Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Raymond1974 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:37 am

Kapernick is an average QB,who would bring too much drama and negative attention to any team he joined. Fantasy purposes aside he did help me win the ship last year! 😀

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby AZK » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:38 am

JFever wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:16 am
This case will bring down the current CBA. Mark my words.
No chance. Collusion is rarely ever proven accurate, unless there are recordings or multiple emails that state exclusively that multiple parties are doing so. Still very hard to prove in court.
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Mjvb5 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:56 am

To me we really need to see the kind of money he was looking for before we can make any kind of decision. If a team didn't want to offer him 6-8M I get that. If they didnt want to offer him 2M--4M just to be a backup with low garuntees in case he became a distraction that I dont get.
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby dm1129 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:04 am

Neight wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:38 am
JFever wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:16 am
This case will bring down the current CBA. Mark my words.
No chance. Collusion is rarely ever proven accurate, unless there are recordings or multiple emails that state exclusively that multiple parties are doing so. Still very hard to prove in court.
I agree completely with this. Unless there are documented meetings/communications amongst the owners deciding to keep Kaep out of the league, there is virtually zero chance for Kaep's grievance to prevail. The reality is Kaep is not a good QB. The fact that RG3 is also not on a team only strengthens the idea that this is not collusion. The irony is with this grievance, Kaep has essentially ended his NFL career permanently. With injuries occurring weekly, it was quite possible he would have gotten a call at some point.
Last edited by dm1129 on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Lotto4Life » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:07 am

Has he been working on his game much since the end of last season?
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Pac_Eddy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:47 pm

Mjvb5 wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:56 am
To me we really need to see the kind of money he was looking for before we can make any kind of decision. If a team didn't want to offer him 6-8M I get that. If they didnt want to offer him 2M--4M just to be a backup with low garuntees in case he became a distraction that I dont get.
From what I've heard, he was asking for the veterans minimum before the season started. I doubt his price was always that low though.

He's easily better than several current starters and dozens of current backups. NFL GMs & owners can be spineless sometimes.
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby DJB » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:01 pm

The issue is that hes not talented like cam newton or Russel wilson here that's his largest obstacle.

Add in the sideshow and media gong show that would accompany him and he isnt worth it.

The NFL is about wins and he wouldn't be on my team as he isnt talented enough and hes too much of a distraction for the rest of the team .

It honestly wouldn't matter if he was purple, he isnt a good enough football player to endure the media show regardless of his racial political stance.

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Goddard » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:13 pm

DJB wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:01 pm
The issue is that hes not talented like cam newton or Russel wilson here that's his largest obstacle.

Add in the sideshow and media gong show that would accompany him and he isnt worth it.

The NFL is about wins and he wouldn't be on my team as he isnt talented enough and hes too much of a distraction for the rest of the team .

It honestly wouldn't matter if he was purple, he isnt a good enough football player to endure the media show regardless of his racial political stance.
Teams always say that they wouldn't want the "distraction," but I find that hard to believe. I think the media attention and the fact that he'd probably sell a lot of jerseys would be good for the NFL and that team. I can see why coaches or maybe even players (even though most players seem to be in support of Kaep) wouldn't want that, but it sounds like an excuse when it comes from owners.

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:15 pm

JFever wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:16 am
The little rich boy owners club... That is the problem. Rich buddy buddy crap. NO doubt about it. It's a public relations balancing act thing. If NFL players (in the past) participated in dog fighting, hit and run, vehicular homicide, domestic abuse, child abuse, theft, etc... and yet still get signed back into the league and on a team, THERE IS NO logical explanation as to why Kaepernick isn't on a team RIGHT NOW. This case will bring down the current CBA. Mark my words.
The logical explanation could simply be that Kaep wouldn't accept anything less than a guaranteed starting job. Which, if I'm an NFL team, I would not be handing to him.

Would he have signed on as a QB2 or QB3 in Indy, Dallas, Houston, etc? Maybe. Would he have accepted a $1-2M salary? Maybe. But maybe not. Maybe he only would sign if he was THE GUY, and if he was getting $10M+ per year.
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby jcc6fd » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Teams didn't sign him because of the pushback they would have gotten from their fan bases. Look at how crazy people are getting over those currently kneeling. Was there discrimination based on his social stances? Absolutely, but I don't know if collusion was necessary to prevent him from being hired for this reason. Every single owner would be able to look at this situation independently, see that they could lose money, and decide against it. The reality is that he's also not a big enough asset to overlook his perceived transgressions. Sure he's better than most if not all NFL backups, maybe he's better than a couple starters, but none of those teams are competing anyway and most would rather not risk anything for a backup player.

Personally think it's wrong, but don't know if it's illegal. If there was in fact collusion, I can only hope Kaep wins his case, but like others I'm skeptical that it's even possible.
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby maxhyde » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:20 pm

problem is Kaep really isn't good enough to start in the NFL without an offense being altered specifically for him. He also hasn't proven he is good enough in any offense to win without Harbaugh.

I think where his collusion case loses traction is RG3 is also out of the league and not getting workouts...not really a distraction off the field but he isn't really able to QB a team to win consistently. I mean the Browns were playing their current QB3 over RG3 last season
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Cowboysfan33 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:40 pm

maxhyde wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:20 pm
problem is Kaep really isn't good enough to start in the NFL without an offense being altered specifically for him. He also hasn't proven he is good enough in any offense to win without Harbaugh.

I think where his collusion case loses traction is RG3 is also out of the league and not getting workouts...not really a distraction off the field but he isn't really able to QB a team to win consistently. I mean the Browns were playing their current QB3 over RG3 last season

I agree with this. I never felt that Kaepernick was really all that good, other than the read-zone option stuff, which pretty much everyone knew that wouldn't last. He has trouble reading the defense and although he has a monster arm, it hurts him at times because he throws it too hard and lacks touch when he needs to do that. I think there's zero 0 chance that he can win a case like this but I do expect him to try it.

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby Plank » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:50 pm

I remember when he came in for Gabbert that last season, I was excited to see what he could do with Chip's offense, he was horrible ..

I get the argument that he might be a better QB than some of the back-ups, but that also doesn't mean that he would be a better fit for those teams .. Team building is just that, it takes 53 players to work toward a common goal, based on the distractions and a talent level not worth those distractions why would you bring him into your organization. To me it makes sense, I think too many are clinging to his run with Harbaugh on that Superbowl run, but that level of performance left with Harbaugh .. he hasn't been the same guy at all, I haven't even seen a glimpse of it ..

I dunno man, I'm tired of the whole thing quite honestly, I think what he put on film his last season is where he is at, and I can watch Hogan in CLE to see that .. (well maybe not after this last week vs Hou, heh)
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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby dynastyninja » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:04 pm

Collusion is definitely the wrong word here. The owners didn't all get together for a secret handshake meeting and agree to not sign Kaepernick. More likely, each team individually decided that bringing in Kaepernick was not worth the media circus that would follow (i.e. Tim Tebow). He's just not good enough to be worth all of the extra headache and drama. Right or not, I'd be willing to bet that's what's happening here. Kaep would not successfully lead an NFL team, so he's not worth them rostering.

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Re: Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

Postby jaykay22 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:19 pm

jcc6fd wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:24 pm
Teams didn't sign him because of the pushback they would have gotten from their fan bases. Look at how crazy people are getting over those currently kneeling. Was there discrimination based on his social stances? Absolutely, but I don't know if collusion was necessary to prevent him from being hired for this reason. Every single owner would be able to look at this situation independently, see that they could lose money, and decide against it. The reality is that he's also not a big enough asset to overlook his perceived transgressions. Sure he's better than most if not all NFL backups, maybe he's better than a couple starters, but none of those teams are competing anyway and most would rather not risk anything for a backup player.

Personally think it's wrong, but don't know if it's illegal. If there was in fact collusion, I can only hope Kaep wins his case, but like others I'm skeptical that it's even possible.
Excellent post, agreed 100%. As much as I think the treatment he's been receiving is absolutely wrong, I don't think 32 angry owners got together one evening in an undisclosed location and made a secret pact that Kaep wouldn't see another NFL field ever again as long as they were alive. So proving collusion in that sense in court is going to be a huge challenge for him, the NFLPA and their lawyers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure out of 32 owners there's probably a good bunch of them (most of them) who probably fundamentally disagree with him and his protest or just flat out don't understand it. Can't exactly imagine Jerrah, or Irsay, or Spanos, or even the McCaskeys here in Chicago being able to identify with being a victim of systematic racism and or police brutality. But ultimately I think these are just really rich men who care about being really rich men. That is their #1 priority and motivation for any decision being made. Anything that might make them and their brands/franchises lose potential dollars will be avoided as much as possible, unless it just makes entirely too much sense from a football standpoint to avoid, that is. And as previously mentioned, while Kaep is still talented enough to be a solid backup for most rosters and possibly even start in some others, his talent level just isn't enough to move the needle enough for NFL owners and GM's to be willing to withstand the storm that would ensue from part of their fanbase.

It sucks for Kaep, and I applaud him for his continued activism, but no way do I see him winning this in court.
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