My team is pretty loaded but ultimately lost because of inconsistent QB play. If Aaron Rodgers threw for 11 more yards I would have won the championship!! Everyone in my league way overvalues the position and no one will trade the top guys for anything resembling reasonable so far, though we'll see if rookie fever moves someone on draft day.
I have 1.03, 1.09, 1.11, 2.04, 2.09, 2.11. Am I nuts for wanting to draft Burrow at 1.11 and then Tua at 2.04? I feel like both of them have top 3 upside and my QBs are not as reliable as they used to be. It either that or draft more WR/RB depth. And also having 5 QBs on my roster sounds like a pain, though I can probably trade a couple if needed.
Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
Team 1
12 Team 1 PPR 1QB/2 RB/2 WR/2 FLEX/1TE
QB: Herbert, Burrow
RB: Zeke, Fournette, Dobbins, Cook, Gaskins, Gainwell, Herbert, Ingram, Pacheco, T.Jones, Phillips
WR: Chase, Lamb, Hopkins, Evans, Jeudy, Toney, DBell, Woods, WRobinson, Reagor, Mims, Campbell
TE: Kelce, Jarwin, Trautman, Shultz, Gray, Granson
2023: 1, 2, 3, 4
Team 2
12 Team PPR SF TE Premium QB/ 2RB/ 2WR/ TE/ SuperFlex / 2 Flex
QB: Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Ridder
RB: Barkley, Jacobs, Fournette, Dobbins, Aaron Jones, Dillon, RoJo, McKissic, Gus Edwards, Gainwell, Wilson, Eno, Breida, Badie, ASmith
WR: Jefferson, Lamb, Sutton, Hollywood Brown, CWatson, Pierce, Toney, J.Myers
TE: L.Thomas, Henry, J.Woods, RSJ, OJ Howard, Tremble
2023: 2, 3, 4, 5
12 Team 1 PPR 1QB/2 RB/2 WR/2 FLEX/1TE
QB: Herbert, Burrow
RB: Zeke, Fournette, Dobbins, Cook, Gaskins, Gainwell, Herbert, Ingram, Pacheco, T.Jones, Phillips
WR: Chase, Lamb, Hopkins, Evans, Jeudy, Toney, DBell, Woods, WRobinson, Reagor, Mims, Campbell
TE: Kelce, Jarwin, Trautman, Shultz, Gray, Granson
2023: 1, 2, 3, 4
Team 2
12 Team PPR SF TE Premium QB/ 2RB/ 2WR/ TE/ SuperFlex / 2 Flex
QB: Allen, Herbert, Jackson, Ridder
RB: Barkley, Jacobs, Fournette, Dobbins, Aaron Jones, Dillon, RoJo, McKissic, Gus Edwards, Gainwell, Wilson, Eno, Breida, Badie, ASmith
WR: Jefferson, Lamb, Sutton, Hollywood Brown, CWatson, Pierce, Toney, J.Myers
TE: L.Thomas, Henry, J.Woods, RSJ, OJ Howard, Tremble
2023: 2, 3, 4, 5
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
So I’ve never played a 1QB dynasty but I don’t think you’ll get Burrow and Tua at those pick, will you? Regardless I would still go BPA and try to draft Albert O in the 2nd as you don’t really need a QB
Jake Fromm State Farm (12 team PPR SF)
QB: Purdy, ARich (TS), Levis (TS), Bagent, Hall, Rudolph, Fromm
RB: Roschon (TS), Allgeier, Hill, Demercado, McLaughlin, Mitchell, K. Harris, E. Wilson
WR: Addison, London, Jmo, Shaheed, Reed (TS), Pop D, Iosivas, C. Jones, Mooney, T. Palmer, Scott, Tucker, Austin, Gipson, Melton,
TE: Musgrave, Mayer (TS), Trautman, Gray, Jordan
2024: 1.01, 1.07, 2.04, 2.10, 2.11, 3.01, 3.06, 3.07, 3.11
2025: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4
QB: Purdy, ARich (TS), Levis (TS), Bagent, Hall, Rudolph, Fromm
RB: Roschon (TS), Allgeier, Hill, Demercado, McLaughlin, Mitchell, K. Harris, E. Wilson
WR: Addison, London, Jmo, Shaheed, Reed (TS), Pop D, Iosivas, C. Jones, Mooney, T. Palmer, Scott, Tucker, Austin, Gipson, Melton,
TE: Musgrave, Mayer (TS), Trautman, Gray, Jordan
2024: 1.01, 1.07, 2.04, 2.10, 2.11, 3.01, 3.06, 3.07, 3.11
2025: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4
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Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
No one should have to talk you out of this, it’s a bad idea. You are fine with Rodgers and Goff.
You need more depth, take BPA with those picks.
You need more depth, take BPA with those picks.
Team One:
10 Team Salary Cap League w/ IDP - Est. 2018
2018: Champions!
2019: Champions!!
2020: 2nd Place
2021: Loss in Semis
2022: Champions!!!
.5 PPR/$200 budget
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 WR/TE, 1 K, 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 3 DL/LB/DB
QB - Mahomes
RB - CMC, White, Sanders, Herbert, Foreman, McKinnon
WR - Diggs, Ridley, Godwin, KJ Osborn, Woods, Claypool, Campbell
TE - Kittle, Goedert, Gesicki
K - Bass
DL - Reddick, Jones, M. Sweat
LB - R. Smith, Wagner, Leonard, White, Perryman, Cashman
DB - Byard, Bell, Hobbs, Jenkins
2024: 3rd
Team Two:
DLF Advice Forum League
14 Team PPR SF/TE Premium (2PPR)
2020: 4th Place
2021: 2nd Place
1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1SF, 2Flex
QB - Allen, Carr, Mayfield, Trask, Zappe
RB - Harris, Gibson, Herbert, K. Miller, C. Brown
WR - MT, G. Davis, Bourne, Skyy Moore, Reynolds, Shakir, A.T. Perry, C. Moore, Hinton
TE - Kittle, Andrews, Woods
2024: 1, 2, 3, 4
10 Team Salary Cap League w/ IDP - Est. 2018
2018: Champions!
2019: Champions!!
2020: 2nd Place
2021: Loss in Semis
2022: Champions!!!
.5 PPR/$200 budget
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 WR/TE, 1 K, 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 3 DL/LB/DB
QB - Mahomes
RB - CMC, White, Sanders, Herbert, Foreman, McKinnon
WR - Diggs, Ridley, Godwin, KJ Osborn, Woods, Claypool, Campbell
TE - Kittle, Goedert, Gesicki
K - Bass
DL - Reddick, Jones, M. Sweat
LB - R. Smith, Wagner, Leonard, White, Perryman, Cashman
DB - Byard, Bell, Hobbs, Jenkins
2024: 3rd
Team Two:
DLF Advice Forum League
14 Team PPR SF/TE Premium (2PPR)
2020: 4th Place
2021: 2nd Place
1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1SF, 2Flex
QB - Allen, Carr, Mayfield, Trask, Zappe
RB - Harris, Gibson, Herbert, K. Miller, C. Brown
WR - MT, G. Davis, Bourne, Skyy Moore, Reynolds, Shakir, A.T. Perry, C. Moore, Hinton
TE - Kittle, Andrews, Woods
2024: 1, 2, 3, 4
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
In a 1QB league? Definitely a strong possibility. QBs rarely go in the 1st, usually high - low 2nd round in my league.
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
Interesting, well I still agree with foosball. I’ll say it a little nicer though. You have a good team. I would just take the best player available at the picks. But I would try to get 1 tight end. Albert O is my #1 and Adam Trautman is my #2
Jake Fromm State Farm (12 team PPR SF)
QB: Purdy, ARich (TS), Levis (TS), Bagent, Hall, Rudolph, Fromm
RB: Roschon (TS), Allgeier, Hill, Demercado, McLaughlin, Mitchell, K. Harris, E. Wilson
WR: Addison, London, Jmo, Shaheed, Reed (TS), Pop D, Iosivas, C. Jones, Mooney, T. Palmer, Scott, Tucker, Austin, Gipson, Melton,
TE: Musgrave, Mayer (TS), Trautman, Gray, Jordan
2024: 1.01, 1.07, 2.04, 2.10, 2.11, 3.01, 3.06, 3.07, 3.11
2025: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4
QB: Purdy, ARich (TS), Levis (TS), Bagent, Hall, Rudolph, Fromm
RB: Roschon (TS), Allgeier, Hill, Demercado, McLaughlin, Mitchell, K. Harris, E. Wilson
WR: Addison, London, Jmo, Shaheed, Reed (TS), Pop D, Iosivas, C. Jones, Mooney, T. Palmer, Scott, Tucker, Austin, Gipson, Melton,
TE: Musgrave, Mayer (TS), Trautman, Gray, Jordan
2024: 1.01, 1.07, 2.04, 2.10, 2.11, 3.01, 3.06, 3.07, 3.11
2025: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
I’d trade a pick for an established TE before trusting a rookie for production.
Wasteland
12-team, PPR 25 roster 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 1(RB/WR/TE), 1 D/ST
QB J. Burrow, A. Richardson
RB J. Taylor, D. Henry, M. Sanders, B. Hall, T. Sermon, C. Patterson, P. Strong, K. Ingram, TDP, D. Achane, K. Miller, R. Johnson
WR AJ Brown, C. Ridley, J. Chase, C. Lamb, JSN, G. Pickens, K. Osborn, J. Meyers, A. Pierce, T. Scott
TE T. Kelce, D. Goedert, G. Dulcich, J. Woods
D/ST MIN, PIT, DEN
Panthers
12-team SF, .5 PPR 35 roster: 1QB, 1SF, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2FLEX, 2DB, 2LB, 2DL, 1FLEX
QB J. Burrow, A. Richardson, J. Winston, S. Howell
RB J. Mixon, E. Elliott, N. Chubb, J. Kelley, K. Harris, J. Ford
WR D. Hopkins, C. Godwin, T. Higgins, C. Ridley, J. Smith-Njigba, J. Mingo
TE T. Kelce, K. Pitts, Z. Ertz, D. Goedert, J. Ferguson
DB R. Grant, J. Simmons
DL D. Hunter, A. Highsmith, S. Hubbard
LB C. Mosley, A. Singleton, P. Queen, D. Deablo
12-team, PPR 25 roster 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 1(RB/WR/TE), 1 D/ST
QB J. Burrow, A. Richardson
RB J. Taylor, D. Henry, M. Sanders, B. Hall, T. Sermon, C. Patterson, P. Strong, K. Ingram, TDP, D. Achane, K. Miller, R. Johnson
WR AJ Brown, C. Ridley, J. Chase, C. Lamb, JSN, G. Pickens, K. Osborn, J. Meyers, A. Pierce, T. Scott
TE T. Kelce, D. Goedert, G. Dulcich, J. Woods
D/ST MIN, PIT, DEN
Panthers
12-team SF, .5 PPR 35 roster: 1QB, 1SF, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2FLEX, 2DB, 2LB, 2DL, 1FLEX
QB J. Burrow, A. Richardson, J. Winston, S. Howell
RB J. Mixon, E. Elliott, N. Chubb, J. Kelley, K. Harris, J. Ford
WR D. Hopkins, C. Godwin, T. Higgins, C. Ridley, J. Smith-Njigba, J. Mingo
TE T. Kelce, K. Pitts, Z. Ertz, D. Goedert, J. Ferguson
DB R. Grant, J. Simmons
DL D. Hunter, A. Highsmith, S. Hubbard
LB C. Mosley, A. Singleton, P. Queen, D. Deablo
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
Take one of them with one the 2.04. If both are available there, try to trade down a pick a pick or two and pick up a future pick.
.5PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
LJax, Burrow, Carr, Huntley, Heinicke, Cunningham
Adams, Kupp, Deebo, M Brown, Kirk, Wiliams, C Samuel, Palmer, E. Moore, Hodgins, Hutchinson
CMC, Barkley, Mostert, Ford, Moss, Dobbins, Dillon, Kelley, Tucker
Andrews, Higbee
PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
Mahomes, Purdy, Dalton, Henicke, Trask, Zappe
Henry, Pacheco, Robinson, Wilson, Ford, Chandler, Deuce
Hill, Kupp, Shaheed, Toney, Lazard, Metchie, Mingo, Slayton, Shenault, Atwell, Hutchinson
Pitts, Waller, Washington
PPR Best Ball Dynasty SF .5TEP
Stroud, Cousins, Willis, Mariota, Cunningham
Walker, J Cook, Miller, Zamir, Rodriguez, Carter, Penny
St. Brown, Aiyuk, DJ Moore, London, Doubs, Metchie, Scott, Claypool
Kincaid, Dulcich, Fant, Turner, Hurst
LJax, Burrow, Carr, Huntley, Heinicke, Cunningham
Adams, Kupp, Deebo, M Brown, Kirk, Wiliams, C Samuel, Palmer, E. Moore, Hodgins, Hutchinson
CMC, Barkley, Mostert, Ford, Moss, Dobbins, Dillon, Kelley, Tucker
Andrews, Higbee
PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
Mahomes, Purdy, Dalton, Henicke, Trask, Zappe
Henry, Pacheco, Robinson, Wilson, Ford, Chandler, Deuce
Hill, Kupp, Shaheed, Toney, Lazard, Metchie, Mingo, Slayton, Shenault, Atwell, Hutchinson
Pitts, Waller, Washington
PPR Best Ball Dynasty SF .5TEP
Stroud, Cousins, Willis, Mariota, Cunningham
Walker, J Cook, Miller, Zamir, Rodriguez, Carter, Penny
St. Brown, Aiyuk, DJ Moore, London, Doubs, Metchie, Scott, Claypool
Kincaid, Dulcich, Fant, Turner, Hurst
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
I mean if you're sitting at 2.09 and 2.11, no one has fallen and/or the board is drying up then sure I don't see the harm in taking both of them. 100% not before then though, too much talent in this draft.
I think you can pretty much forget about Burrow if you take my advice. Which is fine, one hit wonders make me nervous anyway. I'm more interested to see where Tua falls ADP wise. If you can get him late 2nd to replace Cam that might be a more reasonable goal to settle on.
I think you can pretty much forget about Burrow if you take my advice. Which is fine, one hit wonders make me nervous anyway. I'm more interested to see where Tua falls ADP wise. If you can get him late 2nd to replace Cam that might be a more reasonable goal to settle on.
12 Team SF IDP
QB - Mahomes, Lawrence, Mac
RB - Etienne, Walker, Rhamondre, Javonte, Akers, CEH
WR - AJB, Waddle, Higgins, Gabe, Toney
TE - Andrews, ISJ
DL - Quinnen, Highsmith, Josh Allen
LB - Lloyd, JOK, Gay, Bush
DB - Winfield, Love, Delpit
14 Team 1QB IDP
QB - Fields, Jimmy G
RB - Henry, Kamara, Swift, Herbert
WR - Adams, Juju, Jakobi, Theilen
TE - Hock, Everett
DL - Garrett, Buckner, Sweat
LB - White, David, Okereke, Jack
DB - Budda, CJGJ, Dugger, Byard
QB - Mahomes, Lawrence, Mac
RB - Etienne, Walker, Rhamondre, Javonte, Akers, CEH
WR - AJB, Waddle, Higgins, Gabe, Toney
TE - Andrews, ISJ
DL - Quinnen, Highsmith, Josh Allen
LB - Lloyd, JOK, Gay, Bush
DB - Winfield, Love, Delpit
14 Team 1QB IDP
QB - Fields, Jimmy G
RB - Henry, Kamara, Swift, Herbert
WR - Adams, Juju, Jakobi, Theilen
TE - Hock, Everett
DL - Garrett, Buckner, Sweat
LB - White, David, Okereke, Jack
DB - Budda, CJGJ, Dugger, Byard
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Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
Based on the value of QBs in your league, even in a 1 QB league I think it's fine to take one of the top two with the 2.04. Its high, but sounds like the only reasonable way to land a young QB with potential in your league. I also think you are fine with Goff and Rodgers though.
- Cowboysfan33
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Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
I’ve never taken a QB in the first round and usually wait until mid-late 2nd to do it, “if” no one I like is on the board. All of my leagues except one is 1QB but in your situation, being that your league hoards QBs, I can see taking one at 2.04.
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- Location: PNW
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
I’d consider one, but not both. It’s great to have a solid QB but their value is too low in 1QB, you’d be missing out on better potential value if you draft both.
TEAM 1 - 10 team SF 1PPR | 2017 & 2019 League Champ
1QB/1SF/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX
QB: Dak - Hurts - DangeRuss - Tua - Z Wilson - Mills
RB: Barkley - Zeke - Sanders - Pollard - Patterson - D’Ernest - Jermar - Evans - Jones
WR: Hill - JJeff - Higgins - Hollywood - MThom(IR) - Godwin(IR) - E Moore - Marshall Jr - Calloway - Palmer - D Brown
TE: Hock - Moreau
1QB/1SF/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX
QB: Dak - Hurts - DangeRuss - Tua - Z Wilson - Mills
RB: Barkley - Zeke - Sanders - Pollard - Patterson - D’Ernest - Jermar - Evans - Jones
WR: Hill - JJeff - Higgins - Hollywood - MThom(IR) - Godwin(IR) - E Moore - Marshall Jr - Calloway - Palmer - D Brown
TE: Hock - Moreau
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
I’d much rather spend the 2.11 on Jaylen Hurts and draft the best RBs and WRs available with your earlier picks. Hell, depending on when he’s drafted and where he lands, you might even be about to wait til 3.11 to get him.
Both are 12-team 1QB PPR dynasties
🦬PRIME🦬
QB: Hurts, Howell
RB: Mixon, Jones, Sanders, Dobbins, Akers, Roschon, Dowdle, Kelley
WR: Nuk, Godwin, Cooper, Lockett, Flowers, Chark, Collins, Hollins, Tillman, Tolbert
TE: Hockenson, Chig, Trautman
Taxi: Willis, Z. White, M. Mims, T. Palmer
Hull Awaits
$450 cap, 60 contract years
QB: Lawrence $5/3, Richardson $5/5, Minshew $1/0, Jones $1/0, Heinicke $1/0, Tyrod $1/0
RB: Achane $4/4, Warren $2/4, Roschon $7/5, Dillon $4/1, Hubbard $2/1, Kelley $1/0
WR: Nuk $78/1, MT $25/1, M. Williams $1/0, JSN $21/5, Reed $4/5, Rice $4/5, M. Wilson $2/5
TE: Thomas $1/0, Hill $1/0, Parham $1/0
🦬PRIME🦬
QB: Hurts, Howell
RB: Mixon, Jones, Sanders, Dobbins, Akers, Roschon, Dowdle, Kelley
WR: Nuk, Godwin, Cooper, Lockett, Flowers, Chark, Collins, Hollins, Tillman, Tolbert
TE: Hockenson, Chig, Trautman
Taxi: Willis, Z. White, M. Mims, T. Palmer
Hull Awaits
$450 cap, 60 contract years
QB: Lawrence $5/3, Richardson $5/5, Minshew $1/0, Jones $1/0, Heinicke $1/0, Tyrod $1/0
RB: Achane $4/4, Warren $2/4, Roschon $7/5, Dillon $4/1, Hubbard $2/1, Kelley $1/0
WR: Nuk $78/1, MT $25/1, M. Williams $1/0, JSN $21/5, Reed $4/5, Rice $4/5, M. Wilson $2/5
TE: Thomas $1/0, Hill $1/0, Parham $1/0
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
One or both of them should be there at 2.04. I'd target a qb then. When it gets to 2.09 and if the other one is still there, then I'm okay with nabbing both of them.
But I like your three first round picks solidifying your wrs and rbs.
-oo-
But I like your three first round picks solidifying your wrs and rbs.
-oo-
Both teams 16 tm 1/3 ppr idp
QB, RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, K, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 2 Flex
Phoenix Park Suns
QB - Hurts, Darnold, Minshew, Zappe, O'Connell
RB - Ekeler, Conner, Edwards, Strong, McLaughlin, Brooks, Prince
WR - Adams, Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Zay Jones, M. Thomas, Downs
TE - Goedert, Bellinger
PK - Sanders
DL - Garrett, Paye, Madubuike, Judon
LB - Franklin, Mosley, Edmunds, J. Davis, Bernard, Jack, Mapu, Vander Esch
DB - Metellus, Branch
2024 Picks: 1.14, 2.05 , 2.14, 3.05, 3.14, 6.14
Serenity Valley Browncoats
QB - RWilson, O'Connell, Lance, Darnold, Hooker, Stidham
RB - Stevenson, RWhite, Ford, Herbert, Hunt, CEH, McIntosh, Brooks
WR - Adams, Collins, Rice, GDavis, NBrown, Dortch, Tillman
TE - Higbee, Allen, Graham
PK - Fairbairn
DL - Madubuike, Paye, Ebukam, Will Anderson
LB - Kendricks, Pratt, DWhite, Holcombe, Baker, Alexander, TAndersen, Jack
DB - Blackmon, Brisker, Stingley
- 2024 Picks: 1.13, 3.13
-oo-
QB, RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, K, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 2 Flex
Phoenix Park Suns
QB - Hurts, Darnold, Minshew, Zappe, O'Connell
RB - Ekeler, Conner, Edwards, Strong, McLaughlin, Brooks, Prince
WR - Adams, Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Zay Jones, M. Thomas, Downs
TE - Goedert, Bellinger
PK - Sanders
DL - Garrett, Paye, Madubuike, Judon
LB - Franklin, Mosley, Edmunds, J. Davis, Bernard, Jack, Mapu, Vander Esch
DB - Metellus, Branch
2024 Picks: 1.14, 2.05 , 2.14, 3.05, 3.14, 6.14
Serenity Valley Browncoats
QB - RWilson, O'Connell, Lance, Darnold, Hooker, Stidham
RB - Stevenson, RWhite, Ford, Herbert, Hunt, CEH, McIntosh, Brooks
WR - Adams, Collins, Rice, GDavis, NBrown, Dortch, Tillman
TE - Higbee, Allen, Graham
PK - Fairbairn
DL - Madubuike, Paye, Ebukam, Will Anderson
LB - Kendricks, Pratt, DWhite, Holcombe, Baker, Alexander, TAndersen, Jack
DB - Blackmon, Brisker, Stingley
- 2024 Picks: 1.13, 3.13
-oo-
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
If you are in my league Draft Burrow and Tua with the 1.3 and 1.9. If you aren't in my league draft BPA.
Re: Talk me out of drafting both Burrow and Tua in 1QB
One of my 1QB leagues is very similar in the sense that they over value QBs. You’d think we were in a must start 3QB league with the valuations some of the owners have on QBs. For years they tried price gouging me bc of my weaker QBs. I stayed the course and focused on my RBs/WRs. Kept explaining to these owners I’d rather have a solid WR2 and WR3 that outscores their WR2 and WR3 by a large margin then to give up the world to gain 2-3 points more at QB. Long story short, stay the course and take BPA. The other owners will eventually realize stock piling QBs in a 1QB hurts them more then it helps them.