Ethical Dilemma

This is the place for team advice - should I make this trade, should I draft that player, etc.
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Jcedwards
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby Jcedwards » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:19 am

Thanks everyone for the input. I felt like this was wrong, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't overreacting or missing something. I straight up told the commish my thoughts and that I would be leaving the league if nothing was done about it. I'm not going to stay in a league that allows this type of activity to occur.

The Golladay trade itself was a horrendous one. Golladay is worth more than that entire package, and then DJ and 20 2nd on top of that is nuts. I'm not normally one to veto trades either, but that one is close to collusion IMO. I know that myself and another guy have offered better packages for Golladay and were shot down, so that also raised a red flag for me that he accepted this trade. I'd still hate the situation if literally anything was going back in the Gus trade, but it wouldn't be as big a deal, but trading for absolutely nothing is wrong.
12 team .5 PPR league. 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 FLEX, 1 D/ST, 1 K, 13 BN, 1 IR

QB- Mahomes / Winston / Carr
RB- Kamara / Barkley / Mixon / Aaron Jones / Bernard / Justice Hill / Chris Thompson / Collins
WR- M Thomas / OBJ / Cooper / Lockett / Fitzgerald / Perriman
TE- Ertz / Goedert / Njoku
D/ST- Bears / Pats
K- Butker

IR- Herndon

Taxi- Pollard / Sutton / Diontae Johnson / Boykin / Dawson Knox

Picks- 2020: 1.12, 2.02, 3.05
2021: 1st, 2nd, 2nd

mgregoirec
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby mgregoirec » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:54 am

Yup, you have to leave.
Briseur de cennes- 12-team standard scoring w/ IDP (9-4) - 5 keepers

QB : Ryan Tannehill, Daniel Jones, Matt Ryan
RB : Austin Ekeler, Joe Mixon, David Montgomery, Devonta Freeman, Latavius Murray
WR : Stefon Diggs, Courtland Sutton , Mike Williams, Darius Slayton
RB/WR : Chris Godwin
TE : Mark Andrews, TJ Hockenson
K : Chris Boswell
DL : Justin Houston
LB : Shaquil Barrett
DB : Landon Collins

abloom
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby abloom » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:02 pm

Jcedwards wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

TEAM A trades Golladay, David Johnson, 2020 2nd
TEAM B trades Marvin Jones, Ballage, 3 3rds (2 2020, 1 2021)

Well the same 2 teams made another trade of Team B trading Gus Edwards to Team A for absolutely nothing.
To me, due to the rules of the league, this is actually fine tbh. I mean the values are way off, but Team A and B realized after the trade was made, that it wouldn't be allowed because Team A was going to lose their 2nd round pick. (Or I guess if it went through they were going to lose their 1st). So they essentially modified the trade to include Edwards going to A so that Team A could play him and therefor get the 2020 2nd. It was in Team B's best interest to send Gus Edwards for nothing because they aren't actually receiving nothing, they are receiving Golladay, DJ, and the 2020 20nd. For Team A, I have no idea why they want to make the deal, but hey if they like the 3rds, Ballage, and Jones thats their buisness, they got an additional asset in Edwards.

Should the teams have realized there was a problem beforehand? yes, but they fixed the trade that wouldn't have worked.
Dynasty Team #1: 2019 2nd Place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1qb, 2rb, 2wr, 1te, 2flex, 1DST, 1K

QB: Tannehill, Haskins
RB: CMC, Fournette, Guice, Peterson, Armstead
WR: OBJ, Evans, Edelman, C Samuel
TE: Goedert, Henry
DST: NE, BAL
K: Zurlein

2020 picks: rounds 1.09,1.11,4.11,5.04,5.11,7.11
------------
Dynasty Team #2: 2019 3rd place
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1qb, 2rb, 2wr, 1te, 1superflex, 1flex, 1DST, 1K

QB: Wilson, Murray, Cousins, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Ingram, S Michel, Breida, J Hill
WR: Nuk, Allen, Godwin, Sutton
TE: Fant
K: Boswell
DST: PIT

2020 picks: 1.03, 1.06, 1.07, 3.03, 3.10, 4.01, 4.02, 5.10, 7.10
------------
Redraft 2019 Champs :dance:
10 team, 0.5ppr, 1qb, 1 rb, 2wr, 1 te, 2 flex, 1DST, 1K

Keeper: Kamara

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BigBawseRoss
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby BigBawseRoss » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:18 pm

abloom wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:02 pm
Jcedwards wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

TEAM A trades Golladay, David Johnson, 2020 2nd
TEAM B trades Marvin Jones, Ballage, 3 3rds (2 2020, 1 2021)

Well the same 2 teams made another trade of Team B trading Gus Edwards to Team A for absolutely nothing.
To me, due to the rules of the league, this is actually fine tbh. I mean the values are way off, but Team A and B realized after the trade was made, that it wouldn't be allowed because Team A was going to lose their 2nd round pick. (Or I guess if it went through they were going to lose their 1st). So they essentially modified the trade to include Edwards going to A so that Team A could play him and therefor get the 2020 2nd. It was in Team B's best interest to send Gus Edwards for nothing because they aren't actually receiving nothing, they are receiving Golladay, DJ, and the 2020 20nd. For Team A, I have no idea why they want to make the deal, but hey if they like the 3rds, Ballage, and Jones thats their buisness, they got an additional asset in Edwards.

Should the teams have realized there was a problem beforehand? yes, but they fixed the trade that wouldn't have worked.
so to you it is fine to not care enough about the league, or your own draft picks, to be bothered to set your lineup, BUT pay enough attention to make a bad trade for that same team?

its fishy as hell my man
team 1
12 team, 1 pt for 4 rec, 0.1 per rush
1qb, 3 rb, 4 wr, te, k, 4 idp
Rivers , Rosen, Fitzpatrick, Tyrod
Kamara, McCoy, D FreemanCohen, Bibbs, Clement,J. Allen, ty mont,Ito Smith
K Allen, Hopkins, M Williams, AROB Alshon,KeKe,MVS,T McLaurin
Ebron Graham, Njoku, Irv

team 2
12 team .5ppr
qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, te, flx,flx,
Trubitsky, Dak
Chubb,Mixon, D Henry,Coleman, D Harris, Armstead, Mostert
Hopkins, K Allen, M Evans, C Davis, Watkins, Arob, M Williams, Edleman, J Gordon, Hurd
Ertz, Everett, Fant


team 3
http://www61.myfantasyleague.com/2019/o ... =07&F=0008

team 4
https://www55.myfantasyleague.com/2019/ ... =07&F=0010

team 5
http://www57.myfantasyleague.com/2019/o ... =0008&O=07

team 6
http://www54.myfantasyleague.com/2019/o ... =07&F=0004

team 7
https://www51.myfantasyleague.com/2019/ ... =07&F=0011

abloom
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby abloom » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:16 pm

BigBawseRoss wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:18 pm
abloom wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:02 pm
Jcedwards wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

TEAM A trades Golladay, David Johnson, 2020 2nd
TEAM B trades Marvin Jones, Ballage, 3 3rds (2 2020, 1 2021)

Well the same 2 teams made another trade of Team B trading Gus Edwards to Team A for absolutely nothing.
To me, due to the rules of the league, this is actually fine tbh. I mean the values are way off, but Team A and B realized after the trade was made, that it wouldn't be allowed because Team A was going to lose their 2nd round pick. (Or I guess if it went through they were going to lose their 1st). So they essentially modified the trade to include Edwards going to A so that Team A could play him and therefor get the 2020 2nd. It was in Team B's best interest to send Gus Edwards for nothing because they aren't actually receiving nothing, they are receiving Golladay, DJ, and the 2020 20nd. For Team A, I have no idea why they want to make the deal, but hey if they like the 3rds, Ballage, and Jones thats their buisness, they got an additional asset in Edwards.

Should the teams have realized there was a problem beforehand? yes, but they fixed the trade that wouldn't have worked.
so to you it is fine to not care enough about the league, or your own draft picks, to be bothered to set your lineup, BUT pay enough attention to make a bad trade for that same team?

its fishy as hell my man
I said the values are way off. The question was is it ethical to trade a player for nothing. I said in this case it was.

As for the question as to whether the OP should stay in this league, no I wouldn't stay here.
Dynasty Team #1: 2019 2nd Place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1qb, 2rb, 2wr, 1te, 2flex, 1DST, 1K

QB: Tannehill, Haskins
RB: CMC, Fournette, Guice, Peterson, Armstead
WR: OBJ, Evans, Edelman, C Samuel
TE: Goedert, Henry
DST: NE, BAL
K: Zurlein

2020 picks: rounds 1.09,1.11,4.11,5.04,5.11,7.11
------------
Dynasty Team #2: 2019 3rd place
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1qb, 2rb, 2wr, 1te, 1superflex, 1flex, 1DST, 1K

QB: Wilson, Murray, Cousins, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Ingram, S Michel, Breida, J Hill
WR: Nuk, Allen, Godwin, Sutton
TE: Fant
K: Boswell
DST: PIT

2020 picks: 1.03, 1.06, 1.07, 3.03, 3.10, 4.01, 4.02, 5.10, 7.10
------------
Redraft 2019 Champs :dance:
10 team, 0.5ppr, 1qb, 1 rb, 2wr, 1 te, 2 flex, 1DST, 1K

Keeper: Kamara

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Jcedwards
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby Jcedwards » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:46 am

Thanks everyone. What makes it even worse is that the commish talked to the parties involved (he actually works with them) and one of them said that they “forgot” to include Gus, so the commissioner believed that and is letting the trade stand. If he would take a step back and look at the entire situation, I think he would see why myself and a couple others are mad about it. Also, he still hasn’t taken the picks away from the 1 team from not starting 2 players. So needless to say, I’m still mad about the entire situation.
12 team .5 PPR league. 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 FLEX, 1 D/ST, 1 K, 13 BN, 1 IR

QB- Mahomes / Winston / Carr
RB- Kamara / Barkley / Mixon / Aaron Jones / Bernard / Justice Hill / Chris Thompson / Collins
WR- M Thomas / OBJ / Cooper / Lockett / Fitzgerald / Perriman
TE- Ertz / Goedert / Njoku
D/ST- Bears / Pats
K- Butker

IR- Herndon

Taxi- Pollard / Sutton / Diontae Johnson / Boykin / Dawson Knox

Picks- 2020: 1.12, 2.02, 3.05
2021: 1st, 2nd, 2nd

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Adam_172
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby Adam_172 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:09 am

I wouldn't trade Golladay alone for that pile of junk, let alone add DJ AND a 2nd!

Leave the league at the end of the season and have no regrets.
TEAM 1
Dynasty Best-Ball PPR, Superflex & 2TE (42 man League - 3 copies of each player)

Team here: https://www63.myfantasyleague.com/2019/ ... =0017&O=07

TEAM 2
Dynasty PPR (12 man League) ORPHAN TEAM

1 QB, 2 - 4 RB's, 2 - 4 WR's, 1 - 3 TE's and 1 DEF (9 man weekly starter)

QB's- Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Nick Foles.
RB's- Marlon Mack, Devonta Freeman, Rashaad Penny, Lamar Miller, Dion Lewis, Dare Ogunbowale, Wayne Gallman.
WR's- Keenan Allen, D.J Moore, Marvin Jones, Emmanuel Sanders, Daesean Hamilton, Paul Richardson, Marquise Goodwin, David Moore, Travis Benjamin, Deon Cain, Rashard Higgins.
TE's- Greg Olsen, Will Dissly, Ian Thomas, Jace Sternberger, Hayden Hurst.
DEF- Vikings, Bills.

Rookie Picks:
2020 - 1.05, 3.05, 4.05 and 5.05

Mephistopheles
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:01 am

Who the bloody bleep trades Golladay for Marvin Jones....and adds to it???

The Edwards thing isn't an issue...that's just the Team B realizing that the trade was in jeopardy and throwing an RB at Team A to keep it from being overturned.

The real issue IMO is that Team A rejected much better and more valuable offers from you (and others?) for Golladay in favor of this trash. In the leagues that I commish, when someone says they made a better offer than a trade that was accepted, I sit up and take notice and investigate. That's one of the most certain indicators of collusion as there gets in this game.

You say Team A is new to the league...How did Team A get admitted/referred to the league? Did Team B have anything to do with it?

Regardless of anything...run and don't look back. Good luck.
PSA - Haggling is NOT the same as negotiating.

From the home office in Grand Rapids, MI, the Top 5 signs you suck as a trade partner (and probably as a human being)

5. You can name or fabricate 5 risks on every player not on your team.
4. You always respond that you don't value another team's players as highly as they do.
3. You steer conversations away from ADP or any other form of consensus or rankings to gauge trade value.
2. Your trade strategy centers around seeing where someone's at on a player or that "it's just a first offer".
1. Your trade offers are rejected without counter or outright ignored.
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Jcedwards
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby Jcedwards » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:01 am
Who the bloody bleep trades Golladay for Marvin Jones....and adds to it???

The Edwards thing isn't an issue...that's just the Team B realizing that the trade was in jeopardy and throwing an RB at Team A to keep it from being overturned.

The real issue IMO is that Team A rejected much better and more valuable offers from you (and others?) for Golladay in favor of this trash. In the leagues that I commish, when someone says they made a better offer than a trade that was accepted, I sit up and take notice and investigate. That's one of the most certain indicators of collusion as there gets in this game.

You say Team A is new to the league...How did Team A get admitted/referred to the league? Did Team B have anything to do with it?

Regardless of anything...run and don't look back. Good luck.
The commish referred Team A to the league. He works with this guy, but Team B also works with those 2 as well.
12 team .5 PPR league. 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 FLEX, 1 D/ST, 1 K, 13 BN, 1 IR

QB- Mahomes / Winston / Carr
RB- Kamara / Barkley / Mixon / Aaron Jones / Bernard / Justice Hill / Chris Thompson / Collins
WR- M Thomas / OBJ / Cooper / Lockett / Fitzgerald / Perriman
TE- Ertz / Goedert / Njoku
D/ST- Bears / Pats
K- Butker

IR- Herndon

Taxi- Pollard / Sutton / Diontae Johnson / Boykin / Dawson Knox

Picks- 2020: 1.12, 2.02, 3.05
2021: 1st, 2nd, 2nd

PTW32
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby PTW32 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 pm

abloom wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:02 pm
Jcedwards wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:06 pm

TEAM A trades Golladay, David Johnson, 2020 2nd
TEAM B trades Marvin Jones, Ballage, 3 3rds (2 2020, 1 2021)

Well the same 2 teams made another trade of Team B trading Gus Edwards to Team A for absolutely nothing.
To me, due to the rules of the league, this is actually fine tbh. I mean the values are way off, but Team A and B realized after the trade was made, that it wouldn't be allowed because Team A was going to lose their 2nd round pick. (Or I guess if it went through they were going to lose their 1st). So they essentially modified the trade to include Edwards going to A so that Team A could play him and therefor get the 2020 2nd. It was in Team B's best interest to send Gus Edwards for nothing because they aren't actually receiving nothing, they are receiving Golladay, DJ, and the 2020 20nd. For Team A, I have no idea why they want to make the deal, but hey if they like the 3rds, Ballage, and Jones thats their buisness, they got an additional asset in Edwards.

Should the teams have realized there was a problem beforehand? yes, but they fixed the trade that wouldn't have worked.
This is how I feel, the 2nd trade was really just part of the 1sts trade.

I've actually done something semi simular.

One of my league is 16 keepers and an 8 round rookie/FA draft. Every team must have 8 picks in those 8 rounds (no more no less) but yahoo show picks for like 20 rounds. So after a few counters back and forth with a guy i received and offer of a 1st and a 2nd for Singletary, Penny, a 8th and a 9th. I accepted and then realized this game me 9 picks and him 7. I didnt want the trade overturned so I quickly sent him an offer of a 8th for the 9th he just got from me to put us back on track. Technically the 2nd trade was something (a pick the exists) for nothing (a pick that doesnt)

Anyway as for this situation, I think the bigger issue is that the guy cant be bothered to set a lineup. Its one thing if it happens bc julio is a late scratch on a holiday when people are busy, but 2 weeks in a row and 3 spots the 2nd week is hard to excuse.
10 Team PPR
QB, 2RB, 3WR, 2TE, 3Flex

QB: Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, Jameis Winston
RB: Dalvin Cook, James Conner, Phillip Lindsay, Royce Freeman, TJ Yeldon, Darwin Thompson, Alexander Mattison, Traveon Williams, Miles Gaskin, Bryce Love,
WR: Odell Beckham Jr., Chris Godwin, Kenny Golladay, Tyler Boyd, Larry Fitzgerald, Jamison Crowder, Keke Coutee, Miles Boykin, Equanimeous St. Brown, Josh Doctson, Antonio Callaway
TE: Travis Kelce, George Kittle, Evan Engram, Kahale Warring

2020 Picks: none


10 Team PPR
QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 3Flex, 1K
QB: Baker Mayfeild, Drew Lock, Big Ben, Tom Brady
RB: Dalvin Cook, Derek Henry, Alexander Mattison, Peyton Barber, Justin Jackson
WR: Stefan Diggs, Allen Robinson, Cortland Sutton, DK Metcalf, Adam Thelien, TreQuan Smith, Diontae Johnson, Dante Pettis, Andy Isabella, Albert Wilson, Adam Humphries
TE: Mark Andrews, Jace Sternberger, Vance McDonald, Irv Smith Jr, Hayden Hurst, Delanie Walker

2020 Picks: 1.01,1.03, 1.09

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Eight7Seven
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Re: Ethical Dilemma

Postby Eight7Seven » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:27 am

I don't think this is collusion, I think it's more likely that the owner who traded away Golladay is ignorant of dynasty values and got fleeced by his co-worker. I think it's unlikely that he's very invested in the league as a whole. The problem is he paid his dues and gets to run his team as he sees fit. Like many have suggested I'd also be quitting this league in the off season.
Team One: 12 Team Superflex- IDP- PPR- Dynasty
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BZy ... FqvIlHVWpM

Team Three: 12 Team- Superflex- IDP- PPR- Dynasty
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gFT ... 281EL80NxY


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