Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

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Hottoddies
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby Hottoddies » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:19 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:57 pm
Hottoddies wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:31 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:15 pm


Eagles, Cowboys (even in a down year for them), Indy, NE, NO, Pittsburgh definitely were better, and there were others on the same level or better. The 10th best OL out of 32 is not "elite", and that is the range they were in, probably a little lower.

Edit: Rams are another one you can put on that list
I make it a habit of watching every game and from my observation I would add Oakland, San Fransisco, Seattle, Minnesota, Baltimore, and Jacksonville to the list of teams with a better offensive line than Cleveland.
This conversation is based upon last year, not this year, and last year Cleveland had a better OL than all of those teams except maybe Baltimore, SF was solid too, but Minnesota was garbage. This year all of those teams are quality OLs, and Cleveland is terrible.
My bad. I missed where it was about last year's line. And, yes , Cleveland's offensive line was much more effective last year. Not elite but pretty darn good all the same. I think it's important to remember that football is a team sport and that any individual's performance is highly dependent on his teammates. So it's no surprise that Mayfield is struggling this year. It may be a bit premature to bury any of Cleveland's players at this point.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby ArrylT » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:37 am

Hottoddies wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:19 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:57 pm
Hottoddies wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:31 pm


I make it a habit of watching every game and from my observation I would add Oakland, San Fransisco, Seattle, Minnesota, Baltimore, and Jacksonville to the list of teams with a better offensive line than Cleveland.
This conversation is based upon last year, not this year, and last year Cleveland had a better OL than all of those teams except maybe Baltimore, SF was solid too, but Minnesota was garbage. This year all of those teams are quality OLs, and Cleveland is terrible.
My bad. I missed where it was about last year's line. And, yes , Cleveland's offensive line was much more effective last year. Not elite but pretty darn good all the same. I think it's important to remember that football is a team sport and that any individual's performance is highly dependent on his teammates. So it's no surprise that Mayfield is struggling this year. It may be a bit premature to bury any of Cleveland's players at this point.
Absolutely. It is something that absolutely needs to be taken into account, whether we as fantasy owners are talking about Mayfield and/or Beckham or other players. :thumbup:
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby Shcritters » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:21 pm

ArrylT wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:37 am
Hottoddies wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:19 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:57 pm


This conversation is based upon last year, not this year, and last year Cleveland had a better OL than all of those teams except maybe Baltimore, SF was solid too, but Minnesota was garbage. This year all of those teams are quality OLs, and Cleveland is terrible.
My bad. I missed where it was about last year's line. And, yes , Cleveland's offensive line was much more effective last year. Not elite but pretty darn good all the same. I think it's important to remember that football is a team sport and that any individual's performance is highly dependent on his teammates. So it's no surprise that Mayfield is struggling this year. It may be a bit premature to bury any of Cleveland's players at this point.
Absolutely. It is something that absolutely needs to be taken into account, whether we as fantasy owners are talking about Mayfield and/or Beckham or other players. :thumbup:
I agree it is way too early to bury them, but I do have concerns about Baker. Playing behind that bad O-line has to be messing with his confidence, which, like it or not, is a big part of who he is. He’s fearless... or was... and I’m worried that taking a pounding and having to run for his life will impact him long term. The flip side is it may give him a little humility and cause him to buckle down and end up making him better in the long run. We shall see!
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby FantasyFreak » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:42 pm

Apparently the Browns didn't see it as a genius move. Dorsey joining Kitchens on the curb.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby DJB » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:39 pm

Browns are a team full of selfish me players. Until actual leadership exists there nothing will change.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:45 pm

Mike McCarthy is really their only option, they need a coach with a proven track record and you know is capable of doing the job. He gets a lot of hate, but he was very successful for an extended period of time, and was a big part of Rodgers' development, and he's just a known quantity that will bring stability to a franchise that has had none.

Hearing rumors they might be after Mike Lafleur (younger brother of Matt) though, which would just be more of the same nonsense they've been doing since the Browns returned to the league. The franchise is a joke.

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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:38 pm

Also speculation that the Browns could offer Josh McDaniels the head coaching/GM combo job and give him complete control. That didn't work well in Denver, and would likely be another face-plant by Cleveland. I hope this one doesn't come to pass.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby Ice » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:14 pm

The Browns sucked many of us in thinking they could rise above years of dysfunction......

They are a complete mess; Hard to imagine a front line coach wanting anything to do with Paul DePodesta and Haslam.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:44 pm

DePodesta had them on the right track, or at least had a plan along with Sashi Brown, but Haslem got too impatient (as he does) and pulled the plug before they were able to see the plan through. Dorsey then gorged himself on all the cap space and draft capital Sashi had built up for him and completely ruined it. They need to commit to a true 5 year plan minimum and stop with all this insane turnover, how are you supposed to win with so much instability?

They'll continue with rolling in a new regime every 1-3 years and remain the league laughingstock though.

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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby jenkins.math » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:03 pm

Haslam is a Tennessee alum and massive donor. He had a lot of pull within the athletic department with football coaches in the past. Particularly when they were the laughing stock of college football. As he has become more engrossed in Cleveland he has become less involved in the UT athletic department, which is funny because the Tennessee football program is now headed in a better direction with Haslam gone.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby ericanadian » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:33 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:44 pm
DePodesta had them on the right track, or at least had a plan along with Sashi Brown, but Haslem got too impatient (as he does) and pulled the plug before they were able to see the plan through. Dorsey then gorged himself on all the cap space and draft capital Sashi had built up for him and completely ruined it. They need to commit to a true 5 year plan minimum and stop with all this insane turnover, how are you supposed to win with so much instability?

They'll continue with rolling in a new regime every 1-3 years and remain the league laughingstock though.
Haslam screwed them from day one by forcing Hue Jackson on them. The man refused to work with Cody Kessler, and pushed in Kizer before he was ready after giving away a huge amount of preseason snaps (which may have helped develop Kizer, or Kessler) to Brock Lobster who was certain to be cut. He then buried Sashi Brown by getting Haslam to buy into bringing in AJ McCarron, which Brown killed.
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Re: Browns being Browns again? Or bold genius move? Kitchens

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:40 pm

ericanadian wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:33 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:44 pm
DePodesta had them on the right track, or at least had a plan along with Sashi Brown, but Haslem got too impatient (as he does) and pulled the plug before they were able to see the plan through. Dorsey then gorged himself on all the cap space and draft capital Sashi had built up for him and completely ruined it. They need to commit to a true 5 year plan minimum and stop with all this insane turnover, how are you supposed to win with so much instability?

They'll continue with rolling in a new regime every 1-3 years and remain the league laughingstock though.
Haslam screwed them from day one by forcing Hue Jackson on them. The man refused to work with Cody Kessler, and pushed in Kizer before he was ready after giving away a huge amount of preseason snaps (which may have helped develop Kizer, or Kessler) to Brock Lobster who was certain to be cut. He then buried Sashi Brown by getting Haslam to buy into bringing in AJ McCarron, which Brown killed.
Yup, that's what he does. I think DePodesta and Brown would have gotten things going on the right track if Haslem had empowered them to do it right and gave them the time to do so.


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