Diontae Johnson vs Christian Kirk

[SN9-7Titans]

Both have the same age
Both of the same athletic build
Johnson had 14 more targets over the season, and lacks the TDs, but it's obvious that the steelers had a QB change mid-season and Pickett is a rookie.

in 2022:
Johnson (147 Targets - 86 catches)
Kirk (133 Targets - 84 catches) - Ridley coming in 2023

I'd rather put DJ into the "buy low" box, and Kirk into the "sell high" one.

Contract:
Diontae Johnson relatively cheap 2024 and wont be cut unless he's looking for an extension.
The jags have an out after 2023 to save up to 10 million in cap which will roughly be the time when they will look to sign Tlaw to a big contract. Are they trying to mutually adjust his contract and keep him? i doubt it.

So i think it's two more years for DJ at the Steelers and 1 year for Kirk at the Jags. Is it worth it to keep Kirk regardless?

[Gator Sens]

Johnson really regressed last year and a rebound in his system is more difficult to see than Kirk continuing to play well. Kirk likely has the value currently too. I would rather have Kirk based on the QBs and systems.

[SN9-7Titans]

Johnson really regressed last year and a rebound in his system is more difficult to see than Kirk continuing to play well. Kirk likely has the value currently too. I would rather have Kirk based on the QBs and systems.

Disagree, you get probably one year of Kirk on the jags, while Ridley will play in 2023, and the likely add a rookie wr as well. This is just another example where you want to take the guy who finished #11 in ppr now, instead of taking the guy who is cheap, has his position and targetshare secure for 2 years, and will have a whole off-season to sync up with his rookie QB.

"Rebound in this system" what? How is this system hard to rebound when it's a rookie QB who's trajectory is upward and DJ saw almost 150 targets.... Lmao. Their goal will be to invest in their offensive line to give Pickett more time in the pocket. What you are saying makes no sense.

That's why Kirk is easyly a sell high and DJ the hold/buy low.

[Gator Sens]

Johnson really regressed last year and a rebound in his system is more difficult to see than Kirk continuing to play well. Kirk likely has the value currently too. I would rather have Kirk based on the QBs and systems.

Disagree, you get probably one year of Kirk on the jags, while Ridley will play in 2023, and the likely add a rookie wr as well. This is just another example where you want to take the guy who finished #11 in ppr now, instead of taking the guy who is cheap, has his position and targetshare secure for 2 years, and will have a whole off-season to sync up with his rookie QB.

"Rebound in this system" what? How is this system hard to rebound when it's a rookie QB who's trajectory is upward and DJ saw almost 150 targets.... Lmao. Their goal will be to invest in their offensive line to give Pickett more time in the pocket. What you are saying makes no sense.

That's why Kirk is easyly a sell high and DJ the hold/buy low.

Appreciate the laughing at my view of it...

So is the whole point of this post to get someone to agree with your line of thinking? If you prefer Johnson, why even ask or make the post?

There is no saying that Kirk gets cut, Ridley is good or effective coming back/when he comes back or that Jacksonville adds a top-end WR.

What you are saying is a for sure however is that Pittsburgh will improve their line, Pickett will improve drastically, Pickens will not eat into Johnson's target share at all and that Pittsburgh will not add WR competition.

Seems like you want Johnson to be the clear answer here with all the "what ifs" in play for both assets. So move Kirk and acquire Johnson.

[Prison_Mike]

Yeah why the hostility? lol

They're clearly both polarizing players. Kirk has simply done it more recently than Diontae.

If I were to choose between the two, I'd probably want Diontae but that isn't without acknowledging the hurdles that he'll have to overcome. One of the biggest being the system Gator mentioned and the QB (I'm not a believer in Pickett at all). There are so many variables to each player's future success that they're pretty much a tossup

[SN9-7Titans]

Yeah why the hostility? lol

because "and a rebound in his system is more difficult to see" is no reason whatsoever. It doesnt say anything. it's no reason whatsoever. I am fine if you say f.e. that Diontae is a bum and he cant catch, accepted, or whatever, but to claim that a player with 140 targets cant rebound in this system???????????? What?.... !? ... It's exact comments like this that tick me off in fantasy football forums where people try to sound smart when they are everything but. I might come off like an asshole here, sry, but what he says make no sense. None. Zero. And if i'd ask for specifics, i know he has none. It's just talking smart in generalities. I'd rather take only his vote than reading this sort of stuff. He takes Kirk over DJ. Got it. But please.

[moishetreats]

Well that happened fast.

[Jigga94]

Don't ask a question and then act like a douche

[Valhalla]

"I am definitely right and if you disagree with me it's because you're dumb and that isn't my fault. Oh and I know I'm being a dick but that's tough, you'll have to deal with it, and it's a little deserved anyways because like I pointed out, your point of view is dumb and offers nothing."
-- says the common 20-25yo mind.

[SN9-7Titans]

"I am definitely right and if you disagree with me it's because you're dumb and that isn't my fault. Oh and I know I'm being a dick but that's tough, you'll have to deal with it, and it's a little deserved anyways because like I pointed out, your point of view is dumb and offers nothing."
-- says the common 20-25yo mind.

Don't stay on topic, attack op personally now. Classy.

[murphysxm]

"I am definitely right and if you disagree with me it's because you're dumb and that isn't my fault. Oh and I know I'm being a dick but that's tough, you'll have to deal with it, and it's a little deserved anyways because like I pointed out, your point of view is dumb and offers nothing."
-- says the common 20-25yo mind.

Don't stay on topic, attack op personally now. Classy.

You are new enough I hope you listen and learn from this. Gator is as good of a resource as this site has. You asked a question, got feedback and attacked it and the intelligence of who posted it. Posting is a way to listen to others thoughts and information, it is not a way to validate what you think. I personally agree with what Gator said and also feel you are coming across in a way that isn't going to help you get feedback moving forward.

[SN9-7Titans]

"I am definitely right and if you disagree with me it's because you're dumb and that isn't my fault. Oh and I know I'm being a dick but that's tough, you'll have to deal with it, and it's a little deserved anyways because like I pointed out, your point of view is dumb and offers nothing."
-- says the common 20-25yo mind.

Don't stay on topic, attack op personally now. Classy.

You are new enough I hope you listen and learn from this. Gator is as good of a resource as this site has. You asked a question, got feedback and attacked it and the intelligence of who posted it. Posting is a way to listen to others thoughts and information, it is not a way to validate what you think. I personally agree with what Gator said and also feel you are coming across in a way that isn't going to help you get feedback moving forward.

this is hilarious because still no one is explaining how DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system.... you said you agree with this statement, so you should know what that means. So please, what SPECIFICALLY does he mean when he claims that DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system. I'll monitor this thread until i read something that actually contributes to this topic.

[Valhalla]

...

this is hilarious because still no one is explaining how DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system.... you said you agree with this statement, so you should know what that means. So please, what SPECIFICALLY does he mean when he claims that DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system. I'll monitor this thread until i read something that actually contributes to this topic.

I'm not sure this is even worth responding to, but sure.

I'll start with defending Gator.

Johnson really regressed last year and a rebound in his system is more difficult to see than Kirk continuing to play well. Kirk likely has the value currently too. I would rather have Kirk based on the QBs and systems.

He didn't claim DJ would be unable to bounce back. He said (in his opinion) the path to DJs bounce-back was likely more difficult than the path to Kirk's situation sustaining. I entirely get this point and agree with it.
What specifically makes it a difficult path? The faith (or lack thereof) in the QB, I suppose would be a big one. The team as a whole seeming to lean more defense and ground game, control the clock is another. They are not the Steelers of Roethlisberger's prime days. Not until a QB proves otherwise. Roethlisberger wasn't a great passer, but he WAS a passer that would pepper his WRs and give them a lot of chances.

I would still take DJ personally, because I think his long-term upside is higher, simply because I like his talent more. You ask me which one, in '23, will have the better season, I'm pressed to pick but would probably point to Kirk. Which one will have the better career? I'd bet on DJ.

[Prison_Mike]

...

this is hilarious because still no one is explaining how DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system.... you said you agree with this statement, so you should know what that means. So please, what SPECIFICALLY does he mean when he claims that DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system. I'll monitor this thread until i read something that actually contributes to this topic.

I'm not sure this is even worth responding to, but sure.

I'll start with defending Gator.

Johnson really regressed last year and a rebound in his system is more difficult to see than Kirk continuing to play well. Kirk likely has the value currently too. I would rather have Kirk based on the QBs and systems.

He didn't claim DJ would be unable to bounce back. He said (in his opinion) the path to DJs bounce-back was likely more difficult than the path to Kirk's situation sustaining. I entirely get this point and agree with it.
What specifically makes it a difficult path? The faith (or lack thereof) in the QB, I suppose would be a big one. The team as a whole seeming to lean more defense and ground game, control the clock is another. They are not the Steelers of Roethlisberger's prime days. Not until a QB proves otherwise. Roethlisberger wasn't a great passer, but he WAS a passer that would pepper his WRs and give them a lot of chances.

I would still take DJ personally, because I think his long-term upside is higher, simply because I like his talent more. You ask me which one, in '23, will have the better season, I'm pressed to pick but would probably point to Kirk. Which one will have the better career? I'd bet on DJ.

I think it's safe to say people aren't responding further because they don't feel like it's worth their time to be attacked for an opinion that you asked them for lol

Anyway, bingo. What's in bold is what I assumed Gator was referring to when I said I agreed with him about the word you hate so much - "system." PIT was bottom half of the league in passing last season and have a QB that many people (myself included) do not believe in, for various reasons. As Valhalla mentions, they've always had a defensive-leaning philosophy and have a RB that is looked at as a workhorse.

Again, I'd prefer DJ. But one could easily make the argument for either WR. Which is why I'm so confused as to why you're so pressed about someone even considering having a Kirk preference. It's not like you asked about Diontae Johnson vs. Dante Pettis

[MacDaddy123]

Don't stay on topic, attack op personally now. Classy.

You are new enough I hope you listen and learn from this. Gator is as good of a resource as this site has. You asked a question, got feedback and attacked it and the intelligence of who posted it. Posting is a way to listen to others thoughts and information, it is not a way to validate what you think. I personally agree with what Gator said and also feel you are coming across in a way that isn't going to help you get feedback moving forward.

this is hilarious because still no one is explaining how DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system.... you said you agree with this statement, so you should know what that means. So please, what SPECIFICALLY does he mean when he claims that DJ is unable to bounce back in the steelers system. I'll monitor this thread until i read something that actually contributes to this topic.

You seem a tad slow, so I will make this simple for you. Big Ben retired, and took his weak arm with him.
I expect DJ to get more than 0 TD's in 2023, but not a lot more.
Pickett showed in 2022 that he likes his big targets, Muth and Pickens, in the red zone.
Pickett also has a stronger arm, so he is not limited to check downs to Najee and DJ , who Big Ben fed like he owed them money.

Sure, DJ had almost 150 targets in 2022, a 13% reduction in targets compared to 2021 with weak armed Ben.

DJ has always been a very inefficient WR, and needs huge volume of targets to produce.
Any decrease in volume will hurt an inefficient WR/RB.
I do not see DJ's volume rising again unless Big Ben makes a comeback.
So the DJ bounce back you are waiting on requires Ben back at QB, not likely.

DJ could get some more TD's in 2023, could even climb as high as mid WR2, but that is about the ceiling.
His WR1 days left when Ben retired.

Meanwhile Kirk's QB seems to be getting better.
Laugh all you want, you are obviously the uneducated one here.