DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

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metalmat
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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby metalmat » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 am

Eh..... I think that was quite a bunch to give up but we shall see how the future rolls out. I've been a Curtis Samuel fan for a while so I have some bias here.
14 Team ppr 2nd place 2017 & 2018. 2020 picks 3,3
QB: Wentz, Carr, Minshew
RB: Kamara, Mixon, David Johnson, Coleman, Ballage, McKinnon, Walton
WR: Hopkins, Julio, ARob, Fitz, J.Brown, Pettis, JJaw, Boykin
TE: Ertz, Knox, Higbee

12 Team 0.5 PPR 3rd Place 2018 2020 picks 2,3,3,4,5
QB: Brees, Stafford, Rosen
RB: Zeke, White, Coleman, Duke, I.Smith, J.Jackson, Mostert, Ozigbo, R.Anderson, McKissic, Walton, D.Washington
WR: A.Cooper, Tyreek, K.Allen, G.Tate, Callaway, Stills, T.Taylor, Renfrow, Winfree, T.Patrick, R.Gage
TE: Engram, Fant, Higbee, Aikins

12 Team SF, TE premium, ppr 2020 picks 1,2,2,3,4,5
QB: Ryan, Winston, Rudolph, Minshew, Manning
RB: Gurley, Gordon, David Johnson, Carson, Duke, Prosise, McKissic
WR: Boyd, Anderson, D.Parker C.Davis, Z.Jones, A.Wilson, D.Parker, Tre'Quan, A.Miller, C.Rogers, R.Gage
TE: Hooper, Doyle, Burton, Jarwin, Shaheen, Higbee

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Blackstar110
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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby Blackstar110 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:07 pm

metalmat wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 am
Eh..... I think that was quite a bunch to give up but we shall see how the future rolls out. I've been a Curtis Samuel fan for a while so I have some bias here.
It definitely was. I just kinda view 21 picks as... idk, certainly not worthless, but so nebulous and vague at this point that I’d usually rather have a known asset and cash in. I was more torn up about the 20 2nd than the 21 1st. Less likely to recoup that.
10 Team RealitySportsOnline League (5-4) Half-PPR - 1QB, 2HB, 2WR, 1 TE, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 DST, 13 Bench **Adding another flex in 2020 and superflex in 2021**
QB: Patrick Mahomes (1yr)
HB: Dalvin Cook (2yrs), Miles Sanders (4yrs), Kareem Hunt (2yrs), Ronald Jones (3yrs), Rashaad Penny (3yrs), Tony Pollard (1yr), Kalen Ballage (1yr), J.D. McKissic (1yr), Mike Davis (1yr)
WR: DeAndre Hopkins (2yrs), DJ Moore (3yrs), John Brown (3yrs), Brandin Cooks (4yrs), Antonio Brown (2yrs), Anthony Miller (3yrs), Andy Isabella (4yrs), Diontae Johnson (1yr)
TE: George Kittle (4yrs), Jack Doyle (1yr)
DST: Streaming

Injured Reserve: None

Upcoming Picks: 2020 2nd

hoos89
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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby hoos89 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:33 pm

With the 1st being 2 years out I feel pretty good about that deal to get your guy.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, B. Hill
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Hockenson, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 3, 3rd x 2, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby Paul717 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:47 pm

I'm late to this thread. I dug up something I researched a while back on the Panthers WRs over the years for this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=186030:

The highest combined yardage total from Cam's top 2 WRs in a given year was 2011. Steve Smith had 1,394 yards and Brandon LaFell had 613 for a combined 2,007 yards.

The highest yardage total for Cam's WR2 was 2016, when Benjamin had 941 and Ted Ginn had 752.

Of course, there are other factors. Greg Olsen has been a huge yardage guy over the years. And, both of these Panthers WRs get some love in the running game.

Still, I agree with this: Best case scenario is 1 of those guys puts up comparable numbers. I don't think either of these guys is Steve Smith, forcing such a heavy split for the WR1.

End above thread.

Now, with Cam sidelined the splits have been interesting. We'll see how this shakes out. If they feel Cam is still the long term solution, and you feel like you got "His #1 WR", then good deal for you and history is on your side here. One could easily argue that Samuel is the best #2 Cam has ever had, and this could end up being a nice duo for years.
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Deshaun Watson, AJ McCarron
RB: Aaron Jones, Peyton Barber, Jalen Richard, Trayveon Williams, DeAndre Washington, Darrel Williams, Dare Ogunbowale
WR: Calvin Ridley, Jamison Crowder, Emmanuel Sanders, A.J. Brown, Geronimo Allison, James Washington, DaeSean Hamilton, Paul Richardson, Riley Ridley, Zach Pascal, Keelan Doss, Antonio Brown :(
TE: T.J. Hockenson
K: Some kicker
Team DST: Lions

Picks:
2020: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd (Shrimp), 3rd (Harlem Hailmakers), 4th (Cookie Monsters), 5th (Smooth Doctors), 5th (Shrimp), 8th

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BigBawseRoss
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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby BigBawseRoss » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:57 pm

why not sell samuel high and aim for someone who plays wr that will have far less guess work?
team 1
12 team, 1 pt for 4 rec, 0.1 per rush
1qb, 3 rb, 4 wr, te, k, 4 idp
Rivers , Rosen, Fitzpatrick, Tyrod
Kamara, McCoy, D FreemanCohen, Bibbs, Clement,J. Allen, ty mont,Ito Smith
K Allen, Hopkins, M Williams, AROB Alshon,KeKe,MVS,T McLaurin
Ebron Graham, Njoku, Irv

team 2
12 team .5ppr
qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, te, flx,flx,
Trubitsky, Dak
Chubb,Mixon, D Henry,Coleman, D Harris, Armstead, Mostert
Hopkins, K Allen, M Evans, C Davis, Watkins, Arob, M Williams, Edleman, J Gordon, Hurd
Ertz, Everett, Fant


team 3
http://www61.myfantasyleague.com/2019/o ... =07&F=0008

team 4
https://www55.myfantasyleague.com/2019/ ... =07&F=0010

team 5
http://www57.myfantasyleague.com/2019/o ... =0008&O=07

team 6
http://www54.myfantasyleague.com/2019/o ... =07&F=0004

team 7
https://www51.myfantasyleague.com/2019/ ... =07&F=0011

hoos89
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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby hoos89 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:55 pm

BigBawseRoss wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:57 pm
why not sell samuel high and aim for someone who plays wr that will have far less guess work?
Why not get your guy? If you are someone who sees DJ Moore's production and age and things that he could be a cornerstone piece for potentially a decade then why not go get him? He's 22 and this is dynasty; I'm not that worried about the current situation.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, B. Hill
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Hockenson, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 3, 3rd x 2, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby Blackstar110 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:44 pm

Paul717 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:47 pm
I'm late to this thread. I dug up something I researched a while back on the Panthers WRs over the years for this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=186030:

The highest combined yardage total from Cam's top 2 WRs in a given year was 2011. Steve Smith had 1,394 yards and Brandon LaFell had 613 for a combined 2,007 yards.

The highest yardage total for Cam's WR2 was 2016, when Benjamin had 941 and Ted Ginn had 752.

Of course, there are other factors. Greg Olsen has been a huge yardage guy over the years. And, both of these Panthers WRs get some love in the running game.

Still, I agree with this: Best case scenario is 1 of those guys puts up comparable numbers. I don't think either of these guys is Steve Smith, forcing such a heavy split for the WR1.

End above thread.

Now, with Cam sidelined the splits have been interesting. We'll see how this shakes out. If they feel Cam is still the long term solution, and you feel like you got "His #1 WR", then good deal for you and history is on your side here. One could easily argue that Samuel is the best #2 Cam has ever had, and this could end up being a nice duo for years.
Great data, thanks. Obviously, the situation is not the same and it's really hard to know what's gonna happen at QB long-term in Carolina, but for me personally, watching AB and Juju last year really broadened my horizons in terms of not letting another good receiver's presence deter you from a guy you believe in. The volume in Pittsburgh was obviously insane, but if you believe that either Cam gets right or they draft a quarterback (preferably one that doesn't bust), I don't think Samuel being good means Moore can't be great, or vice versa if I whiffed big on this one and Samuel turns out to be the guy to own.
10 Team RealitySportsOnline League (5-4) Half-PPR - 1QB, 2HB, 2WR, 1 TE, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 DST, 13 Bench **Adding another flex in 2020 and superflex in 2021**
QB: Patrick Mahomes (1yr)
HB: Dalvin Cook (2yrs), Miles Sanders (4yrs), Kareem Hunt (2yrs), Ronald Jones (3yrs), Rashaad Penny (3yrs), Tony Pollard (1yr), Kalen Ballage (1yr), J.D. McKissic (1yr), Mike Davis (1yr)
WR: DeAndre Hopkins (2yrs), DJ Moore (3yrs), John Brown (3yrs), Brandin Cooks (4yrs), Antonio Brown (2yrs), Anthony Miller (3yrs), Andy Isabella (4yrs), Diontae Johnson (1yr)
TE: George Kittle (4yrs), Jack Doyle (1yr)
DST: Streaming

Injured Reserve: None

Upcoming Picks: 2020 2nd

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Re: DJ Moore vs Curtis Samuel?

Postby Blackstar110 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:48 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:55 pm
BigBawseRoss wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:57 pm
why not sell samuel high and aim for someone who plays wr that will have far less guess work?
Why not get your guy? If you are someone who sees DJ Moore's production and age and things that he could be a cornerstone piece for potentially a decade then why not go get him? He's 22 and this is dynasty; I'm not that worried about the current situation.
This is essentially my answer, yeah

Plus, with my league having contracts, the overlap of "affordable cap hit," "attainable in a trade," and "stud" is VERY slim. I'd need to move some major money to afford established, expensive studs (which I may not even be able to do, with AB currently a maaaaaaaassive hit on my cap space), and the few cheap affordable studs out there, with less guesswork than someone like Moore, are currently dudes like Godwin and Juju, where either I would've had to give up even more or they'd be flat-out untouchable.

Moore is still on his rookie deal and as such I won't need to pay him good money until like 2022-2023. Our upcoming free agency class looks weak too, so yeah, that factored big into why I keyed in on Moore specifically. I could've gone after someone like Ridley or Sutton for a little cheaper, perhaps, but I don't like them quite as much longterm and I don't think the Sutton owner would part with him anyway; one of very few good chips on his team.
10 Team RealitySportsOnline League (5-4) Half-PPR - 1QB, 2HB, 2WR, 1 TE, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 DST, 13 Bench **Adding another flex in 2020 and superflex in 2021**
QB: Patrick Mahomes (1yr)
HB: Dalvin Cook (2yrs), Miles Sanders (4yrs), Kareem Hunt (2yrs), Ronald Jones (3yrs), Rashaad Penny (3yrs), Tony Pollard (1yr), Kalen Ballage (1yr), J.D. McKissic (1yr), Mike Davis (1yr)
WR: DeAndre Hopkins (2yrs), DJ Moore (3yrs), John Brown (3yrs), Brandin Cooks (4yrs), Antonio Brown (2yrs), Anthony Miller (3yrs), Andy Isabella (4yrs), Diontae Johnson (1yr)
TE: George Kittle (4yrs), Jack Doyle (1yr)
DST: Streaming

Injured Reserve: None

Upcoming Picks: 2020 2nd


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