Hunt accused of DV

[OhCruelestRanter]

No. Hunt’s life won’t be ruined by a six game suspension any more than Zeke. I was speaking more generally when I said “It’s not just the nfl...it’s society in general” directly before stating that “a man’s life can be ruined by a simple accusation.” Those game checks are a drop in the bucket for the star athletes, and they aren’t gonna lose their job over it. However, in the real world, a person can actually lose their livelihood, their reputation, and even their family/personal relationships by false accusations.

You telling me that those Duke lacrosse players don’t have to deal with those questions for the rest of their lives?

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/20 ... e-they-now
The Duke Lacrosse guys are: a high end real estate developer, a Wharton grad/venture capitalist, a trader at Deutsche, and an Emory Law grad working at a large NYC law firm. This is one of the most egregious false accusations in recent history and I'd say they're doing fine. Obviously going through that whole ordeal was terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but none of their lives were "destroyed."

To your point, estimates for what percentage of DV reports are false range from 2-8%, and only a fraction of those are "deliberate falsehoods" for some secondary/malicious gain. It's weird that so many people have their lives actually destroyed by being a victim of domestic violence, and yet you're focusing on the really, really small segment of the population that has a false accusation levied against them.

This story is nothing remotely like either EE's case or the Duke Lacrosse case, and should have zero impact on Hunt's stock, unless there's WAY more that hasn't come out yet.

Maybe they're doing fine financially, but do we really know how they're coping mentally? Half joking cuz it sounds like their lives are pretty good now, but they still shouldn't have gone through what they did and who really knows how "ok" they are...or how much better their lives could have been if they didn't go through that.

Right- but the point is that this guy is focusing on their plight and not the situation of the people who are actually victims of this kind of stuff. My exact words were "Obviously going through that whole ordeal was terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anybody"

[bigchiefbc]

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/20 ... e-they-now
The Duke Lacrosse guys are: a high end real estate developer, a Wharton grad/venture capitalist, a trader at Deutsche, and an Emory Law grad working at a large NYC law firm. This is one of the most egregious false accusations in recent history and I'd say they're doing fine. Obviously going through that whole ordeal was terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but none of their lives were "destroyed."

To your point, estimates for what percentage of DV reports are false range from 2-8%, and only a fraction of those are "deliberate falsehoods" for some secondary/malicious gain. It's weird that so many people have their lives actually destroyed by being a victim of domestic violence, and yet you're focusing on the really, really small segment of the population that has a false accusation levied against them.

This story is nothing remotely like either EE's case or the Duke Lacrosse case, and should have zero impact on Hunt's stock, unless there's WAY more that hasn't come out yet.

We're way off-topic now, but I feel like that's a bit misleading. The "2-8%" false-accusation rate that gets thrown around is only the percentage of cases where they have been able to establish evidence showing it to be a false accusation. It does not include any of the cases where there was no evidence either way and the case was simply dismissed. A certain unknowable percentage of those cases are also false, and there's no good way to determine that percentage. But just flatly saying that "only 2-8% of accusations are false" is certainly not the whole story.

[clarion contrarion]

nor does the tons of unreported cases that never reach authorities so those surely balance the scales back the other way yes?

[slaughterrt]

No one's life is being ruined over a six game suspension and Zeke had three instances of violence against his girlfriend according to the NFL investigation. I highly doubt we'll see the same hammer applied here, though Goodell is a bit of an idiot sometimes.

No. Hunt’s life won’t be ruined by a six game suspension any more than Zeke. I was speaking more generally when I said “It’s not just the nfl...it’s society in general” directly before stating that “a man’s life can be ruined by a simple accusation.” Those game checks are a drop in the bucket for the star athletes, and they aren’t gonna lose their job over it. However, in the real world, a person can actually lose their livelihood, their reputation, and even their family/personal relationships by false accusations.

You telling me that those Duke lacrosse players don’t have to deal with those questions for the rest of their lives?

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/20 ... e-they-now
The Duke Lacrosse guys are: a high end real estate developer, a Wharton grad/venture capitalist, a trader at Deutsche, and an Emory Law grad working at a large NYC law firm. This is one of the most egregious false accusations in recent history and I'd say they're doing fine. Obviously going through that whole ordeal was terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but none of their lives were "destroyed."

To your point, estimates for what percentage of DV reports are false range from 2-8%, and only a fraction of those are "deliberate falsehoods" for some secondary/malicious gain. It's weird that so many people have their lives actually destroyed by being a victim of domestic violence, and yet you're focusing on the really, really small segment of the population that has a false accusation levied against them.

This story is nothing remotely like either EE's case or the Duke Lacrosse case, and should have zero impact on Hunt's stock, unless there's WAY more that hasn't come out yet.

You can’t seriously think that because someone is successful financially that they are fine personally/mentally. And you certainly can’t think that going through a false accusation of rape doesn’t have any long lasting effects on a person.

That being said, I think you are missing my point. Society is so quick to crucify a person just because someone simply accuses that person of wrongdoing...with no proof, with no trial, with no due process. And that person who is non guilty is treated and punished as if they were guilty.

I’m not playing down the true victims of domestic violence, or the short and long term effects that they have to deal with. That would be ridiculous. I believe that anyone who commits domestic violence should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But I believe in due process and that 100% of cases are innocent until proven guilty.

You state that 2-8% of cases are false accusations. In my opinion, that’s 2-8% too many. Do you not agree?

[OhCruelestRanter]

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/20 ... e-they-now
The Duke Lacrosse guys are: a high end real estate developer, a Wharton grad/venture capitalist, a trader at Deutsche, and an Emory Law grad working at a large NYC law firm. This is one of the most egregious false accusations in recent history and I'd say they're doing fine. Obviously going through that whole ordeal was terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but none of their lives were "destroyed."

To your point, estimates for what percentage of DV reports are false range from 2-8%, and only a fraction of those are "deliberate falsehoods" for some secondary/malicious gain. It's weird that so many people have their lives actually destroyed by being a victim of domestic violence, and yet you're focusing on the really, really small segment of the population that has a false accusation levied against them.

This story is nothing remotely like either EE's case or the Duke Lacrosse case, and should have zero impact on Hunt's stock, unless there's WAY more that hasn't come out yet.

We're way off-topic now, but I hate when misleading stats are thrown around. The "2-8%" false-accusation rate that gets thrown around is only the percentage of cases where they have been able to establish evidence showing it to be a false accusation. It does not include any of the cases where there was no evidence either way and the case was simply dismissed. A certain unknowable percentage of those cases are also false, and there's no good way to determine that percentage. But just flatly saying that "only 2-8% of accusations are false" is certainly not the whole story.

Actually, nah. The reason it's a range is because it includes things like baseless accusations which can't be proven as well as accusations that even if they're true aren't a crime. Of course, all this pales in comparison to the number of unreported episodes of intimate partner violence and rape. I mean, sure, some people who are convicted are innocent, and some people who are acquitted are guilty, so you'll never know the exact number.

Anyways, what's it say about you that you're out here caping for dudes accused of sexual assault? Like in 2018, is this the hill you want to die on?

[OhCruelestRanter]

You can’t seriously think that because someone is successful financially that they are fine personally/mentally. And you certainly can’t think that going through a false accusation of rape doesn’t have any long lasting effects on a person.

That being said, I think you are missing my point. Society is so quick to crucify a person just because someone simply accuses that person of wrongdoing...with no proof, with no trial, with no due process. And that person who is non guilty is treated and punished as if they were guilty.

I’m not playing down the true victims of domestic violence, or the short and long term effects that they have to deal with. That would be ridiculous. I believe that anyone who commits domestic violence should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But I believe in due process and that 100% of cases are innocent until proven guilty.

You state that 2-8% of cases are false accusations. In my opinion, that’s 2-8% too many. Do you not agree?

Again man, what's it say about you that you're sitting here eagerly defending dudes accused of violence against women? What's it say about you that you need to reflexively side with those accused of violence against women?

Of course 2-8% is too many. I don't know what you're trying to say- nobody argues that false accusations are a good thing, just that they're pretty rare. False accusations are terrible not only because they damage the accused, but because they give mouth-breathing chuckleheads ammo to come forward and clutch their pearls, saying "won't anybody think of the man?" and, worst of all, it creates a climate where women don't report this bleep.

nor does the tons of unreported cases that never reach authorities so those surely balance the scales back the other way yes?

Good lord, please don't put yourself in a situation where clarion and I agree that you're wrong.

[Rasorin]

Of course false accusations are wrong. That said your callousness towards the real victims here is appalling. I have friend who wokred at a Women's Shelter and there is evil in this world, in our neighborhoods and homes.

A woman is a victim of domestic violence in the every 9 seconds in the US.

3 US women are murdered by their partners everyday.

15 million children are exposed to DV every year.

DV is only reported about 70% of the time.

i'm sure these women would love to have due process that you are so passionate to give men whenever women find the courage to speak up about their pain. Privilege and power is one sided here. Please do some research and have some compassion for victims before you talk about ruining lives.

[slaughterrt]

You can’t seriously think that because someone is successful financially that they are fine personally/mentally. And you certainly can’t think that going through a false accusation of rape doesn’t have any long lasting effects on a person.

That being said, I think you are missing my point. Society is so quick to crucify a person just because someone simply accuses that person of wrongdoing...with no proof, with no trial, with no due process. And that person who is non guilty is treated and punished as if they were guilty.

I’m not playing down the true victims of domestic violence, or the short and long term effects that they have to deal with. That would be ridiculous. I believe that anyone who commits domestic violence should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But I believe in due process and that 100% of cases are innocent until proven guilty.

You state that 2-8% of cases are false accusations. In my opinion, that’s 2-8% too many. Do you not agree?

Again man, what's it say about you that you're sitting here eagerly defending dudes accused of violence against women? What's it say about you that you need to reflexively side with those accused of violence against women?

Of course 2-8% is too many. I don't know what you're trying to say- nobody argues that false accusations are a good thing, just that they're pretty rare. False accusations are terrible not only because they damage the accused, but because they give mouth-breathing chuckleheads ammo to come forward and clutch their pearls, saying "won't anybody think of the man?" and, worst of all, it creates a climate where women don't report this bleep.

nor does the tons of unreported cases that never reach authorities so those surely balance the scales back the other way yes?

Good lord, please don't put yourself in a situation where clarion and I agree that you're wrong.

Accused does not equate to convicted. I support the legal constitutions/charters of many, many governments that include the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

[kadun2]

You can’t seriously think that because someone is successful financially that they are fine personally/mentally. And you certainly can’t think that going through a false accusation of rape doesn’t have any long lasting effects on a person.

That being said, I think you are missing my point. Society is so quick to crucify a person just because someone simply accuses that person of wrongdoing...with no proof, with no trial, with no due process. And that person who is non guilty is treated and punished as if they were guilty.

I’m not playing down the true victims of domestic violence, or the short and long term effects that they have to deal with. That would be ridiculous. I believe that anyone who commits domestic violence should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But I believe in due process and that 100% of cases are innocent until proven guilty.

You state that 2-8% of cases are false accusations. In my opinion, that’s 2-8% too many. Do you not agree?

Again man, what's it say about you that you're sitting here eagerly defending dudes accused of violence against women? What's it say about you that you need to reflexively side with those accused of violence against women?

Of course 2-8% is too many. I don't know what you're trying to say- nobody argues that false accusations are a good thing, just that they're pretty rare. False accusations are terrible not only because they damage the accused, but because they give mouth-breathing chuckleheads ammo to come forward and clutch their pearls, saying "won't anybody think of the man?" and, worst of all, it creates a climate where women don't report this bleep.

nor does the tons of unreported cases that never reach authorities so those surely balance the scales back the other way yes?

Good lord, please don't put yourself in a situation where clarion and I agree that you're wrong.

Accused does not equate to convicted. I support the legal constitutions/charters of many, many governments that include the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

I agree with slaughtert. Anyone can accuse another person of anything. That does not make that person guilty.

[slaughterrt]

Of course false accusations are wrong. That said your callousness towards the real victims here is appalling. I have friend who wokred at a Women's Shelter and there is evil in this world, in our neighborhoods and homes.

A woman is a victim of domestic violence in the every 9 seconds in the US.

3 US women are murdered by their partners everyday.

15 million children are exposed to DV every year.

DV is only reported about 70% of the time.

i'm sure these women would love to have due process that you are so passionate to give men whenever women find the courage to speak up about their pain. Privilege and power is one sided here. Please do some research and have some compassion for victims before you talk about ruining lives.

Please show me where I am bashing the “real victims” of domestic violence? Would you not say that victims of false allegations are victims as well? Or are they not as much of victim?

I’m not arguing that domestic violence happens. I’m not arguing that victims of domestic abuse are victims. But apparently a victim of false allegations of domestic abuse can’t be a victim? That seems pretty one sided. I have seen it personally, on both sides of the spectrum, so believe me I understand both sides of the argument. What I can’t figure out is why you guys are falsely accusing me (ironic I know) of being callous and “against” the victims of domestic violence just because I am defending the victims of false accusations. If you guys can’t see that defending one group of victims doesn’t automatically mean that I’m arguing against another group of victims, then I’m probably better off just ending the conversation here.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Of course false accusations are wrong. That said your callousness towards the real victims here is appalling. I have friend who wokred at a Women's Shelter and there is evil in this world, in our neighborhoods and homes.

A woman is a victim of domestic violence in the every 9 seconds in the US.

3 US women are murdered by their partners everyday.

15 million children are exposed to DV every year.

DV is only reported about 70% of the time.

i'm sure these women would love to have due process that you are so passionate to give men whenever women find the courage to speak up about their pain. Privilege and power is one sided here. Please do some research and have some compassion for victims before you talk about ruining lives.

Please show me where I am bashing the “real victims” of domestic violence? Would you not say that victims of false allegations are victims as well? Or are they not as much of victim?

I’m not arguing that domestic violence happens. I’m not arguing that victims of domestic abuse are victims. But apparently a victim of false allegations of domestic abuse can’t be a victim? That seems pretty one sided. I have seen it personally, on both sides of the spectrum, so believe me I understand both sides of the argument. What I can’t figure out is why you guys are falsely accusing me (ironic I know) of being callous and “against” the victims of domestic violence just because I am defending the victims of false accusations. If you guys can’t see that defending one group of victims doesn’t automatically mean that I’m arguing against another group of victims, then I’m probably better off just ending the conversation here.

I feel like coming out of the blue to yell "some men are falsely accused!" When that number is dwarfed by the number of women who don't come forward for fear of people like you not believing them is a really bad look.

It’s not just the nfl though. It’s society in general. A man’s life can ruined by a simple accusation, whether it’s true or not. Sad world we live in with no due process.

If you know somebody is being falsely accused, yeah, you should vigorously defend them. But saying that we have a societal problem where we're too quick to believe women that they're being abused, when a huge chunk of women don't come forward because that's actually not the case, is incredibly tone deaf. You're literally part of the environment and culture that suppresses women from seeking help.

Why do you think you're so quick to empathize with men accused of violence?

[slaughterrt]

Of course false accusations are wrong. That said your callousness towards the real victims here is appalling. I have friend who wokred at a Women's Shelter and there is evil in this world, in our neighborhoods and homes.

A woman is a victim of domestic violence in the every 9 seconds in the US.

3 US women are murdered by their partners everyday.

15 million children are exposed to DV every year.

DV is only reported about 70% of the time.

i'm sure these women would love to have due process that you are so passionate to give men whenever women find the courage to speak up about their pain. Privilege and power is one sided here. Please do some research and have some compassion for victims before you talk about ruining lives.

Please show me where I am bashing the “real victims” of domestic violence? Would you not say that victims of false allegations are victims as well? Or are they not as much of victim?

I’m not arguing that domestic violence happens. I’m not arguing that victims of domestic abuse are victims. But apparently a victim of false allegations of domestic abuse can’t be a victim? That seems pretty one sided. I have seen it personally, on both sides of the spectrum, so believe me I understand both sides of the argument. What I can’t figure out is why you guys are falsely accusing me (ironic I know) of being callous and “against” the victims of domestic violence just because I am defending the victims of false accusations. If you guys can’t see that defending one group of victims doesn’t automatically mean that I’m arguing against another group of victims, then I’m probably better off just ending the conversation here.

I feel like coming out of the blue to yell "some men are falsely accused!" When that number is dwarfed by the number of women who don't come forward for fear of people like you not believing them is a really bad look.

It’s not just the nfl though. It’s society in general. A man’s life can ruined by a simple accusation, whether it’s true or not. Sad world we live in with no due process.

If you know somebody is being falsely accused, yeah, you should vigorously defend them. But saying that we have a societal problem where we're too quick to believe women that they're being abused, when a huge chunk of women don't come forward because that's actually not the case, is incredibly tone deaf. You're literally part of the environment and culture that suppresses women from seeking help.

Why do you think you're so quick to empathize with men accused of violence?

Look, you are obviously getting all hot and bothered by this. Domestic violence is a hot button issue, as it should be. But the fact that you arguing a point to me that I’m not disagreeing with...it’s like you just want to argue for the sake of argument. And for some reason, you can’t get past the the idea that there can be more than one group of victims. Sure, the group of victims that are physically/mentally/emotionally abused in the situation are the larger group. But that doesn’t mean that the group of victims that are falsely accused of domestic violence are invalid.

You say yourself that “if you know someone is falsely accused, then you vigorously defend them.” Well, that applies to everyone. If you do some research, you can see how many countries/constitutions/governments include the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

So because I support the constitution and believe that people are innocent until proven guilty...that means that I’m suppressing women?

You do realize that men are victims of domestic violence as well right? Or are they not really victims because they are a smaller group than women?

[Rasorin]

I am going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you are incredibly ignorant to some of the complexity of DV as opposed being a dog-whistling supporter to abusers and a woman haters (yes we all know men can be victims of DV too.)

Most of the time the constitutional due process you refer to does not protect women from DV. Due process you speak of can take months if not years, keeping women in a position where their safely is in serious jeopardy. This means we remove women and children (when they are ready) from physical and psychological abuse and we trust that they are not turning their lives upside down, leaving everything they have and own, enter a realm of shame and uncertainly, to just get their man.

Many women live with abuse for years before developing a plan to escape. They might not have access to bank accounts. They might not know where to go live. They might have a leave a job, their only source of income, to protect themselves, and their children from the horrors of their everyday life. Due process does not protect these people at the rate of speed necessary. When they speak to law enforcement hopefully to abuser is removed without due diligence. Usually there isn't a payoff for victims. When discussing high profile people, yes there could be payoff, but it comes with a lot baggage and shame.

[OhCruelestRanter]

I am going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you are incredibly ignorant to some of the complexity of DV as opposed being a dog-whistling supporter to abusers and a woman haters (yes we all know men can be victims of DV too.)

Most of the time the constitutional due process you refer to does not protect women from DV. Due process you speak of can take months if not years, keeping women in a position where their safely is in serious jeopardy. This means we remove women and children (when they are ready) from physical and psychological abuse and we trust that they are not turning their lives upside down, leaving everything they have and own, enter a realm of shame and uncertainly, to just get their man.

Many women live with abuse for years before developing a plan to escape. They might not have access to bank accounts. They might not know where to go live. They might have a leave a job, their only source of income, to protect themselves, and their children from the horrors of their everyday life. Due process does not protect these people at the rate of speed necessary. When they speak to law enforcement hopefully to abuser is removed without due diligence. Usually there isn't a payoff for victims. When discussing high profile people, yes there could be payoff, but it comes with a lot baggage and shame.

Again, this. Idk slaughter. None of this changes the fact that you're out here caping for dudes accused of domestic violence. You're the one who has to live with that. I'll gladly fall on the side of defending the victims.

Just know that you, personally, are literally part of the domestic violence problem in this country.

EDIT: We're pretty far off course now. Watching this dude stan for dudes accused of domestic violence is nauseating, and we're not talking about Hunt anymore (because it's a non-story). Time to lock this bad boy up.

[slaughterrt]