Juju vs Golladay

[pmart33]

I'd rather have Juju and I'd probably need a late 1st to close the gap. Juju is 3 years younger and more talented in my opinion.

X2, actually kind of surprised the community soured on Juju after one season of abysmal QB play from guys who probably wouldnt even make an XFL roster.

Ridiculous excuse considering the comparison. Golladay had Jeff Driskel and David Blough at QB most of the year and still finished a top 10 WR. Courtland Sutton had a horrid QB situation and was a WR2. DJ Moore had Kyle Allen and Will Grier. Still a low end WR1

Juju couldn’t even beat the likes of Taylor Gabriel and Chris Conley on a per game basis (who by the way had pretty bad QBs themselves). Oh, and he was roughly equal (per game) to James Washington and behind Diontae Johnson (a rookie who didn’t start until a few games into the year) — both of whom played with the same QB situation

Agreed. Given the topic at hand involves 2 guys who had massive QB issues last year, bringing up Juju's QB situation is not a good excuse.

[silvernblack151]

Well this hasn't helped my indecisiveness lol I asked the other owner his view on the 2, then I'll decide on where to go on. I think I'm contending after a down year, outside of the 4th rnd I own the 1.3, and I'm trying to wait until peak value to throw some offers around with it

[IR1]

I'd rather have Juju and I'd probably need a late 1st to close the gap. Juju is 3 years younger and more talented in my opinion.

x3

X4

[Goddard]

X2, actually kind of surprised the community soured on Juju after one season of abysmal QB play from guys who probably wouldnt even make an XFL roster.

Ridiculous excuse considering the comparison. Golladay had Jeff Driskel and David Blough at QB most of the year and still finished a top 10 WR. Courtland Sutton had a horrid QB situation and was a WR2. DJ Moore had Kyle Allen and Will Grier. Still a low end WR1

Juju couldn’t even beat the likes of Taylor Gabriel and Chris Conley on a per game basis (who by the way had pretty bad QBs themselves). Oh, and he was roughly equal (per game) to James Washington and behind Diontae Johnson (a rookie who didn’t start until a few games into the year) — both of whom played with the same QB situation

Agreed. Given the topic at hand involves 2 guys who had massive QB issues last year, bringing up Juju's QB situation is not a good excuse.

Not all backup QBs are the same. Not only were Rudolph and Duck much worse than the guys you mentioned, but they probably attempted way less passes and were a very run heavy team than the other teams (I could be wrong because I didn't fact-check that, but that's what it felt like when I watched Pitt play). People also discount the foot injury Juju suffered in week 1 that plagued him all year and he was clearly not the same player. Then missed time with a concussion. There's really no point in arguing though because people obviously made up their minds after one season and forgot what he did the two years prior, but hopefully Juju bounces back and shows his true talents.

[StripesOfKC]

Ridiculous excuse considering the comparison. Golladay had Jeff Driskel and David Blough at QB most of the year and still finished a top 10 WR. Courtland Sutton had a horrid QB situation and was a WR2. DJ Moore had Kyle Allen and Will Grier. Still a low end WR1

Juju couldn’t even beat the likes of Taylor Gabriel and Chris Conley on a per game basis (who by the way had pretty bad QBs themselves). Oh, and he was roughly equal (per game) to James Washington and behind Diontae Johnson (a rookie who didn’t start until a few games into the year) — both of whom played with the same QB situation

Agreed. Given the topic at hand involves 2 guys who had massive QB issues last year, bringing up Juju's QB situation is not a good excuse.

Not all backup QBs are the same. Not only were Rudolph and Duck much worse than the guys you mentioned, but they probably attempted way less passes and were a very run heavy team than the other teams (I could be wrong because I didn't fact-check that, but that's what it felt like when I watched Pitt play). People also discount the foot injury Juju suffered in week 1 that plagued him all year and he was clearly not the same player. Then missed time with a concussion. There's really no point in arguing though because people obviously made up their minds after one season and forgot what he did the two years prior, but hopefully Juju bounces back and shows his true talents.

Pretty sure Rudolph was a day 2 draft pick considered to have serious franchise QB potential while Blough, Kyle Allen and Brandon Allen were UDFA bums. The running factor holds some weight (though Denver was right around PIT in terms of run vs pass) but it still doesn't negate that even Diontae performed equal to if not better than Juju as the WR1 (vs Arizona and Buffalo).
I agree there's no point in arguing because people seem to think there is no difference between a first and second option or that his old QB coming off a season-ending injury will play at a high level for 5 more years just because he has a cool name, went to a big name college, plays for a big name organization and does Pizza Hut commercials

[DYNASTY BALLA$]

I would rather have Golladay and whatever else I could get from the Juju owner, as I he is still rated quite a bit higher by most. It's pretty crazy to me that Juju is the #9 overall on DLF Top 200 and Golladay is #26

[darewood11]

Juju had a knee injury as well. Very injury plagued season for a guy that was 22 and a team that had basicly no decent rb and very bad qb play. I think I'll wait and see how he plays this season but I'll take juju over kenny g not by much but an early 2nd.

[Zacsby]

I'd rather have Juju and I'd probably need a late 1st to close the gap. Juju is 3 years younger and more talented in my opinion.

X2, actually kind of surprised the community soured on Juju after one season of abysmal QB play from guys who probably wouldnt even make an XFL roster.

Ridiculous excuse considering the comparison. Golladay had Jeff Driskel and David Blough at QB most of the year and still finished a top 10 WR. Courtland Sutton had a horrid QB situation and was a WR2. DJ Moore had Kyle Allen and Will Grier. Still a low end WR1

Juju couldn’t even beat the likes of Taylor Gabriel and Chris Conley on a per game basis (who by the way had pretty bad QBs themselves). Oh, and he was roughly equal (per game) to James Washington and behind Diontae Johnson (a rookie who didn’t start until a few games into the year) — both of whom played with the same QB situation

Over the first half of the season he averaged 13 ppg, right there with Sutton. Not spectacular, but their offense was close to the most dysfunctional in the league. It really stood out to me being a Ravens fan. You really cant compare these situations, its not apples to apples.

In Kennys one GOOD game with Blough, he accounted for like 75% of Bloughs production. That's an outlier. The rest looked like Jujus games to start the year.

Kyle Allen was bad, but not a COMPLETE bum. He had some really good games. Even when he was throwing 4 picks he'd still go for over 300 yards. Rudolph could barely throw for 200.

Drew Lock was can actually sling it. Both him and Flacco are the perfect kind of QBs for Sutton.

Its nice when a WR does something with awful QB play, but you cant really expect it.

In a rebuild im taking Juju easily. If im competing Golladay, but its close.

[jpusmc0311]

I would take Juju here, but it's super close.

[Zacsby]

Pretty sure Rudolph was a day 2 draft pick considered to have serious franchise QB potential while Blough, Kyle Allen and Brandon Allen were UDFA bums. The running factor holds some weight (though Denver was right around PIT in terms of run vs pass) but it still doesn't negate that even Diontae performed equal to if not better than Juju as the WR1 (vs Arizona and Buffalo).
I agree there's no point in arguing because people seem to think there is no difference between a first and second option or that his old QB coming off a season-ending injury will play at a high level for 5 more years just because he has a cool name, went to a big name college, plays for a big name organization and does Pizza Hut commercials

So what? That literally has no bearing on how good of a QB he was last year. Was Jamarcus Russell good? He went #1 overall. He must have been better than that undrafted bum Kurt Warner. The fact you can use that as an argument discounts all your credibility in terms of saying what holds weight and what doesn't.

Your argument has so many holes in it its not even funny and you've resorted to talking about Pizza Hut commercials. Him having similar performance to Diontae in a terrible situation means something, but him having similar performance to Antonio freakin Brown just a year ago, at 22 years old, means nothing...interesting take.

[StripesOfKC]

Pretty sure Rudolph was a day 2 draft pick considered to have serious franchise QB potential while Blough, Kyle Allen and Brandon Allen were UDFA bums. The running factor holds some weight (though Denver was right around PIT in terms of run vs pass) but it still doesn't negate that even Diontae performed equal to if not better than Juju as the WR1 (vs Arizona and Buffalo).
I agree there's no point in arguing because people seem to think there is no difference between a first and second option or that his old QB coming off a season-ending injury will play at a high level for 5 more years just because he has a cool name, went to a big name college, plays for a big name organization and does Pizza Hut commercials

So what? That literally has no bearing on how good of a QB he was last year. Was Jamarcus Russell good? He went #1 overall. He must have been better than that undrafted bum Kurt Warner. The fact you can use that as an argument discounts all your credibility in terms of saying what holds weight and what doesn't.

Your argument has so many holes in it its not even funny and you've resorted to talking about Pizza Hut commercials. Him having similar performance to Diontae in a terrible situation means something, but him having similar performance to Antonio freakin Brown just a year ago, at 22 years old, means nothing...interesting take.

Considering the tiny sample sizes on each of them, I think draft position holds some weight on their ability and that it is foolish to say Rudolph is "much worse" than Kyle Allen or Blough.
Not to mention Rudolph was at least a backup QB, while Blough and Brandon Allen were legitimately 3rd stringers.
By the way, Golladay - even if you remove the Thanksgiving game - still averaged more than Juju's year round avg during his time with Blough. You say Kyle Allen had stretches of decent play but ignore that Rudolph did as well (vs Cincy the first time or maybe even the Jets game before he got hurt again)
And he had similar production to AB as the #2 option. I compared Juju's production as the #1 to Diontae's as the #1 option.
Both had to deal with garbage this year, Golladay gave decent production (not great like with Stafford but decent) and elevated his QB, while Juju shrunk and got outproduced by a 3rd round rookie on his own team who was the number 5 WR on his own team to start the year.
Don't think Juju sucks by any means but the excuse factory you have for him is ridiculous.

[Zacsby]

Considering the tiny sample sizes on each of them, I think draft position holds some weight on their ability and that it is foolish to say Rudolph is "much worse" than Kyle Allen or Blough.
Not to mention Rudolph was at least a backup QB, while Blough and Brandon Allen were legitimately 3rd stringers.
By the way, Golladay - even if you remove the Thanksgiving game - still averaged more than Juju's year round avg during his time with Blough. You say Kyle Allen had stretches of decent play but ignore that Rudolph did as well (vs Cincy the first time or maybe even the Jets game before he got hurt again)
And he had similar production to AB as the #2 option. I compared Juju's production as the #1 to Diontae's as the #1 option.
Both had to deal with garbage this year, Golladay gave decent production (not great like with Stafford but decent) and elevated his QB, while Juju shrunk and got outproduced by a 3rd round rookie on his own team who was the number 5 WR on his own team to start the year.
Don't think Juju sucks by any means but the excuse factory you have for him is ridiculous.

No, draft capital has literally no bearing on how good a QB was last year. They were either good or bad, to varying degrees. Explain to me how draft capital has anything to do with PAST performance on the field. If you wanna call throwing for 230 and 2 TDs against CIN good then go right ahead. Doesn't change the fact that it was his best game, and Kyle Allen had FIVE games better than that from a fantasy perspective. Some of them A LOT better. Golladay averaged 13.5 ppg with Blough at QB excluding that outlier game. I'll repeat...Juju averaged 13 ppg over the 1st half of the season, which is when he was healthy. Not excuses. Extremely valid and relevant points. Unlike Pizza Hut commercials and his name.

It doesn't matter whether he was #1 or #2. People get wayyyyy too caught up in that. What matters is pure production. If you're good enough to COMMAND high value targets, you're really freakin good. The better the player you're lined up across from, the higher value those targets are. Thus making them harder to earn. Guys like MT, Davante Adams, Hopkins have ridiculous market shares because...theres nobody good enough to earn a significant portion of it over them. Juju was good enough. At 22. If you want to ignore that or discount it that's cool. I would not advise it though.

[Goddard]

Considering the tiny sample sizes on each of them, I think draft position holds some weight on their ability and that it is foolish to say Rudolph is "much worse" than Kyle Allen or Blough.
Not to mention Rudolph was at least a backup QB, while Blough and Brandon Allen were legitimately 3rd stringers.
By the way, Golladay - even if you remove the Thanksgiving game - still averaged more than Juju's year round avg during his time with Blough. You say Kyle Allen had stretches of decent play but ignore that Rudolph did as well (vs Cincy the first time or maybe even the Jets game before he got hurt again)
And he had similar production to AB as the #2 option. I compared Juju's production as the #1 to Diontae's as the #1 option.
Both had to deal with garbage this year, Golladay gave decent production (not great like with Stafford but decent) and elevated his QB, while Juju shrunk and got outproduced by a 3rd round rookie on his own team who was the number 5 WR on his own team to start the year.
Don't think Juju sucks by any means but the excuse factory you have for him is ridiculous.

No, draft capital has literally no bearing on how good a QB was last year. They were either good or bad, to varying degrees. Explain to me how draft capital has anything to do with PAST performance on the field. If you wanna call throwing for 230 and 2 TDs against CIN good then go right ahead. Doesn't change the fact that it was his best game, and Kyle Allen had FIVE games better than that from a fantasy perspective. Some of them A LOT better. Golladay averaged 13.5 ppg with Blough at QB excluding that outlier game. I'll repeat...Juju averaged 13 ppg over the 1st half of the season, which is when he was healthy. Not excuses. Extremely valid and relevant points. Unlike Pizza Hut commercials and his name.

It doesn't matter whether he was #1 or #2. People get wayyyyy too caught up in that. What matters is pure production. If you're good enough to COMMAND high value targets, you're really freakin good. The better the player you're lined up across from, the higher value those targets are. Thus making them harder to earn. Guys like MT, Davante Adams, Hopkins have ridiculous market shares because...theres nobody good enough to earn a significant portion of it over them. Juju was good enough. At 22. If you want to ignore that or discount it that's cool. I would not advise it though.

Not to mention that the majority of Rudolph's passes probably went to RBs and were less than 5 yards from the line of scrimmage where the RB did most of the work. Juju really had no chance all year. These aren't excuses. They're just observations and facts that we're pointing out. If someone wants to believe that his first two years at such a young age were a fluke because he had AB next to him, but 2019 was more of the norm, then I don't know what to tell you. Golladay is a good player, but I see his ceiling pretty close to what he did last year. That's not bad at all, but I think Juju can and will be better (and has been better).

[CGW]

I agree with that. I think Golladay is a very consistent option at low end wr1/high w2, but that is likely his ceiling. Juju may have a significantly lower floor but also a significantly higher ceiling.

[cazzie33]

Juju isn't a transcendent talent and benefitted greatly from not only AB his first 2 years but a dynamic running game that was involving the rbs in the passing game to a great degree.All that attention gave Juju plenty of space and better matchups. The fact that he's drawing the #1 DB or double coverages until Johnson or Washington make the defense pay consistently contributed to his decline in production.

Nate Burleson had similar decline whenever expected to be the #1 but was excellent as the #2 guy. Juju is a better talent but has yet to prove he can be dominant if the defense is geared towards taking him out of the game. Given equal targets not sure he outdoes the other aforementioned WRs by a considerable margin if at all. Close call between DJ, Sutton , Kenny G or Juju. Youth is the only advantage I'd concede Juju over Golladay