Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

This is the place for team advice - should I make this trade, should I draft that player, etc.

This trade WAS vetoed. Should it have been? (See below for details)

Yes, the league was right to veto this trade
2
3%
No, the league was wrong to veto this trade
62
97%
 
Total votes: 64

Mtt33
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby Mtt33 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:00 pm

StripesOfKC wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:37 pm
No idea if people who say “no veto ever” actually understand the reality of what they are saying. It is dynasty. It is pretty much impossible to prove collusion. There are trades that will 100% ruin the competition in a league for years if they go through. If you give the contending Zeke and Barkley owner CMC or MT for Andy Isabella+Justice Hill+3rd, your league will not be all that competitive for years.
This meets the threshold of ruining a league. Giving a RB1 at a decent age and not getting a single asset the level of a 1st round pick back
Trades affect the whole league not just the teams involved. Giving a pile of underperforming garbage for a stud should 100% get a veto.
Rip into me all you want and tell me how giving Donte Moncrief and a 2nd for JuJu is “fair and should stand” but when something like this happens in your league, then you can talk about how all trades should stand
“Single asset the level of a 1st”. So I’m guessing if it was the 1st place teams 1st round pick instead of the projected 1st overall pick in the 2nd it would be ok? This is a ridiculous veto.

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snaps06
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby snaps06 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:21 pm

StripesOfKC wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:37 pm
No idea if people who say “no veto ever” actually understand the reality of what they are saying. It is dynasty. It is pretty much impossible to prove collusion. There are trades that will 100% ruin the competition in a league for years if they go through. If you give the contending Zeke and Barkley owner CMC or MT for Andy Isabella+Justice Hill+3rd, your league will not be all that competitive for years.
This meets the threshold of ruining a league. Giving a RB1 at a decent age and not getting a single asset the level of a 1st round pick back
Trades affect the whole league not just the teams involved. Giving a pile of underperforming garbage for a stud should 100% get a veto.
Rip into me all you want and tell me how giving Donte Moncrief and a 2nd for JuJu is “fair and should stand” but when something like this happens in your league, then you can talk about how all trades should stand
4 months ago Fournette was NOT considered an "RB1 at a decent age." He was an injury prone headcase that was considered at best a RB2 by a lot of people. Values fluctuate wildly throughout the years. This is probably the most ridiculous, misleading post in this thread.

I also like how you used Isabella, Justice Hill, and a 3rd for MT or CMC as your glamorous comparison. That's not even close to the trade in question, and completely discredited your post.
Team 1: 12-Team 0.5 PPR '16 & '17 3rd Place
REBUILDING 2019
QB RB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex Flex
Kyler,Stafford,Rosen
JonWilliams,Duke,Gio,Yeldon,Mattison,Snell,DarwinT
Cooper,Juju,Godwin,Kirk,Washington,AJBrown,Reynolds
Henry,Andrews,Everett
2020 Picks: 5,8,12,15,18,24,25,27,29,32
2021: 1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5

Team 2: 12-Team 0.5 PPR '17 2nd Place
QB RB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex
Rodgers,Rivers,Stafford
Zeke,Conner,Bell,Hyde,Duke,Mattison,Scarborough,Edmonds
Hopkins,Thomas,Cooks,Watkins,MWilliams,PWill
Kittle,Henry,Ebron
2020: 2,3

Team 3: 14-Team SF,PPR,0.25/rush '18 3rd Place
QB RB RB WR WR TE Flex Flex Flex SFlex
Cousins,Kyler,Hoyer
Zeke,LMurray,Ingram,Scarborough,Gio,BHill
Evans,DJMoore,Watkins,Boyd,Davis,Lazard
Fant,McDonald,Fells

Team 4: 16-Team, 6 pt all TD,PPR Startup 2019
QB RB RB WR WR TE FLEX FLEX
Stafford,Mariota,Tanny, Rosen
KJ,Jacobs,RFreeman,Mattison,BHill
DJMoore,Watkins,Lockett,Isabella,Washington,Ross
Fells,Howard,Herndon
2020 Picks: 6,9,10
2021:1,1,2,2,3,4

honcho55
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby honcho55 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:45 am

I really only skimmed the responses so far, so consider that with this post.

This trade isn’t even that bad.

As anti veto as this forum is (which I largely agree with) I’m surprised there’s any support for a veto here.
my main league, half PPR, all TDs 6, -3 for INT
14 team
start 1QB, 1RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2WRT. Roster 15, 2 IR. keep 10 *transitioning to more keepers

QB: Wilson, Carr
RB: E Elliot, D Henry, M Ingram, M Boone, P Laird
WR. O. Beckham, J Smith-Schuster, M Thomas, AJ Brown, C Beasley, B Perriman
TE. T Kelce, D Goedert

2020 picks: 1.02, 1.03, 2.02, 3rd, 4th
2021: two 1sts, 2, two 3s, 4
2022: three 1sts, 2nd, 3rd, 5th

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pinchdrafter
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby pinchdrafter » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:15 am

Why don't do you have the owners who vetoed state their reasons on your message board and weigh in their thoughts. No rebuttal = no veto. It is too easy to hide behind a vote without stating your reason for not allowing a trade even a bad one.

Good luck in your outcome.
Team 1 12 team SF PPR Dynasty
Roster 27

QB(1): DJones/DPrescott
RB(2): JJacobs/SMichel/KBallage/RArmstead/GEdwards/DGuice(IR)/RBonnafon/D'Ernest Johnson/MWalton/JWilson/THomer
WR(3): RAnderdson/CBeebe(IR)/ACallaway/RGage/CGodwin/DHamilton/DHopkins/KKirkwood(IR)/DKMetcalf/JRoss(IR)/CSamuel/DSamuel/SShepard/Duke Williams
TE(1): JAkins/OJHoward/DNjoku(IR)/KWarring(IR)/LWillson
Super Flex(1)
Flex (WR/RB/TE)(1)
Bench: 18

2020 picks
1,1,2,3,4,5

Team 2 12 team PPR Dynasty
Roster 25


QB(1): RWilson
RB(2): CCarson/NChubb/TCohen/GEdwards/AEkeler/DGuice/JJacobs/AJones/LMiller/JSamuels/MWalton/Jamaal Williams
WR(3): JJArcega-Whiteside/N'Keal Harry/Diontae Johnson/KKirkwood/DKMetcalf/AMiller/DJMoore/SShepard/Preston Williams/Tyrell Williams
TE(1): MGesicki/OJ Howard
TD(1): SF
Flex (WR/RB/TE)(1)

2020 picks
1,2,3,4


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FiremanEd
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby FiremanEd » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:17 pm

No chance this should be vetoed and anyone who saying it should at face value is frankly unfit for dynasty. There is no collusion and absolutely not way to imply that there is at face value here. You may disagree with the value of the players/package, but it is clear that both sides have assets and achieved what they wanted. There is logic and value to the trade. If this in any way is your threshold of what can be vetoed, stop playing dynasty or toughen up, and realize that you don’t truly have an idea of what 2020 holds. The package could very easily come ahead in this exchange when all is said and done. This shouldn’t even be a question.

badbuddah
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby badbuddah » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:24 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:51 pm
I think the Jacquizz/Hernandez trade is the only one that actually came particularly close...and the value STILL ended up being on the other side.
That's a little revisionist history don'tcha think? You could then make that argument for any player and hence why it is a strawman. "Well technically Breida for CMC is fair since CMC might die in a car accident next week! Who knows! Maybe he will have CP found on his phone!" I mean c'mon. Unless you KNEW about states evidence with Hernandez, that was a terrible, awful trade, that proves collusion. There is a big difference between people having different valuations on guys, and a straight up JJAW for Hopkins type deal where it's like GTFO. I agree with no vetoes but this was a bad example imo.
12 Team UNLIMITED Keeper / 23 Roster 1.0-PPR: 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 WR/RB/TE, 1 K, 1 DEF 2 IR - 6th Year

QB: L. Jackson, Drew Lock, J. Brissett, K. Allen
RB: D. Cook, Aaron Jones, N. Chubb, L. Murray, A. Mattison
WR: D. Hopkins, J. Jones, D. Adams, J. Shuster, K. Golloday, A. Jeffery, C. Kirk, D. Samuel
TE: Z. Ertz, O.J. Howard, J. Sternberger, G. Everett
K: N. Folk, M. Badgley
DEF: San Francisco

tbbuc5.dw
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby tbbuc5.dw » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:30 pm

This is how rebuilds rebuild and how contenders win chips no way should be vetoed
Team 1 PPR QB/1RB/3WR/3Flex(RB/WR/TE) No TE Req.
QB- Rodgers/Jimmy G/Mahomes
RB- Ingram/Miller/Gio/Ekler/Rawls
WR-Cooper/A.J. Green/Baldwin/R. Anderson/R. Matthews/P. Richardson/Lee/M. Williams/White/J. Brown
TE- Eifert

No Picks.
Team 2 14 team PPR .25PPC TE Prem(1.5) Superflex 8 starters 2018 Startup
QB- Newton/Dak/Brisset
RB- Anderson/Dixon/Gillislee
WR- Diggs/Parker/Cobb/Fuller/Stills/Ty. Williams/Sharpe
TE- Kelce/Graham/Hooper/V. Davis

1.01/1.10/2.02/3.07/3.10/4.12

Team 4 12 team PPR TE Prem(1.5) QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2 Flex(RB/WR/TE) 2nd to last =[
QB- M. Ryan, A. Smith
RB- Coleman, D. Murray, Forman Clement,
WR- OBJ, ARob, Hilton, Landry,T. Benjamin, Hurns, Treadwell, C. Rodgers, C. Samuel
TE- JT, Kittle, R. Griffen

1.02/1.04/2.02/3.02/4.02

sloth8u
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby sloth8u » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:51 pm

Suprised a veto thread is still going on here. In short, most here feel that there should be no veto in dynasty leagues. Mainly because value changes quickly and something today can look very different in short time.

Other factors include how individuals value players differently and how/who a veto is to be determined.

Op, if your trade is reversed, id expect for a standard to be set for what is vetoed. For example....this particular deal has the package side a late 1st short on the dlf trade analyser. Any future deals a late 1st or more short, should also be automatically vetoed.

Good luck with this. As you can see... Your best option is to join a league with no veto. Your going to see some bad trades, but you can always get any deal through.

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snaps06
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby snaps06 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:48 pm

So, what is the outcome of this, OP?

Also, here's one more major factor to weigh in on that is something strategic and goes beyond the face value of the package....

Before talking the strategy, I need to make two assumptions:
1) "Tanking" is illegal in this league.
2) The team receiving the package still has his 2020 1st

Now, factoring in those two assumptions, it makes perfect strategic sense for Team B to trade away Fournette for multiple reasons:
1) He can legally "tank" easier without having to put Fournette in his lineup. Ross goes on IR, and JJAW/Isabella are developmental and not sniffing weekly lineups this year
2) By legally "tanking" and removing Fournette's points from his lineup, he is assuring a higher pick in a loaded 2020 class, that may help him either draft a stud OR trade down and acquire more assets, potentially multiple 2020 or 2021 1sts.

Moral of the story: there are WAY more factors that go into dynasty than what is on the surface. Good dynasty players see and understand this.

hoos89
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Re: Trade vetoed by league. I need the forum to settle it.

Postby hoos89 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:21 pm

badbuddah wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:24 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:51 pm
I think the Jacquizz/Hernandez trade is the only one that actually came particularly close...and the value STILL ended up being on the other side.
That's a little revisionist history don'tcha think? You could then make that argument for any player and hence why it is a strawman. "Well technically Breida for CMC is fair since CMC might die in a car accident next week! Who knows! Maybe he will have CP found on his phone!" I mean c'mon. Unless you KNEW about states evidence with Hernandez, that was a terrible, awful trade, that proves collusion. There is a big difference between people having different valuations on guys, and a straight up JJAW for Hopkins type deal where it's like GTFO. I agree with no vetoes but this was a bad example imo.
Not really what "revisionism" means. I literally said it was the closest thing to a vetoable trade I've seen. I'm not saying it was a good trade; I'm just using it as an example of how much values change. Also Hernandez was not Nuk, or even Gronk. This trade was probably more comparable to like...Kittle for JJAW in terms of value.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Jacobs, Michel, D. Harris, Richard, Gaskin
DJ Moore, Sutton, Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Lazard
OJ Howard, Hockenson, Herndon
IR(2): Love, McKinnon
Taxi(4): MVS
2020 Picks: 1.03, 1.05, 1.11, 1.12, 1.13, 2.03, 2.11, 2.12, 3.05, 3.11, 4.03, 5.03

Team 3: 12 Team PPR, 6 pt Pass TD - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Tannehill
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard, Edmunds
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard, Treadwell
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Reed
2020 Picks: 1.01, 1.04, 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 2.10, 2.11

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up


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