quarter catch up and garbage time, fantasy match ups are a lot about piling up meaningless (in real football) stats in the final quarter.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Plank » Wed May 24, 2017 4:22 pm

The turnover in the secondary is a bit concerning... Demps is a quality addition at FS and Amos has played well, .. Corners are suspect, Prince is on his journeyman tour and Fuller isn't battle tested at all .. and I think Callahan came on strong in the slot last year .. guess we'll see.. at best they are paper thin in the defensive backfield.. LeBlanc played well for a UDFA, Cooper didn't seem all that dependable in ARI, but did make some big plays, Johnathan Banks can't play ...
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed May 24, 2017 4:33 pm

Sterling Archer wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 3:05 pm
I agree there's a chance he's an undrafted gem, but more likely than not, his stats last year were a product of circumstance.
That is a possibility. However, his stats last season were very good and not fluky. I was skeptical of Meredith as well, but he did very well last season. Bears QB's were actually better when they targeted him (100.1 passer rating). Not to mention, he's a very sound route runner. If you go back and watch most of his receptions, he's getting open frequently. Meredith is likely going to see 100+ targets and be the preferred possession receiver.

White is more talented and has a higher draft pedigree, and I was a huge fan of his coming out of college. However, he's at a huge disadvantage because he's raw and hasn't played many games. Also, he's the same age as Meredith. If White can play well next season after missing 88% of his first two seasons, then his upside is higher than we previously thought.

If you're someone who wants to hit a home run, even if it means striking out, then buy White.
If you're someone who just wants to get on base by any means necessary, then buy Meredith.

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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby DLF3000 » Wed May 24, 2017 5:17 pm

The Bears suck but I'm a Meredith guy. White can't stay on the field - when you string a few years together like that, I'm out.

There's always exceptions, sure. Like Jordan Reed. I hate that guy.

So for me it's more about your fantasy GM injury tolerance than it is talent vs. production.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Kramer » Wed May 24, 2017 5:53 pm

White for upside. Meredith if you need someone safe to start this year.
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Re: C. Meredith or K. White

Postby Paul Crewe » Wed May 24, 2017 8:57 pm

I own stock in Cam, but would probably still opt for White as the player with the higher (perceived) ceiling.

That said, I'm curious why people are so dismissive of Cam. He doesn't have draft pedigree as an UDFA, but he didn't play WR until his junior year at Illinois State. Even with a great senior year, the sample size was small, making him a virtual unknown, and he also had the small school bias working against him. Given the fact that he's only been a WR for four years total, there's still plenty of room to grow. And it's not like he looked bad last year. He showed well despite the Bears' revolving sh*t show at QB and overall lack of talent.

Not saying he's going to be the next Rod Smith, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him as Kamar Aiken 2.0 either.
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