OBJ or DJ Moore

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby ESKAY » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:29 am

One is a Hall of Fame talent and the other one isn’t. Give me the HOF.

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby Adam_172 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:52 am

ESKAY wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:29 am
One is a Hall of Fame talent and the other one isn’t. Give me the HOF.
Lol you suggesting that DJM isn't a 'potential' HOF'er in the middle of his very good 2nd season? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby CurtisMyFavMartin » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:18 am

sloth8u wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:45 pm
I dont anticipate moore getting peppered with 150 targets every year, id stick with obj if your talking a 1 for 1 swap.
Not sure how you can question Moore’s target share but not OBJ’s.

Moore has 78/121 for 1,061 and 4 TD

OBJ has 58/108 844 and 2 TD

Beckham hasn’t doesn’t win in the NFL and I think teams recognize that he’s more of a headache than he’s worth. Gimme the younger guy.
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby sloth8u » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:19 am

CurtisMyFavMartin wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:18 am
sloth8u wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:45 pm
I dont anticipate moore getting peppered with 150 targets every year, id stick with obj if your talking a 1 for 1 swap.
Not sure how you can question Moore’s target share but not OBJ’s.

Moore has 78/121 for 1,061 and 4 TD

OBJ has 58/108 844 and 2 TD

Beckham hasn’t doesn’t win in the NFL and I think teams recognize that he’s more of a headache than he’s worth. Gimme the younger guy.
Those responding are commenting about Moore's terrific season and obj's disappointing year. Think about it like this.... If your of the opinion obj is having a down year, what does a good season look like? I guess im of the opinion that this is moore at his best (low end wr1/high end wr2), whereas obj has the potential to be thee wr1.

A side note here is that moore has put up numbers via consistency, not elite weeks that are single handily winning matchups. Think your traditional edelman/landry type plays. Those types hold teams together, while elite players win championships.

I dont fault anyone for preferring moore, on my end...its strictly due to age or recent bias. Maybe some feel obj is a headache and would rather moore.

Another thing here is that its nothing new to see a wr struggle in his 1st season with a new team.

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby FantasyFoosball » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:34 am

Give me OBJ over Moore straight up.
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby nathanq42 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:31 am

Krypto_King wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:38 pm
nathanq42 wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:44 am
Idk how people are saying owning obj is a headache... literally not a peep out of him since he left NYG... He is a winner, and it seemed evident that the giants didnt have a winning culture for the past couple of years and as a result obj would get heated. If you gave 110% everyday at work and found people napping would you be cool with it? If you were out on the field and going balls to the wall for the W every single play and you saw guys taking plays/drives off, or not taking the game seriously, or not taking practice/prep seriously wouldn't you be upset?

If obj was the diva everyone says he is then he should have been primed for a meltdown this season. All that hype just to come crashing down? Supposedly a great passer in Baker turned out to be not very good this year, has obj criticized/complained about him one bit? Supposedly a great team, alleged superbowl contenders this offseason, they are 6-7 without a shot at even making the playoffs, has he complained about his team or coaches? All this hype around him finally getting out of NYG and onto a team with a great passer, obj was expected to have his best season yet, he will likely barely pass 1,000 yards and have his statistically worst season at all, has he made any waves in the media?

Has he had a few injuries? Yeah, its a bit concerning, but I believe he is doing everything he can to keep himself healthy, stuff happens, its a rough game. If KA can come back from being Mr injury, so can obj.
odell was a diva for running his mouth and hugging nets, not for being intense. clearly you missed his watch bs this year and now him telling other teams he wants out in the middle of the year.

He is a great player but the injuries are piling up and his situation seems shaky. I would take DJM but it is close.
Had no idea about the watch thing, I still dont get it tbh, he wore an expensive watch on the field? ... I dont really see the issue here...

And have you not heard about the mishandling of his sports hernia? Even Baker Mayfield has called out the team staff in a post game press conference for mishandling the situation, I wouldn't blame obj for wanting out if he isnt being taken care of properly by the team, I wouldn't want him there, and no one should blame him for wanting a work place that takes care of their workers. And right now all it is is rumours about obj wanting out, he hasn't made a verifiable peep about anything this season

And I just think he is a passionate guy that loves football, his problem in NYG wasn't that he wasnt getting enough targets or TDs or something trivial like how AB used to gripe about, it was that the team was giving up, and I love that he is so passionate about winning and playing to your best. Ever notice how everyone in the locker rooms never have a complaint about obj, its always front office or media?
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RB Rashaad Penny, Austin Ekeler, Royce Freeman, Jerrick McKinnon, Justice Hill
WR Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Junior, DJ Moore, Dede Westbrook, Parris Campbell, Preston Williams, Zach Parscal, James Washington, Hakeem Butler
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby hoos89 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:49 am

ESKAY wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:29 am
One is a Hall of Fame talent and the other one isn’t. Give me the HOF.
sloth8u wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:19 am
Those responding are commenting about Moore's terrific season and obj's disappointing year. Think about it like this.... If your of the opinion obj is having a down year, what does a good season look like? I guess im of the opinion that this is moore at his best (low end wr1/high end wr2), whereas obj has the potential to be thee wr1.
DJ Moore is a 22 year old WR in his 2nd season. He is currently tracking for ~2,300 yards from scrimmage through two seasons.

Receivers with 2,300 yards from scrimmage prior to turning 23:

Randy Moss
Josh Gordon
JuJu Smith-Schuster

That's it. That's the list. I simply do not understand how people can determine that a WR who is performing at such a high level at such a young age in spite of a minus situation is definitely not an HoF talent or that he's capped at low end WR1. The way many people seem to think about and value DJ Moore is completely counter to the way young, breakout WRs are typically treated and I do not understand why.
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Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby nathanq42 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:03 am

hoos89 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:49 am
I simply do not understand how people can determine that a WR who is performing at such a high level at such a young age in spite of a minus situation is definitely not an HoF talent or that he's capped at low end WR1. The way many people seem to think about and value DJ Moore is completely counter to the way young, breakout WRs are typically treated and I do not understand why.
He is too quiet of a personality imo, I love him and think he doesnt get the respect he is owed, but if he had a big social media presence like JuJu or if he was controversial and outspoken like Moss he would be blowing up. People will know his name by this time next year. Kid is a stud
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RB Rashaad Penny, Austin Ekeler, Royce Freeman, Jerrick McKinnon, Justice Hill
WR Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Junior, DJ Moore, Dede Westbrook, Parris Campbell, Preston Williams, Zach Parscal, James Washington, Hakeem Butler
TE TJ Hockenson, Darren Waller, Jacob Hollister

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby Goddard » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:06 am

hoos89 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:49 am
Receivers with 2,300 yards from scrimmage prior to turning 23:

Randy Moss
Josh Gordon
JuJu Smith-Schuster

That's it. That's the list.
Not to take anything away from what Moore's done, but this stat is so misleading. Not many players enter the NFL at age 20. You shouldn't be looking at yards prior to turning age 23, but most yards in a players first 2 season. And oh btw, I think OBJ still has the most by any player in NFL history. I'm sure Moore will be somewhere up there as well, but the list will be longer than the one you listed.

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby WhatWouldDitkaDo » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:09 am

sloth8u wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:19 am
Those responding are commenting about Moore's terrific season and obj's disappointing year. Think about it like this.... If your of the opinion obj is having a down year, what does a good season look like? I guess im of the opinion that this is moore at his best (low end wr1/high end wr2), whereas obj has the potential to be thee wr1.
This is my thought as well. Beckham has 59/844/2 with CLE playing against defenses like BAL, SF, and NE earlier this season, and he did this playing through a groin injury all year. He's still my dynasty WR5 behind only Hill, Thomas, Adams, and Hopkins.
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby hoos89 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:50 am

Goddard wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:06 am

Not to take anything away from what Moore's done, but this stat is so misleading. Not many players enter the NFL at age 20. You shouldn't be looking at yards prior to turning age 23, but most yards in a players first 2 season. And oh btw, I think OBJ still has the most by any player in NFL history. I'm sure Moore will be somewhere up there as well, but the list will be longer than the one you listed.
It's not misleading: Moore's age is part of the point. It is harder to excel at a younger age, and I think implies more room for development than players who are older. And for the record (per pro-football-reference) 107 WRs have completed a season prior to turning 22. Players who played 2 seasons prior to turning 23, but did not reach the 2300 yards from scrimmage mark include: Amari Cooper, Mike Evans, Keenan Allen, Sammy Watkins, Percy Harvin, DeAndre Hopkins, Brandin Cooks, Allen Robinson, and Chris Godwin.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13, 2.03, 2.11, 2.12, 3.05, 3.11, 4.03, 5.03

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Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby Goddard » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:01 am

hoos89 wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:50 am
Goddard wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:06 am

Not to take anything away from what Moore's done, but this stat is so misleading. Not many players enter the NFL at age 20. You shouldn't be looking at yards prior to turning age 23, but most yards in a players first 2 season. And oh btw, I think OBJ still has the most by any player in NFL history. I'm sure Moore will be somewhere up there as well, but the list will be longer than the one you listed.
It's not misleading: Moore's age is part of the point. It is harder to excel at a younger age, and I think implies more room for development than players who are older. And for the record (per pro-football-reference) 107 WRs have completed a season prior to turning 22. Players who played 2 seasons prior to turning 23, but did not reach the 2300 yards from scrimmage mark include: Amari Cooper, Mike Evans, Keenan Allen, Sammy Watkins, Percy Harvin, DeAndre Hopkins, Brandin Cooks, Allen Robinson, and Chris Godwin.
Where are you even getting 2,300 yards for Moore? Are you including punt and kick returns?
Last edited by Goddard on Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby Goddard » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:05 am

I just looked at Amari Coopers first two years, and he had 2,223 receiving yards and 159 rushing. Not including return yards, because that's a pretty useless stat to include to try and prop a player up in dynasty unless you're playing in a league with return yards. So just the first name on your list exceeded 2,300 yards at age 22. Not sure where you're getting your information from.

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby Dibbles » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:38 am

This is pretty simple in my eyes:

Option A:
Putting up very consistent WR1 numbers in just his 2nd year as a pro
Doing so with consistently horrible QB play
Plays with one of the best RB's in the game (if not "the" best) who is very young and who opposing defenses must account for
Plays with a solid and young #2 WR on other side of the field who opposing defenses must account for
Plays with a young up and coming TE who opposing defenses must account for (and a still-solid, soon to retire TE)
Has minimal injury history
Is a solid character with no on or off the field issues
Is very likely to play for the same solid offensive team for the foreseeable future

Option B:
Is 4 years older than option A
Has proven he can put up elite seasons in years past
Has struggled mightily with consistency for 3 seasons running
Has significant injury history
Is on a team who has been in purgatory for eternity, but currently has a stud RB, a solid WR #2, and a still-young-question-mark at QB
Has MAJOR on and off the field issues
Will very likely be on a different team sometime over the next 1-3 seasons

I will take Option A 100 out of 100 times, regardless of how great Option B's seasons were 3 years ago.

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Re: OBJ or DJ Moore

Postby hoos89 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:15 am

Goddard wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:05 am
I just looked at Amari Coopers first two years, and he had 2,223 receiving yards and 159 rushing. Not including return yards, because that's a pretty useless stat to include to try and prop a player up in dynasty unless you're playing in a league with return yards. So just the first name on your list exceeded 2,300 yards at age 22. Not sure where you're getting your information from.
Amari Cooper had -3 rushing yards his first 2 seasons and he has 21 in his career...where are you getting your information?


Also, I clearly said yards from scrimmage, which means receiving + rushing yards. Return yards would be included in all-purpose yards, not yards from scrimmage. I also said that DJ Moore is tracking for ~2,300 yards from scrimmage. He is on pace for 1,343 yards from scrimmage this season and he had 960 last season. That's 2,303.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13, 2.03, 2.11, 2.12, 3.05, 3.11, 4.03, 5.03

Team 3: 12 Team PPR, 6 pt Pass TD - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Tannehill
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
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