Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

This is the place for team advice - should I make this trade, should I draft that player, etc.

Hopkins or DJ Moore+

Hopkins
4
9%
DJ Moore and 1.03
41
91%
 
Total votes: 45

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Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby Dynasty19 » Sun May 31, 2020 7:33 am

12 team, 1QB, 0.5 PPR

What side would you rather? Middle of the pack in the league so could/could not make playoffs.

I’m hearing lots of people saying DJ Moore is overvalued currently even though he did well with inconsistent QB last year. Teddy should be better right?

Hopkins

Or

DJ Moore and 1.03
10 Team - Full PPR
QB - Wentz, Mayfield, Carr
RB - Chubb, Bell, Conner, Lindsay, McKinnon
WR - Adams, OBJ, AJ Brown, McLaurin, Cooks, Crowder, Watkins
TE - Engram, Goedert, Howard, Knox

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun May 31, 2020 7:37 am

DJM> Hopkins

1.03>Nothing

DJM is the better dynasty player. He's 5 years younger, hasn't hit his prime yet, and will have a long time to return his value in a trade. He posted almost 90 catches in basically 14 games as a 22 year old, was first round prospect, with an elite metrics profile. He's being valued accordingly, and actually, if he's not in the top 5 Dynasty WR's, I think he's undervalued.

This offer is heavily in favour of the Moore side. I would gladly trade Hopkins for Moore straight up, and would not trade Moore for Hopkins straight up, in Dynasty. PPG were similar last year, and Hopkins is going to a new team, and will likely not get the same target share. He showed regression from hims prime form, too. Was extremely inefficient with his targets. YPR were very low, as was his Yards per target, and ADOT, which all pointed towards him not being able to win down the field as much. He just didn't look as good, either.
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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby Gator Sens » Sun May 31, 2020 7:48 am

Moore very easily if this is on the table.

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby never_punts » Sun May 31, 2020 7:52 am

Ooof, I am the leader of the Nuk fan club but it'd be hard to turn down DJM/Dobbins
Team #1: 12-Team - PPR - *SF* - 4pt Pass - IDP
25 Roster + 5 Taxi | QB, RB, 2-WR, TE, SFLX, 3-FLX | DL, LB, DB
The Moore the Murray-er (2022 Champ 8-) )
QB: Burrow - Lamar - Kyler
RB: Ekeler - Saquon - Gainwell
WR: Amon Ra - Hopkins - Godwin - K.Allen- QJ - Hollywood - Diontae - Shaheed- Wandale - Woods
TE: Kelce - Engram - Ferg - Chig
DL: Hunter | LB: Okereke | DB: Bynum
'24 Picks: Late 1st, Early 2nd, Late 2nd

Team #2: 12-Team - PPR - *SF* - 6pt Pass - TE Prem
25 Roster + 5 Taxi | QB, RB, 2-WR, TE, SFLX, 3-FLX
Team #2 (0-0)
QB: Murray - Allen - Winston
RB: Cook - Saquon - Mattison - Hull
WR: Diontae - Tyreek - Lockett - Higgins - Chark - TMJ - Kirk - Dell
TE: Ertz - Engram - Mayer
'24 Picks: My 1st, 2nd, and 3rd

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby DLF3000 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am

DJM is definitely overvalued right now.

I don't do this if I'm contending, but if you're truly a .500 or or worse team, I can at least understand it.
35 Team Dyn PPR, 3 x Copy SF start 2TE Super Prem (TE 2 PPR, 8pt TD), 6 pt/non-TE TD, 1pt/20 yds pass (300 +3pt), 1pt/10 yds rush/rec (100 +3pt)

Start 12: 1QB 1SFLX 2RB 4WR 2TE 2FLX | 30 Active Roster, unlim Taxi, 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '21 | playoffs '21, '22

QB - J Allen, T Lawrence ...
RB - A Ekeler, S Barkley, J Cook, I Pacheco ...
WR - AJ Brown, C Ridley, G Pickens, C Sutton ...
TE - D Njoku, D Knox ...
® 2024 - | 2025 -

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun May 31, 2020 11:05 am

DLF3000 wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am DJM is definitely overvalued right now.

I don't do this if I'm contending, but if you're truly a .500 or or worse team, I can at least understand it.
Can you give any reason for this? Production, profile and age suggest otherwise. I'd like to see an argument on it. I'd argue Hopkins at DLF
ranking on 4 is more overvalued than DJM at 6. Age for future trade value, change of team, production apex and of course how many actual matchups the difference between the 2 will make in a dynasty context will change......even in a redraft context the DJM vs Hopkins is real, Dynasty it's not even a real argument to me based on a lot of data one can look up.
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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby abloom » Sun May 31, 2020 11:10 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 7:37 am DJM> Hopkins

1.03>Nothing

DJM is the better dynasty player. He's 5 years younger, hasn't hit his prime yet, and will have a long time to return his value in a trade. He posted almost 90 catches in basically 14 games as a 22 year old, was first round prospect, with an elite metrics profile. He's being valued accordingly, and actually, if he's not in the top 5 Dynasty WR's, I think he's undervalued.

This offer is heavily in favour of the Moore side. I would gladly trade Hopkins for Moore straight up, and would not trade Moore for Hopkins straight up, in Dynasty. PPG were similar last year, and Hopkins is going to a new team, and will likely not get the same target share. He showed regression from hims prime form, too. Was extremely inefficient with his targets. YPR were very low, as was his Yards per target, and ADOT, which all pointed towards him not being able to win down the field as much. He just didn't look as good, either.
I have Nuk > DJM, but not by the 1.03.

Definitely the DJM side
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K

Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0004&O=01

Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0009&O=01

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby DLF3000 » Sun May 31, 2020 12:13 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 11:05 am
DLF3000 wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am DJM is definitely overvalued right now.

I don't do this if I'm contending, but if you're truly a .500 or or worse team, I can at least understand it.
Can you give any reason for this? Production, profile and age suggest otherwise. I'd like to see an argument on it. I'd argue Hopkins at DLF
ranking on 4 is more overvalued than DJM at 6. Age for future trade value, change of team, production apex and of course how many actual matchups the difference between the 2 will make in a dynasty context will change......even in a redraft context the DJM vs Hopkins is real, Dynasty it's not even a real argument to me based on a lot of data one can look up.
All reasonable - like I said, I can understand the DJM side, you're betting big on potential.

My argument against the DJM side is both production and situation.

You mentioned production, so maybe we fundamentally disagree here. To me, Hopkins' vast amount of production over many years and various QBs vastly outweighs anything DJM has done so far - they're not even remotely close on this point.

And situation-wise, I'm not sold on that team or offense this year either. Bridgewater is a big unknown as the Panthers QB, so I'm not on board yet with all these takes where that offense is going to be among the best. This is simply the gut-feeling half of my argument against.
35 Team Dyn PPR, 3 x Copy SF start 2TE Super Prem (TE 2 PPR, 8pt TD), 6 pt/non-TE TD, 1pt/20 yds pass (300 +3pt), 1pt/10 yds rush/rec (100 +3pt)

Start 12: 1QB 1SFLX 2RB 4WR 2TE 2FLX | 30 Active Roster, unlim Taxi, 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '21 | playoffs '21, '22

QB - J Allen, T Lawrence ...
RB - A Ekeler, S Barkley, J Cook, I Pacheco ...
WR - AJ Brown, C Ridley, G Pickens, C Sutton ...
TE - D Njoku, D Knox ...
® 2024 - | 2025 -

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun May 31, 2020 12:56 pm

DLF3000 wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 12:13 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 11:05 am
DLF3000 wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 8:46 am DJM is definitely overvalued right now.

I don't do this if I'm contending, but if you're truly a .500 or or worse team, I can at least understand it.
Can you give any reason for this? Production, profile and age suggest otherwise. I'd like to see an argument on it. I'd argue Hopkins at DLF
ranking on 4 is more overvalued than DJM at 6. Age for future trade value, change of team, production apex and of course how many actual matchups the difference between the 2 will make in a dynasty context will change......even in a redraft context the DJM vs Hopkins is real, Dynasty it's not even a real argument to me based on a lot of data one can look up.
All reasonable - like I said, I can understand the DJM side, you're betting big on potential.

My argument against the DJM side is both production and situation.

You mentioned production, so maybe we fundamentally disagree here. To me, Hopkins' vast amount of production over many years and various QBs vastly outweighs anything DJM has done so far - they're not even remotely close on this point.

And situation-wise, I'm not sold on that team or offense this year either. Bridgewater is a big unknown as the Panthers QB, so I'm not on board yet with all these takes where that offense is going to be among the best. This is simply the gut-feeling half of my argument against.
Sure, but they have never really had major competition, and to be fair, he was very good. However, if you take his production combined with his age apex, and his last season's production, combined with the fact that not only was he very inneficient, but he's changing teams and going to a QB who is not currently as good, even this year there is a great debate to be had over Hopkins vs Moore in redraft. In Dynsasty, as I said, the amount of games DJM vs Hopkins will change the difference on in this upcoming season is minimal, but over 5 years, and re-sale value in 2-3 years, no contest IMO. Thanks for responding, though, appreciate it.
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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby MFundercover » Sun May 31, 2020 1:17 pm

DJ Moore isn't more valuable than a guy who is locked in to top 6 finishes for the next 4 seasons, with faded production after.

But you're definitely accepting this offer, especially if you arent contending right now.

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun May 31, 2020 1:27 pm

MFundercover wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:17 pm DJ Moore isn't more valuable than a guy who is locked in to top 6 finishes for the next 4 seasons, with faded production after.

But you're definitely accepting this offer, especially if you arent contending right now.
Love your hot takes man, but that's just not right. As a matter of fact, I will put money against it. Then again, I see you have Hopkins in your sig as WR1. :lol: :wink: ? Willing to put that statement on your wallet, spice it up a bit? :think:
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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby StripesOfKC » Sun May 31, 2020 1:34 pm

MFundercover wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:17 pm DJ Moore isn't more valuable than a guy who is locked in to top 6 finishes for the next 4 seasons, with faded production after.

But you're definitely accepting this offer, especially if you arent contending right now.
Serious question: How many elite WRs can you think of have had their production and fantasy stock helped by a move to a new team?
Now what about when that new team has a (at the moment) worse QB? and a worse offensive line?

Unless you think Hopkins is Randy Moss and Kyler is Tom Brady, he is a prime sell candidate to me at the moment

Though purely based on name value, I still say Hopkins is slightly more valuable than Moore (not to me but in general). Either way though that margin is not the 1.03

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun May 31, 2020 1:42 pm

StripesOfKC wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:34 pm
MFundercover wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:17 pm DJ Moore isn't more valuable than a guy who is locked in to top 6 finishes for the next 4 seasons, with faded production after.

But you're definitely accepting this offer, especially if you arent contending right now.
Serious question: How many elite WRs can you think of have had their production and fantasy stock helped by a move to a new team?
Now what about when that new team has a (at the moment) worse QB? and a worse offensive line?

Unless you think Hopkins is Randy Moss and Kyler is Tom Brady, he is a prime sell candidate to me at the moment

Though purely based on name value, I still say Hopkins is slightly more valuable than Moore (not to me but in general). Either way though that margin is not the 1.03
You forgot outside their age/production apex, BTW. I think he was being hyperbolic, as I was having some fun with him in my prior post, about that. ( Which I'd expect good odds on, BTW, since I am betting against a "lock"). :biggrin:
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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby MFundercover » Sun May 31, 2020 4:07 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:27 pm
MFundercover wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:17 pm DJ Moore isn't more valuable than a guy who is locked in to top 6 finishes for the next 4 seasons, with faded production after.

But you're definitely accepting this offer, especially if you arent contending right now.
Love your hot takes man, but that's just not right. As a matter of fact, I will put money against it. Then again, I see you have Hopkins in your sig as WR1. :lol: :wink: ? Willing to put that statement on your wallet, spice it up a bit? :think:
Hot takes like what? Miles Sanders is going to get high volume? I gave you paragraphs of insight that you barely glossed over with "well I think X is better so there". Literally 99% of ECR has Hopkins > Moore, so you are the one with the hot takes.

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Last edited by MFundercover on Sun May 31, 2020 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hopkins vs DJ Moore+

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun May 31, 2020 4:15 pm

MFundercover wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 4:07 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:27 pm
MFundercover wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 1:17 pm DJ Moore isn't more valuable than a guy who is locked in to top 6 finishes for the next 4 seasons, with faded production after.

But you're definitely accepting this offer, especially if you arent contending right now.
Love your hot takes man, but that's just not right. As a matter of fact, I will put money against it. Then again, I see you have Hopkins in your sig as WR1. :lol: :wink: ? Willing to put that statement on your wallet, spice it up a bit? :think:
Hot takes like what? Miles Sanders is going to get high volume?
Wow, it was a joke. I thought we had hashed it out, but clearly you're unstable. BTW, take a look at the bold. That's what I was referencing. You really need to chill out.
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