Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Assuming you could choose one of these three WRs, which do you want? Not necessarily for the 2021 season but for the next 2-5 years.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
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Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
He is obviously a bit of a hot name, but I would rather have Davis. I don't think Allen repeats his stats this year, but I think he can be a top 7 QB and Davis has the skill set to really make some noise in this offense and I think he easily takes the #2 WR spot next year and rolls. Brown is too inconsistent and was very TD dependent last year when his fantasy stats started looking better. Cole is not very exciting.
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Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Of these 3, I would take Davis. Brown has draft capital going for him but not much reason to trust the Ravens passing game. I think Cole is well below both. Davis could be the Bills WR2 as early as next year, he really showed well in 2020 in a great pass-heavy offense.
The Highwaymen
2020, 2021, 2022
2018, 2019
10 Team SF, PPR, Roster: 33+2 IR+2 Taxi
Start: QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, SF, FLX (RB/WR), K, 2 DL, LB, 2 DB, 2 IDP FLX
**IDP scoring is TKL heavy (1.0 solo and asst), no QBH or TFL.**
QB: Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts
RB: Jahmyr Gibbs, D’Andre Swift, Jerome Ford, Khalil Herbert, Jaleel McLaughlin, Ty Chandler, Michael Carter, Isaiah Spiller, Chase Brown, Evan Hull (IR), Sean Tucker
WR: Amon-Ra St. Brown, DeVonta Smith, Tee Higgins, Jordan Addison, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Josh Palmer, Demario Douglas, Alec Pierce, Michael Wilson, Jalin Hyatt, Kayshon Boutte (Taxi)
TE: Sam LaPorta, Trey McBride
K: Jake Elliott
DL: Danielle Hunter, Aiden Hutchinson, Jaelan Phillips (IR)
LB: Bobby Wagner, Jordyn Brooks, Logan Wilson, Ernest Jones
DB: Derwin James, Brian Branch
2020, 2021, 2022
2018, 2019
10 Team SF, PPR, Roster: 33+2 IR+2 Taxi
Start: QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, SF, FLX (RB/WR), K, 2 DL, LB, 2 DB, 2 IDP FLX
**IDP scoring is TKL heavy (1.0 solo and asst), no QBH or TFL.**
QB: Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts
RB: Jahmyr Gibbs, D’Andre Swift, Jerome Ford, Khalil Herbert, Jaleel McLaughlin, Ty Chandler, Michael Carter, Isaiah Spiller, Chase Brown, Evan Hull (IR), Sean Tucker
WR: Amon-Ra St. Brown, DeVonta Smith, Tee Higgins, Jordan Addison, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Josh Palmer, Demario Douglas, Alec Pierce, Michael Wilson, Jalin Hyatt, Kayshon Boutte (Taxi)
TE: Sam LaPorta, Trey McBride
K: Jake Elliott
DL: Danielle Hunter, Aiden Hutchinson, Jaelan Phillips (IR)
LB: Bobby Wagner, Jordyn Brooks, Logan Wilson, Ernest Jones
DB: Derwin James, Brian Branch
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Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Davis for me too. I've admittedly never been a big fan of Hollywood. Hard not to be impressed with what Davis did this year as a rookie. He's in an ascending offense and I think he's just a much more well-rounded WR
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Davis for me too! Best situation imo with Allen and that passing attack.
12 team league - 1.0 PPR - 6pt TD's
Start 1Qb, 2Rb, 2Wr, 1Te, 2Flex, 1SF
Prescott, Brissett, Watson, Geno Smith, Corral
Mixon, Damien Harris, Carter, Jamaal Williams, Hines, Sermon, Ingram
Chase, Hill, DJ Moore, D. Smith, Marvin Jones, Shenault, R. Moore
Hockenson, Higbee, Smith, Otton
2023(1,1,1,1,1,3,4,4)
2024(1,2,3,4)
Start 1Qb, 2Rb, 2Wr, 1Te, 2Flex, 1SF
Prescott, Brissett, Watson, Geno Smith, Corral
Mixon, Damien Harris, Carter, Jamaal Williams, Hines, Sermon, Ingram
Chase, Hill, DJ Moore, D. Smith, Marvin Jones, Shenault, R. Moore
Hockenson, Higbee, Smith, Otton
2023(1,1,1,1,1,3,4,4)
2024(1,2,3,4)
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
I think Allen is the only one I want on my roster unless it is best ball. Hollywood is very frustrating to own and Cole does nothing for me
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
It's funny but I never considered keeping Davis until recently. Initially I thought I'd keep Hollywood, but by the time the season ended I realized I had enough WR depth and don't need the aggravation of his inconsistency. I thought about keeping Cole, but --meh-- why really. Maybe Lawrence enhances Cole's value, but I figure Jax will find a way to acquire a better WR and move Cole to 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. And there was Davis sitting there at the end of my bench just staring at me.
Now with the Gabriel hype train rolling along, I'm thinking I might as well keep him, pick up Chase (if I can), and have a rock solid WR corp with veterans, prime age stars, pre-prime stars, and rookies.
Guess I'll keep him.
Now with the Gabriel hype train rolling along, I'm thinking I might as well keep him, pick up Chase (if I can), and have a rock solid WR corp with veterans, prime age stars, pre-prime stars, and rookies.
Guess I'll keep him.
Last edited by Anteaters on Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
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Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
I think Davis is well worth a keep based on what he did with very limited usage. Are you looking to trade Brown or do you have to cut two of these guys?Anteaters wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:37 pm It's funny but I never considered keeping Davis until recently. Initially I thought I'd keep Hollywood, but by the time the season ended I realized I had enough WR depth and don't need the aggravation. I thought about keeping Cole, but --meh-- why really. And there was Davis sitting there at the end of my bench just staring at me.
Now with the Gabriel hype train rolling along, I'm thinking I might as well keep him, pick up Chase (if I can), and have a rock solid WR corp with veterans, prime age stars, pre-prime stars, and rookies.
Guess I'll keep him.
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
We have a WR cap of 7. I have Ridley, ARobinson, Thielen, Lamb as keepers. I will be in position to get either Chase or Smith in the draft - maybe both if one slides far enough. I was thinking of keeping only 4 WR, drafting Chase-or-Smith and a veteran, and leaving the 7th spot open just in case something unexpected popped up in the combined rookie+veteran draft. Like for instance, if I end up drafting both Chase and Smith, and then some decent veteran is available later.Gator Sens wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:40 pm I think Davis is well worth a keep based on what he did with very limited usage. Are you looking to trade Brown or do you have to cut two of these guys?
But now I'm more hoping to get Chase-or-Smith, Lawrence, and the best RB available with my first 3 draft picks. I'm not sure I need to try to get both Chase and Smith. And with Gabriel looking like a suitable bye-week/injury replacement for me, I don't need to search for some leftover veteran WR3 with lukewarm upside in the draft.
My picks should be overall 3, 4, 8, 12. There's a chance the last two could move back a spot or two, but I think the 3rdOverall and 4thOverall are locked in. And based on past drafting (and rosters of the teams in question), I'm almost certain the first two picks will be RBs.
EDIT: I forgot to answer the "trade" part of your question.
There's not much appetite for Brown or Gabriel as trade options now, much less Cole. I don't think Gabriel has enough track record to command anything valuable to my team. And Brown has enough track record to devalue himself.
Last edited by Anteaters on Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
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Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
If you think you may land both top WR rookies, I would start shopping Brown now and see what the value is for him in your league. Cole has zero value I'm guessing, but Brown could land something in the 2nd round range.Anteaters wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:52 pmWe have a WR cap of 7. I have Ridley, ARobinson, Thielen, Lamb as keepers. I will be in position to get either Chase or Smith in the draft - maybe both if one slides far enough. I was thinking of keeping only 4 WR, drafting Chase-or-Smith and a veteran, and leaving the 7th spot open just in case something unexpected popped up in the combined rookie+veteran draft. Like for instance, if I end up drafting both Chase and Smith, and then some decent veteran is available later.Gator Sens wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:40 pm I think Davis is well worth a keep based on what he did with very limited usage. Are you looking to trade Brown or do you have to cut two of these guys?
But now I'm more hoping to get Chase-or-Smith, Lawrence, and the best RB available with my first 3 draft picks. I'm not sure I need to try to get both Chase and Smith. And with Gabriel looking like a suitable bye-week/injury replacement for me, I don't need to search for some leftover veteran WR3 with lukewarm upside in the draft.
My picks should be overall 3, 4, 8, 12. There's a chance the last two could move back a spot or two, but I think the 3rdOverall and 4thOverall are locked in. And based on past drafting (and rosters of the teams in question), I'm almost certain the first two picks will be RBs.
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
It's possible I view Brown's value wrong because I have so much depth he's been useless to me. Whenever I have to start him, he gets me 3 or 4 points when he's subbing for a guy who normally gets 14-22. But other teams would be starting him all year and get to enjoy the three or four games a year when he actually plays like a WR2Gator Sens wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:57 pm If you think you may land both top WR rookies, I would start shopping Brown now and see what the value is for him in your league. Cole has zero value I'm guessing, but Brown could land something in the 2nd round range.
There are teams in our league where Brown might be the 3rd WR or even 2nd. Even if I get a 4th or 5th round pick, in our league that might translate to 20th or 25th overall. That'd be useful to pick up some IDP help.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
I voted Davis because I'd rather take a gamble on him, but could see the answer being either he or Brown. Brown has the capital that will allow him to hang around in the league for quite some time.
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Cole is already 3rd on the depth chart, no? Behind Chark and Shenault.Anteaters wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:37 pm It's funny but I never considered keeping Davis until recently. Initially I thought I'd keep Hollywood, but by the time the season ended I realized I had enough WR depth and don't need the aggravation of his inconsistency. I thought about keeping Cole, but --meh-- why really. Maybe Lawrence enhance Cole's value, but I figure Jax will find a way to acquire a better WR and move Cole to 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. And there was Davis sitting there at the end of my bench just staring at me.
12-team SF, PPR, TE premium, 0.25 PPCarry
1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1SF 4Flex
QB: Mahomes, Fields, Love
RB: Bijan, ETN, Pollard, Achane, Herbert
WR: Kupp, Hill, Metcalf, Ridley, Jeudy, D.J. M, Burks, Hollywood, Wan'Dale
TE: Kyle Pitts, Goedert
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
Cole is a FA. Colin Johnson is probably 3rd on the depth chart at the moment, though I could easily see the Jags drafting another WR early or signing a FA to give Lawrence more weapons.
16 team-Dynasty-PPR IDP - 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE) 10 IDP
QB - J. Herbert, A. O’Connell, J. Stidham
RB - Bij. Robinson, K. Herbert, J. McLaughlin, M. Carter,
K. Gainwell, E. Gray, J. Mason, Z. Evans, S. Tucker,
C. Brooks, D. McBride, J. Chestnut
WR - J. Chase, C. Lamb, T. Hill, B. Aiyuk, M. Evans,
C. Kirk, E. Moore, R. Bateman, A.T. Perry, T. Scott,
T. Tucker, J. Smith-Schuster
TE - J. Ferguson, D. Bellinger, J. Ruckert
LB- A. Singleton, R. Spillane, A. Anzalone, D. Campbell, K. Elliss, J. Gibbens, EJ Speed, K. Hudson, I. McDuffie,
A. Davis-Gaither
DB - A. Gilman, D. King
K - D. Carlson
(2010 - ) League Champion 2011, 2012, 2013, 2019, 2020, 2021
QB - J. Herbert, A. O’Connell, J. Stidham
RB - Bij. Robinson, K. Herbert, J. McLaughlin, M. Carter,
K. Gainwell, E. Gray, J. Mason, Z. Evans, S. Tucker,
C. Brooks, D. McBride, J. Chestnut
WR - J. Chase, C. Lamb, T. Hill, B. Aiyuk, M. Evans,
C. Kirk, E. Moore, R. Bateman, A.T. Perry, T. Scott,
T. Tucker, J. Smith-Schuster
TE - J. Ferguson, D. Bellinger, J. Ruckert
LB- A. Singleton, R. Spillane, A. Anzalone, D. Campbell, K. Elliss, J. Gibbens, EJ Speed, K. Hudson, I. McDuffie,
A. Davis-Gaither
DB - A. Gilman, D. King
K - D. Carlson
(2010 - ) League Champion 2011, 2012, 2013, 2019, 2020, 2021
Re: Predict WR Success: Hollywood, KCole, GabrielDavis
True. I forgot about that because Chark was injured and Cole was virtually tied with Shenault in fantasy points in my league.
Yeah, JAX will almost certainly pick up another WR either in the draft or free agency, or both.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
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