Should CMC be the MVP?

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Mjvb5
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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Mjvb5 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:06 am

damn Russell can’t get any respect

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Jigga94 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:19 am

Mjvb5 wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:06 am damn Russell can’t get any respect
He was right there with Lamar until he fell off the 2md half of the year. I really don't see how Lamar won't win unanimously

Russ had 1000 more passing yards, but 5 less passing TD, 4 less rushing TD and 850 less rushing yards. Russ also played 1 more game. Ravens went 14-2 are the #1 seed. Seahawks went 11-5, didn't win their division and also lost the head to head matchup. I just don't see anyone could honestly vote Russ. He had a great season, but MVP? C'mon man!

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Straycatz2 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:28 am

MVP is all about improving the team and usually that means wins in many ppl eyes. So its easy to give it to LJ.
They do have a award for the stat stuffers though so CMC should definitely win the offensive player of the year. Also along those lines Henry deserves to be there as well. He was fun to watch destroying opponents.

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby kmbryant09 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:31 am

Ray Finkle wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:50 am I thought as a people, we agreed to disagree on this topic a loooong time ago. I would venture to guess that if Josh Allen were in Baltimore in Lamar’s place, he could’ve led them to 11ish wins and a division title, maybe more. Put someone in CMC’s place and maybe they win 2 games, nobody knows.

I’m not arguing result. Lamar is the MVP and there is no question about it in MY mind. I just feel that if someone has a differing opinion, that’s fine too and even understandable.
There's been plenty of analysis that people much smarter than you and me have done that show how minimal an RB's impact is in today's NFL.

I suggest you read up on some of them. I don't say that in a condescending way, I just think it's very enlightening to see how we can measure impact, value, points added, value above replacement, etc.

Don't get me wrong - CMC is an absolute stud and the perfect RB for today's NFL. I'd take him over any other RB in the league. But his impact on games is very negligible compared to QBs. After all, he just put together perhaps the single greatest season any RB has ever had, and his team won 5 games all year. Even further, the team went 5-3 with Cam Newton (even though he wasn't playing his best football), and 0-8 with Kyle Allen - yet CMC was basically the same player. Goes to show that QB play leads to wins & losses more than any single position in professional sports.
10-team/.5 PPR/5 Pts per Passing TD. Start 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLEX (rb/wr/te)
QB: J. Hurts, K. Murray
RB: Bi. Robinson, D. Henry, D. Achane, , J. Cook, Z. Charbonnet, T. Chandler, R. Johnson, K. Mitchell, J.K. Dobbins, T. Allgeier, J. McLaughlin, S. Tucker, T. Bigsby
WR: G. Wilson, B. Aiyuk, J. Waddle, T. Higgins,, Z. Flowers, Di. Johnson, K. Toney, A. Iosivas
TE: K. Pitts, E. Engram, C. Okonkwo, G. Dulcich

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby mild » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:33 pm

2018 NFL Patrick Mahomes Kansas City Chiefs
2017 NFL Tom Brady New England Patriots
2016 NFL Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons
2015 NFL Cam Newton Carolina Panthers
2014 NFL Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers
2013 NFL Peyton Manning Denver Broncos
2012 NFL Adrian Peterson Minnesota Vikings
2011 NFL Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers
2010 NFL Tom Brady New England Patriots
2009 NFL Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts
2008 NFL Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts
2007 NFL Tom Brady New England Patriots
2006 NFL LaDainian Tomlinson San Diego Chargers
2005 NFL Shaun Alexander Seattle Seahawks

2004 NFL Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts
2003 NFL Steve McNair Tennessee Titans
2003 NFL Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts
2002 NFL Rich Gannon Oakland Raiders
2001 NFL Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams
2000 NFL Marshall Faulk St. Louis Rams
1999 NFL Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams

Is he worthy of it? Yes.
Will he win it? Lol. No.

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:38 pm

And that season from AP was insane. He was almost superhuman in his effort, especially at the end when he singlehandedly took them into the playoffs. Only ever seen one other RB win a game like that, and it was Barry Sanders on a MNF versus the Cowboys, when they were the All World team. And he beat them.

I don't like AP, but gotta give him props for that performance.

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Friction » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:25 am

AD was crazy too because it was almost all strictly running the ball, since he did not catch or pass block particularly well.
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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Kcarr » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:57 am

Yes, running backs are more replaceable and QBS are much less so so I get the idea that the best QB in the league should win MVP. If we are judging the actual most valuable player then it is the clearly the best QB as that position just hold so much valuable in today's league. That said, I don't know that Lamar's season was really as historically great as people make it out to be. It was a very good season and pretty clearly the best one that we have seen this year but I think fantasy value skews opinions to make it appear better than it was because so many of the yards and TDs were gained by running rather than passing. In reality 6 QBs this year contributed more yards than Lamar did. He did have more TDs and a really good TD to turnover ratio so should win MVP this year but 43 TDs isn't really a historically great once in a lifetime number either.
4th and long: ppr, 10 team, qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, dl, dl, lb, lb, db, db, dflex, dflex

QB: Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor, Jared Goff
RB: Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliot, Theo Riddick, D'Onta Foreman, James Conner, Jamal Williams
WR: Alshon Jeffrey, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Keenan Allen, Jordan Matthews, Cole Beasley, Robby Anderson, Corey Davis, Breshad Perriman, Eli Rogers
TE: Eric Ebron, , David Njoku, Jack Doyle
K: Will Lutz
DL: Frank Clark, Danielle Hunter
LB: Luke Kuechley, Bobby Wagner, Jordan Hicks, Mark Barron, Darron Lee
DB: Sean Davis, Morgan Burnett,

IR: Clayton Geathers, Quincy Enunwa, Raekwon McMillan

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:51 am

Kcarr wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:57 am Yes, running backs are more replaceable and QBS are much less so so I get the idea that the best QB in the league should win MVP. If we are judging the actual most valuable player then it is the clearly the best QB as that position just hold so much valuable in today's league. That said, I don't know that Lamar's season was really as historically great as people make it out to be. It was a very good season and pretty clearly the best one that we have seen this year but I think fantasy value skews opinions to make it appear better than it was because so many of the yards and TDs were gained by running rather than passing. In reality 6 QBs this year contributed more yards than Lamar did. He did have more TDs and a really good TD to turnover ratio so should win MVP this year but 43 TDs isn't really a historically great once in a lifetime number either.
Why wasn't it historically great?? He's the undoubted MVP and it was easily the best rushing season for a QB and he led his team to 14-2 and broke a lot of records. Most rushing yards by a QB and most rushing yards by a team. Pretty good year... He also had some of the best passing stats on the year as well. Maybe it wasn't as good as Mahomes year last year? It's apples to oranges. Sit back and enjoy the show

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Kcarr » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:42 am

Jigga94 wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:51 am
Kcarr wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:57 am Yes, running backs are more replaceable and QBS are much less so so I get the idea that the best QB in the league should win MVP. If we are judging the actual most valuable player then it is the clearly the best QB as that position just hold so much valuable in today's league. That said, I don't know that Lamar's season was really as historically great as people make it out to be. It was a very good season and pretty clearly the best one that we have seen this year but I think fantasy value skews opinions to make it appear better than it was because so many of the yards and TDs were gained by running rather than passing. In reality 6 QBs this year contributed more yards than Lamar did. He did have more TDs and a really good TD to turnover ratio so should win MVP this year but 43 TDs isn't really a historically great once in a lifetime number either.
Why wasn't it historically great?? He's the undoubted MVP and it was easily the best rushing season for a QB and he led his team to 14-2 and broke a lot of records. Most rushing yards by a QB and most rushing yards by a team. Pretty good year... He also had some of the best passing stats on the year as well. Maybe it wasn't as good as Mahomes year last year? It's apples to oranges. Sit back and enjoy the show
Yes, he will win mvp. That isn't by itself historically great because someone does it every year. Yes, the team will win 14 games and he is part of that but that is a team measure and has been matched or beat several times before. In terms of statistically measuring qbs in a league which has openly changed the rules to increase yards and scoring though does he make the top 100 in offensive yards in a season? He is better in td terms because of his rushing tds but there have been quite a few better. All that he really has is his run/pass ratio is different than we have seen. That may be a historical statement and is even true but I dont consider it a statement of greatness
4th and long: ppr, 10 team, qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, dl, dl, lb, lb, db, db, dflex, dflex

QB: Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor, Jared Goff
RB: Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliot, Theo Riddick, D'Onta Foreman, James Conner, Jamal Williams
WR: Alshon Jeffrey, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Keenan Allen, Jordan Matthews, Cole Beasley, Robby Anderson, Corey Davis, Breshad Perriman, Eli Rogers
TE: Eric Ebron, , David Njoku, Jack Doyle
K: Will Lutz
DL: Frank Clark, Danielle Hunter
LB: Luke Kuechley, Bobby Wagner, Jordan Hicks, Mark Barron, Darron Lee
DB: Sean Davis, Morgan Burnett,

IR: Clayton Geathers, Quincy Enunwa, Raekwon McMillan

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:11 am

My case wasn't MVP = historically great but it correlates...

I think you're overthinking it. Has anyone previously done what Lamar did this year? Nope... Historically great season.

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Patsfan86 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:57 am

Kcarr wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:57 am Yes, running backs are more replaceable and QBS are much less so so I get the idea that the best QB in the league should win MVP. If we are judging the actual most valuable player then it is the clearly the best QB as that position just hold so much valuable in today's league. That said, I don't know that Lamar's season was really as historically great as people make it out to be. It was a very good season and pretty clearly the best one that we have seen this year but I think fantasy value skews opinions to make it appear better than it was because so many of the yards and TDs were gained by running rather than passing. In reality 6 QBs this year contributed more yards than Lamar did. He did have more TDs and a really good TD to turnover ratio so should win MVP this year but 43 TDs isn't really a historically great once in a lifetime number either.
50 Tds has been done 3 times now so thats not a historically great once in a life time number either but im sure you were ready to crown Mahomes the goat for that last offseason. " What lamar did was historically great, more historically great than Mahomes. A QB running running for that many yards has never been done before, 50 Tds has been done multiple times. Lamar just did it unconventionally

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Ray Finkle » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:28 am

Hell, even if I didn’t know any of the stats, I would say he had a historic season just from watching Baltimore games. What they did to the NFL this season was a joke.

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby Lotto4Life » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:13 pm

What's his fWAR+?

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Re: Should CMC be the MVP?

Postby dynastyninja » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:03 pm

I'll take "useless arguments" for 500, Alex


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