The Era of the Scrambling QB!

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby Phaded » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:35 am

I think you also have to factor in how much offenses have evolved, or perhaps how much defenses have devolved?

The increase in passing statistics is far from a secret, which is inevitably a factor in these running quarterbacks looking like better passers.

I also wouldn't call 4 quarterbacks a new era especially when there are 28 other starters in the league.

Consider the fact that one has been in the league for 8 years, one could be argued they are not a big scrambler (Watson), one is a rookie, and one is in their first year as a full time starter.

There is still time for things to go very south for the latter two ala RG3, Kaep, Vick, Tebow, etc..

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:48 am

Ultimately the NFL is prisoner to the talent that College Football provides them, and College what HS provides them. Those lower levels are developing and sending up a new kind of QB so that's what the NFL has to work with. The top athletes are wanting/being allowed to play QB now instead of other positions, because QB has the biggest impact on the game and you want your best athlete to be in the position to have the greatest impact on the game.

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby sloth8u » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:06 am

if the scrambling qb's can stay healthy, there will be jobs. I don't know that I would call it an era just yet. I sense this refers to decent rushing numbers by qb's in general or maybe how lamar and a handful of others show a willingness to run? I would not put lamar's rushing ability in a class with qb's….maybe that's just me, but I think he's an outlier in this discussion.

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby jenkins.math » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:54 am

This whole idea that all of a sudden teams are taking their best athlete and letting them play QB isn't new at all. This has been done for decades at the pee wee level on up to HS. In fact, unless you have a legit QB with an arm, most of the HS QBs are also the team's best athlete. Whatever college team you cheer for, I bet at least 20% of your WRs and DBs played QB at some point in HS. That isn't what has changed.

Obviously the rules have made it easier to put up numbers, but I think its the coaches that have changed. Now more than ever coaches are building offenses that utilize a QB's legs. They are putting these guys into similar systems that they had in college. What killed the mobile QB 10 years ago was the coaches trying to make Mike Vick sit in the pocket and survey the field and make the right read. He was never good at that. Mike Vick wasn't going to beat teams the same way Peyton Manning did and vice versa. Now coaches are simplifying the reads to get the ball out quick. People want to lump Lamar, Wilson, Murray and Watson in together but they are all asked to do totally different things by their teams. That doesn't mean that all 4 can't be successful, but trying to lump 4 athletic mobile non white QBs together and saying they are the same is a lazy comparison.
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:44 pm

Never said they are the same... They just all threaten defenses and hurt defenses with their legs. Russ Wilson and Kyler Murray and Tua when he gets on his feet again all play the same kind of smart ball, they run to extend plays and sometimes take a chunk of yards on the ground, but safely. Watson ain't fast like them. He does t have their natural skillset as a runner or even as a passer. Lamar is more like Vick. Ridiculously fast and agile, runs with reckless abandon and aggression. But also takes a lotta risks and poundings. That's 4 of the best 6-7 QBs in the league. Screw the bottom 2/3rds, they are chopped liver.

Mahomes is probably not a good add to the list. He's more like Aaron Rodgers, mobile, but not a scrambler who takes chunks of yards. I shouldn't have added him.

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby jenkins.math » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:45 pm

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:44 pm
Never said they are the same... They just all threaten defenses and hurt defenses with their legs. Russ Wilson and Kyler Murray and Tua when he gets on his feet again all play the same kind of smart ball, they run to extend plays and sometimes take a chunk of yards on the ground, but safely. Watson ain't fast like them. He does t have their natural skillset as a runner or even as a passer. Lamar is more like Vick. Ridiculously fast and agile, runs with reckless abandon and aggression. But also takes a lotta risks and poundings. That's 4 of the best 6-7 QBs in the league. Screw the bottom 2/3rds, they are chopped liver.

Mahomes is probably not a good add to the list. He's more like Aaron Rodgers, mobile, but not a scrambler who takes chunks of yards. I shouldn't have added him.
Woah..... Don't be a prisoner to the moment here. Kyler Murray is a top 7 QB in the league after 13 games? 2 years ago people said the same about Wentz. Last year and last offseason it was Baker Mayfield. Where do you have those guys now?

I would also hold off on crowning Lamar as well. This season he has been amazing. If I had a vote he would be my MVP and I think he has been the most exciting player to watch this season. But Jared Goff was putting up incredible numbers about 15 months ago too.

Progression isn't always linear. While they have the ability to be that, no way should they be put up there right now. There is way too small of a sample size for me to put Lamar and Murray as top 6-7 QBs. They will be drafted as such in redraft next season and will be viewed that way in FF in general, but my goodness. Lamar I can somewhat get, but Murray???
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby grandmabetty » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:40 pm

I took him to mean those are the 4 of the best 6 or 7 "scrambling" or mobile QBs in the league
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Qb- Kyler Murray, Brees, Roethlisberger
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:37 am

Who would you put above Kyler Murray easily?

My Top 8 QBs for 2020:

Mahomes
Wilson
Lamar Jackson
Deshaun Watson
Dak Prescott (been surprisingly good)
Drew Brees (for the 1-2 years he's still around)
Kyler Murray (rookie with terrible protection and revolving door of WRs and RBs)
Aaron Rodgers (has scored fewer fantasy points than Murray in equal # of games)

Next Best:
Stafford (has been really really good when healthy, wouldn't fault anyone for putting him in Top 8)
Kirk Cousins (he's been as healthy as Murray, and has scored fewer fantasy points this season, so nope)
Big Ben (he's a top 10 QB if he comes back in 2020, but not sure I'd take him over Murray for a 2020 campaign)
Josh Allen (yeah right, he's looking better, but Murray is way ahead in terms of what hes shown so far)
Jameis Winston (decent fantasy QB, horrible real life QB, probably gonna get cut by Bucs)
Carson Wentz (has potential, but hasn't lived up to it this season, done less with more)
Baker (looked okay last season, but has experienced a major sophomore slump)
Jimmy GQ (just decent)
Derek Carr (just decent)
Goff (barf)
Matt Ryan (could turn it around if his protection improves)
Darnold (huge disappointment so far)

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby jenkins.math » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:11 am

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:37 am
Who would you put above Kyler Murray easily?

My Top 8 QBs for 2020:

Mahomes
Wilson
Lamar Jackson
Deshaun Watson
Dak Prescott (been surprisingly good)
Drew Brees (for the 1-2 years he's still around)
Kyler Murray (rookie with terrible protection and revolving door of WRs and RBs)
Aaron Rodgers (has scored fewer fantasy points than Murray in equal # of games)

Next Best:
Stafford (has been really really good when healthy, wouldn't fault anyone for putting him in Top 8)
Kirk Cousins (he's been as healthy as Murray, and has scored fewer fantasy points this season, so nope)
Big Ben (he's a top 10 QB if he comes back in 2020, but not sure I'd take him over Murray for a 2020 campaign)
Josh Allen (yeah right, he's looking better, but Murray is way ahead in terms of what hes shown so far)
Jameis Winston (decent fantasy QB, horrible real life QB, probably gonna get cut by Bucs)
Carson Wentz (has potential, but hasn't lived up to it this season, done less with more)
Baker (looked okay last season, but has experienced a major sophomore slump)
Jimmy GQ (just decent)
Derek Carr (just decent)
Goff (barf)
Matt Ryan (could turn it around if his protection improves)
Darnold (huge disappointment so far)
I feel like you are dancing back and forth between real life and fantasy to rank these guys. If you're talking strictly fantasy, Drew Brees is not a top 8 QB. He isn't now in PPG and won't be next season. If you're talking real life then absolutely he is one of the best.

But on your next best list, why would you list Josh Allen as a "yeah right"? He is out performing Murray right now in FF and over the last 6 weeks of 2018 he was the QB1. Not a QB1, but the QB1. He isn't that good in real life, but in fantasy I'll take Allen next year over Murray. Especially when you consider the price of each. The disrespect Josh Allen gets from the fantasy community is nuts. He has averaged 1 less point per game than Mahomes this season.

Also Matt Ryan was a top 5 QB until his ankle injury. Give me Ryan over Murray for 2020 regardless and again he will be much cheaper.

Then you have the injury wildcards in Big Ben and Cam. Both of those guys could be top 8 pretty easily in 2020 if they return healthy.

Your first post claiming he was a top 6-7 QB, I read it as in real life currently. I guess that isn't what you meant? If you're talking strictly fantasy for 2020, I bet you Murray will get taken as a top 5 QB in redraft, but I'd take 8 ahead of him pretty easily. Your list sub out Brees for Allen and Ryan. Also look at the sophomore slumps of guys in the past when they had some new offense. Teams get film on these guys and figure stuff out. It's going to be harder for him (and Lamar which is why I would sell him this offseason if I owned him) next season. I said I thought Murray's floor this year was a QB1, which it looks like I was correct. That's all based on past history of running QBs and their FF finishes and was easy to call if you do enough data mining. Year 2 for those guys is far less easy to predict.
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby CGW » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:29 am

Didn't the NFL get to see Lamar in action for half of the season last year as well?
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QB | Cousins, Darnold, Trubisky
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WR | Cooks, Golladay, Godwin, Kirk, M. Brown, Arcega-Whiteside, Renfrow, Slayton, Reynolds
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby Weknownothing86 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:32 am

CGW wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:29 am
Didn't the NFL get to see Lamar in action for half of the season last year as well?
Yup, and he only got better, i bet he does the same next year as well. He knows he has flaws as a passer and works at them. I honestly dont think we are near Lamars ceiling. I dont think he will match the rushing yards he is gonna have this season again but i do think he progresses as a passer, could see 35 Passing Tds in his future as well as 10 or so rushing. Mahomes is a great Qb, still the best in the league but i think we saw his ceiling last year for fantasy. I dont think we have seen Lamars for fantasy.
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby CGW » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:38 pm

That's what I was getting at. Teams have seen him now for 2 seasons. It's obviously not as easy as watching a little tape to figure out. Don't get me wrong, some teams will undoubtedly find a successful defense against him sooner or later, but he's set up for success in the near term.
12 Team | Superflex | PPR | 6pt passing TD
25 Roster Spots
QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, WR, TE, FL, SF

QB | Cousins, Darnold, Trubisky
RB | Mixon, Barber, R. Freeman, Singletary, Ballage, D. Thompson, Gaskin
WR | Adams, Evans, Golladay, Cooper, Washington, D. Johnson, Conley, Amendola, A. Miller
TE | Herndon, Andrews, Everett, Sternberger
2020 | 1.03, 5.09
2021 | 1st, 1st, 3rd

10 Team | Superflex | PPR
25 Roster Spots
QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, WR, TE, FL, SF

QB | Rodgers, Murray, Foles, Minshew
RB | Chubb, Montgomery, Guice, Singletary, Ballage, Edmonds, Murray, R. Jones, D. Thompson
WR | Cooks, Golladay, Godwin, Kirk, M. Brown, Arcega-Whiteside, Renfrow, Slayton, Reynolds
TE | Henry, Herndon, Andrews, Everett
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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:47 pm

Phaded wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:39 am
Don't forget about Josh Allen. Although he has done a bit less of it this year.

Mobility has always been important, but I think a lot of the rule changes have made these guys a lot more viable because they are far more protected from the vicious hits.
I think you nailed it. I'd also add that we're just flat out getting better athletes who are learning the position. It'll be interesting to see if we get more baseball converts like Wilson, Murray, and Mahomes. These guys throw the ball much different and are killers on the run.

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Re: The Era of the Scrambling QB!

Postby ArrylT » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:55 pm

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:32 am
Mike Vick still can't slide, even on a Slip n Slide.
Is that a reference to this?

https://phalsephillysports.wordpress.co ... p-n-slide/


:ewink:

Btw as a hint when reading it think of Onion. :wink:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..


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