NE Patriots owner Robert Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

[Orenthal Shames]

The more I learn about this story, and how these women were very likely victims of sex-trafficking... likely coerced to perform these acts... well, I think if that is proven to be true, the NFL needs to come down very hard on Kraft. I think they need to force him to sell the team. A slap on the wrist, even a ban of a season, would simply not be adequate.

I was listening to a story about this on NPR this afternoon, and someone made the case that the men who frequent these types of joints are well aware of what is happening, that the women are not there on a voluntary basis. And for someone who has billions of dollars, the most successful NFL franchise in recent memory, and a very public persona of a widower, well, again, this dude is a sick, sick puppy. I sure hope people see beyond his disingenueous facade.

Meh. Everyone has different sensibilities I suppose, but in the grand scheme I doubt the public really cares. Jim Irsay is crazy as a bed bug and kept his team through all the boozing and blow.

There's sketchy sex to be had all over this great nation of ours. Anybody visiting a skeezy massage parlor, strip club or Craigslist escort doesn't necessarily expect or condone involvement in an underground human trafficking ring. That's a bit of a reach imo.

The bolded text above just seems awfully reactionary. The old dude was just trying to pay for an old fashioned from someone less fortunate. It is what it is. Whether that offends you or not doesn't change the fact that it is a pretty regular occurrence in the US and not at all synonymous with sex slavery. Does it happen, sure. Could he have just picked the wrong establishment in the armpit of the US to get his, absolutely.

[FantasyFreak]

My team name of "Fellated Balls" after the Deflated Balls incident has even more relevance, now.

[FantasyFreak]

The more I learn about this story, and how these women were very likely victims of sex-trafficking... likely coerced to perform these acts... well, I think if that is proven to be true, the NFL needs to come down very hard on Kraft. I think they need to force him to sell the team. A slap on the wrist, even a ban of a season, would simply not be adequate.

I was listening to a story about this on NPR this afternoon, and someone made the case that the men who frequent these types of joints are well aware of what is happening, that the women are not there on a voluntary basis. And for someone who has billions of dollars, the most successful NFL franchise in recent memory, and a very public persona of a widower, well, again, this dude is a sick, sick puppy. I sure hope people see beyond his disingenueous facade.

Meh. Everyone has different sensibilities I suppose, but in the grand scheme I doubt the public really cares. Jim Irsay is crazy as a bed bug and kept his team through all the boozing and blow.

There's sketchy sex to be had all over this great nation of ours. Anybody visiting a skeezy massage parlor, strip club or Craigslist escort doesn't necessarily expect or condone involvement in an underground human trafficking ring. That's a bit of a reach imo.

The bolded text above just seems awfully reactionary. The old dude was just trying to pay for an old fashioned from someone less fortunate. It is what it is. Whether that offends you or not doesn't change the fact that it is a pretty regular occurrence in the US and not at all synonymous with sex slavery. Does it happen, sure. Could he have just picked the wrong establishment in the armpit of the US to get his, absolutely.

OK. Not siding with either, necessarily, but what I have bolded, I need to comment on. If this was Joe Blow, I could understand it. But to think the owner of the Pats, 6 time SB champs and multi billionaire just strolled into the wrong joint by accident seems far fetched to me. Maybe you're right, but you'd think he'd have intel on this stuff, with so much reputation on the line. Who knows, maybe he was drunk/high and felt like getting loose. For a man of his stature however, he got sloppy, and I somehow doubt it's the first time this has happened.

[Orenthal Shames]

The more I learn about this story, and how these women were very likely victims of sex-trafficking... likely coerced to perform these acts... well, I think if that is proven to be true, the NFL needs to come down very hard on Kraft. I think they need to force him to sell the team. A slap on the wrist, even a ban of a season, would simply not be adequate.

I was listening to a story about this on NPR this afternoon, and someone made the case that the men who frequent these types of joints are well aware of what is happening, that the women are not there on a voluntary basis. And for someone who has billions of dollars, the most successful NFL franchise in recent memory, and a very public persona of a widower, well, again, this dude is a sick, sick puppy. I sure hope people see beyond his disingenueous facade.

Meh. Everyone has different sensibilities I suppose, but in the grand scheme I doubt the public really cares. Jim Irsay is crazy as a bed bug and kept his team through all the boozing and blow.

There's sketchy sex to be had all over this great nation of ours. Anybody visiting a skeezy massage parlor, strip club or Craigslist escort doesn't necessarily expect or condone involvement in an underground human trafficking ring. That's a bit of a reach imo.

The bolded text above just seems awfully reactionary. The old dude was just trying to pay for an old fashioned from someone less fortunate. It is what it is. Whether that offends you or not doesn't change the fact that it is a pretty regular occurrence in the US and not at all synonymous with sex slavery. Does it happen, sure. Could he have just picked the wrong establishment in the armpit of the US to get his, absolutely.

OK. Not siding with either, necessarily, but what I have bolded, I need to comment on. If this was Joe Blow, I could understand it. But to think the owner of the Pats, 6 time SB champs and multi billionaire just strolled into the wrong joint by accident seems far fetched to me. Maybe you're right, but you'd think he'd have intel on this stuff, with so much reputation on the line. Who knows, maybe he was drunk/high and felt like getting loose. For a man of his stature however, he got sloppy, and I somehow doubt it's the first time this has happened.

Famous people do the same dumb stuff as us regular folk. The notability doesn't change what makes us tick.

He could just as easily as gotten busted with the same accusations from a high priced escort service.

I do agree that this wasn't likely his first time though. Jupiter, FL is a far cry from Nevada.

[Cult of Dionysus]

I've got no issues with someone engaging a prostitute who is voluntarily selling his or her services. But this is 2019, and a lot of focus in recent years has been on the horrors of sex trafficking, and while your typical Joe Blow could be excused for not being aware of it, I think a guy like Kraft doesn't get a pass. And I bet some more stories about his indulgences will come out to fill in just what a despicable person this guy is.

BTW, the NPR thing was an interview of the sheriff who is responsible for the area where the massage parlour in question is located. So not some leftwing pundit... Though as a regular listener, NPR has plenty of those.

Lastly, there's absolutely no equivalence between Irsay doing coke and Kraft having a likely victim of sex trafficking giving him a BJ or whatever he got, nor anyone using a high priced escort, who typically I presume are doing it voluntarily.

[Orenthal Shames]

I've got no issues with someone engaging a prostitute who is voluntarily selling his or her services. But this is 2019, and a lot of focus in recent years has been on the horrors of sex trafficking, and while your typical Joe Blow could be excused for not being aware of it, I think a guy like Kraft doesn't get a pass. And I bet some more stories about his indulgences will come out to fill in just what a despicable person this guy is.

BTW, the NPR thing was an interview of the sheriff who is responsible for the area where the massage parlour in question is located. So not some leftwing pundit... Though as a regular listener, NPR has plenty of those.

Lastly, there's absolutely no equivalence between Irsay doing coke and Kraft having a likely victim of sex trafficking giving him a BJ or whatever he got, nor anyone using a high priced escort, who typically I presume are doing it voluntarily.

I guess i just don't see how Kraft, no matter how connected, would know any better than you or I whether or not a place is a part of a sex trafficking ring or just a sketchy place where people do extracurriculars for money. High end escort services are also full of human trafficking victims. It's not like any of them are accredited by the BBB.

[FantasyFreak]

I've got no issues with someone engaging a prostitute who is voluntarily selling his or her services. But this is 2019, and a lot of focus in recent years has been on the horrors of sex trafficking, and while your typical Joe Blow could be excused for not being aware of it, I think a guy like Kraft doesn't get a pass. And I bet some more stories about his indulgences will come out to fill in just what a despicable person this guy is.

BTW, the NPR thing was an interview of the sheriff who is responsible for the area where the massage parlour in question is located. So not some leftwing pundit... Though as a regular listener, NPR has plenty of those.

Lastly, there's absolutely no equivalence between Irsay doing coke and Kraft having a likely victim of sex trafficking giving him a BJ or whatever he got, nor anyone using a high priced escort, who typically I presume are doing it voluntarily.

I guess i just don't see how Kraft, no matter how connected, would know any better than you or I whether or not a place is a part of a sex trafficking ring or just a sketchy place where people do extracurriculars for money. High end escort services are also full of human trafficking victims. It's not like any of them are accredited by the BBB.

Very true. But I still have my serious doubts.

[Cult of Dionysus]

I guess i just don't see how Kraft, no matter how connected, would know any better than you or I whether or not a place is a part of a sex trafficking ring or just a sketchy place where people do extracurriculars for money. High end escort services are also full of human trafficking victims. It's not like any of them are accredited by the BBB.

Two points.

First, I don’t think of myself or you as a joe blow type. I am, and I’d wager you are, well educated, follow the news, generally aware of most major social issues, including human trafficking, etc.

Second, it is widely reported that many of these women did not speak English. That would be a huge tip-off.

And given that a few wealthy men got snagged, my guess is they were talking about this club, referring each other. Why else would rich guys go to a pretty low class massage parlor. I mean, it’s not like Kraft drove by and just by coincidence decided to go in and see if he could get a quickie... Either they knew or exhibited a wanton disregard.

[Ice]

I guess i just don't see how Kraft, no matter how connected, would know any better than you or I whether or not a place is a part of a sex trafficking ring or just a sketchy place where people do extracurriculars for money. High end escort services are also full of human trafficking victims. It's not like any of them are accredited by the BBB.

Two points.

First, I don’t think of myself or you as a joe blow type. I am, and I’d wager you are, well educated, follow the news, generally aware of most major social issues, including human trafficking, etc.

Second, it is widely reported that many of these women did not speak English. That would be a huge tip-off.

And given that a few wealthy men got snagged, my guess is they were talking about this club, referring each other. Why else would rich guys go to a pretty low class massage parlor. I mean, it’s not like Kraft drove by and just by coincidence decided to go in and see if he could get a quickie... Either they knew or exhibited a wanton disregard.

Just Don't buy your argument. The little head only knows one thing........ There are many millions in this country that don't speak English.

The odds are probably 95% plus that sex trafficking was the last thing on his mind. Sex was probably on his mind but not sex trafficking. He wasn't cited for sex trafficking..... You are going after the wrong person on that charge.

BTW, why the F are the police doing surveillance on a place for over month if they were so concerned about the young non English speaking prostitutes? If they coudn't speak English as you say it should have taken then about as long as it took for you to write your post to shut it down and arrest the perpetrators responsible. For that matter why does the state even allow legit store front massage parlors?

Kraft is a story because he is famous. The untold MILLIONS annually are not a story. Regardless, sex may have been on his mind but sex trafficking.....UNLIKELY. That is a Bridge too far IMO.....

Back to Football

[FantasyFreak]

I guess i just don't see how Kraft, no matter how connected, would know any better than you or I whether or not a place is a part of a sex trafficking ring or just a sketchy place where people do extracurriculars for money. High end escort services are also full of human trafficking victims. It's not like any of them are accredited by the BBB.

Two points.

First, I don’t think of myself or you as a joe blow type. I am, and I’d wager you are, well educated, follow the news, generally aware of most major social issues, including human trafficking, etc.

Second, it is widely reported that many of these women did not speak English. That would be a huge tip-off.

And given that a few wealthy men got snagged, my guess is they were talking about this club, referring each other. Why else would rich guys go to a pretty low class massage parlor. I mean, it’s not like Kraft drove by and just by coincidence decided to go in and see if he could get a quickie... Either they knew or exhibited a wanton disregard.

Just Don't buy your argument. The little head only knows one thing........ There are many millions in this country that don't speak English.

The odds are probably 95% plus that sex trafficking was the last thing on his mind. Sex was probably on his mind but not sex trafficking. He wasn't cited for sex trafficking..... You are going after the wrong person on that charge.

BTW, why the F are the police doing surveillance on a place for over month if they were so concerned about the young non English speaking prostitutes? If they coudn't speak English as you say it should have taken then about as long as it took for you to write your post to shut it down and arrest the perpetrators responsible. For that matter why does the state even allow legit store front massage parlors?

Kraft is a story because he is famous. The untold MILLIONS annually are not a story. Regardless, sex may have been on his mind but sex trafficking.....UNLIKELY. That is a Bridge too far IMO.....

Back to Football

Due process. The way lawyers work, if you don't dot your I's and cross your T's, you can lose it all. Not saying that's the case, but it's true. Many a guilty man has walked free because of this.

"Back to Football?" If that's the case, quote the OP, as this thread has nothing to do with Football, or Dynasty at all (as he basically stated in his original post). It is a political matter involving someone in the NFL, and it's not even a player. OR, you could ask the mods to close the thread or move it to the "off topic" forum, where political type threads are located.

Just saying, you can't thwart COD for delving further into it as a political/societal issue. That's exactly what it is. It's not about football at all. This entire thread isn't about football, but a political/societal issue about a man involved with it.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Well, it's also about Tom Brady, cuz if Kraft would be forced to sell his team, I'd say a possibility at this point but not more probable than not, Tom Brady will not be getting that cough, cough $100m consulting position that he is slated to get from Kraft after he retires...

Lol

[Friction]

I saw he got there on the day of the AFC Champ game at 11am and was gone by 11:15. Got blown and manual (handy?) in that 15 minutes. That is efficient and really on task with a tight schedule, and still 10 minutes more than most of us would have been...

Life of a Billionaire, blowjobs in the morning in Florida, AFC Championship Games in Kansas City at night.

Livin the good life.

[Orenthal Shames]

I guess i just don't see how Kraft, no matter how connected, would know any better than you or I whether or not a place is a part of a sex trafficking ring or just a sketchy place where people do extracurriculars for money. High end escort services are also full of human trafficking victims. It's not like any of them are accredited by the BBB.

And given that a few wealthy men got snagged, my guess is they were talking about this club, referring each other. Why else would rich guys go to a pretty low class massage parlor. I mean, it’s not like Kraft drove by and just by coincidence decided to go in and see if he could get a quickie... Either they knew or exhibited a wanton disregard.

I don't at all think Kraft went there by coincidence. He was there to get off. That is 100% for sure. Just because a place is known to offer things "off the menu", doesn't automatically mean it's involved in sex trafficking.

Strip clubs, sketchy massage parlors, escorts all operate on the opposite end of the wholesome fun spectrum. How seedy is it ultimately is TBD. Are you seeing a single mom trying to pay for community college? An addict looking for money to score? A sex slave?

That's the unknown and the risk you take when you pay to play.

[ArrylT]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... licitation

This article says that he visited 2x in a 24h period.

[Orenthal Shames]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... licitation

This article says that he visited 2x in a 24h period.

Hopefully he gave them a good Yelp review.