"Insulting" counter

[dirkey]

I've a question for the good folk here.

I hold 1.04 in our draft. I'm hoping to be a contender. A rebuilding team holds pick 1.03 and 1.09, amongst other picks. Owner came to me and asked what it would require to move up from 9 to 4. I mentioned that I don't wish to move down, I view it as a premium pick (I have 4 guys who I'd be happy to take, so I can take whoever is left at my spot). So, I said it'd require an overpay.

He suggested he'd be willing to throw in a '22 2nd. I said that was way off (just to be clear, 1.09 & '22 2nd for 1.04). He asked how far off, I said "I'd take 2 future firsts" (let me be clear here, I don't wish to trade down. I made this clear and said it would be big overpay). I was told I was insulting, and that he's an experienced owner He said he would stretch to 2 future 2nds. And told me I have crazy value in my head if I don't believe 2 2nds are enough to add to 1.09 to get to 1.04.

Do bear in mind that this guy likes to talk smack, which I do like / admire, so I don't mind being called insulting / crazy etc. That's all fine. I'm just interested in people's opinions on the valuations.

So, what say the good folk? Am I crazy? Is 2 future 2nds enough to add to 1.09 to move to 1.04?

[honcho55]

You seem to have 1.10, and he has 1.03? Offer up 3 2nds to go from 10 to 3. Surely he has to take it, by his own logic.

For real though, you don’t have to defend your own valuations, it’s what the whole damn game is.

I would not take a pair of 2nds to move down.

[dirkey]

You seem to have 1.10, and he has 1.03? Offer up 3 2nds to go from 10 to 3. Surely he has to take it, by his own logic.

For real though, you don’t have to defend your own valuations, it’s what the whole damn game is.

I would not take a pair of 2nds to move down.

Haha, I did something similar. First I said, 1.10, 2 future 2nds and a future 3rd to move to 1.03. Then I said ... 1.10 and a future 1st. He told me I was off because our teams are in different situations.

I showed him various calcs ... he told me I rely on calcs to make decisions (I don't tend to use them .. but when I get told my valuations are way off and that I'm not exerienced, I'll use them to show that clearly others think the same as me).

[MyTeam]

You seem to have 1.10, and he has 1.03? Offer up 3 2nds to go from 10 to 3. Surely he has to take it, by his own logic.

For real though, you don’t have to defend your own valuations, it’s what the whole damn game is.

I would not take a pair of 2nds to move down.

Haha, I did something similar. First I said, 1.10, 2 future 2nds and a future 3rd to move to 1.03. Then I said ... 1.10 and a future 1st. He told me I was off because our teams are in different situations.

I showed him various calcs ... he told me I rely on calcs to make decisions (I don't tend to use them .. but when I get told my valuations are way off and that I'm not exerienced, I'll use them to show that clearly others think the same as me).

I am not sure which team build would make 1.09 and 2 future seconds more valuable. But I would stay on anything he offers, send it back to him as 1.10 + whatever for 1.03

[abloom]

not an insulting counter at all. Its your price. he asked for it.

[killer_of_giants]

your assets, your price.

[ajpmn01]

You're under no obligation to explain your valuation. For the record, I believe a lot more people would align with your thinking than his. Team situation is irrelevant

[Gator Sens]

You own the asset of want and the owner needs to make you an offer you cant refuse if they want the pick. I have never understood the "insulting offer" narrative. Say no or decline and move on...

[Prison_Mike]

You seem to have 1.10, and he has 1.03? Offer up 3 2nds to go from 10 to 3. Surely he has to take it, by his own logic.

For real though, you don’t have to defend your own valuations, it’s what the whole damn game is.

I would not take a pair of 2nds to move down.

Haha, I did something similar. First I said, 1.10, 2 future 2nds and a future 3rd to move to 1.03. Then I said ... 1.10 and a future 1st. He told me I was off because our teams are in different situations.

I showed him various calcs ... he told me I rely on calcs to make decisions (I don't tend to use them .. but when I get told my valuations are way off and that I'm not exerienced, I'll use them to show that clearly others think the same as me).

lol these guys always amuse me

"You don't know what you're doing because you use trade calculators"

Trade calcs are an objective assessment of value, nothing more. I think more people SHOULD use them instead of continuously sending bad offers lol. I use one on 75% of the offers I send, just to make sure I'm in the ballpark

As for your specific situation, both of you make solid points. On face value 2 future 2nds (assuming they're early) might be somewhat close to enough to bridge the gap, although probably still light. However as a competitor you're most likely looking for a high-end player who's going to contribute as a starter for your team, not (more) pieces that have less of a chance to hit

But as others said: it's your asset and he came to you. No need to justify your valuation, nor is it unreasonable

[Prison_Mike]

You own the asset of want and the owner needs to make you an offer you cant refuse if they want the pick. I have never understood the "insulting offer" narrative. Say no or decline and move on...

This is a good point too. Telling someone their offer is insulting is not going to motivate them to change their valuation in your favor lol

[Jigga94]

You seem to have 1.10, and he has 1.03? Offer up 3 2nds to go from 10 to 3. Surely he has to take it, by his own logic.

For real though, you don’t have to defend your own valuations, it’s what the whole damn game is.

I would not take a pair of 2nds to move down.

Haha, I did something similar. First I said, 1.10, 2 future 2nds and a future 3rd to move to 1.03. Then I said ... 1.10 and a future 1st. He told me I was off because our teams are in different situations.

I showed him various calcs ... he told me I rely on calcs to make decisions (I don't tend to use them .. but when I get told my valuations are way off and that I'm not exerienced, I'll use them to show that clearly others think the same as me).

Time to walk away then. If he puts a premium on his 2nds and not yours, that doesn't make any sense. I'd hold 1.04 as well until you get a real offer. Trading down to 9 wouldn't be a bad idea to me if he actually gave you a future first or something more than 2nds

[IR1]

I've had plenty of offers that are "fair" on paper but do little to improve my team. I agree with the need for an overpay, not "fair" offer, if you have players targeted with that pick

[tsarpepe]

This is BS, and you should feel fully in your right to walk away. There's no "insulting offer" in this situation. You didn't approach him; he asked you for your price. You gave it to him; it's not an "offer" at all.

[SoftwoodGrampian]

I think most ppl prefer a future 1st to three 2nds so you would need the 1st min

[briank]

If he offered a 2nd and you countered with 2 1sts without any conversation, it would be insulting. If you said from the get go that you didn't want to move down and that's how the conversation went, I don't see a problem with it all.