Sanders or Monty

This is the place for team advice - should I make this trade, should I draft that player, etc.

Who is the better back

Sanders
25
63%
Monty
15
38%
 
Total votes: 40

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Lumps
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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby Lumps » Fri May 24, 2019 12:17 pm

ChefHerbie wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:35 am
thomasscheeks wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am
ChefHerbie wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:43 am
I prefer Monty. Sanders has the higher ceiling but also lower floor IMO. Pederson is a RBBC guy, and I'll take Nagy and his utilization of Hunt, and hope Monty gets as many touches.
Pederson has never had a legit three down back, it's hard to call him a RBBC guy just yet. We have to wait and see how he uses Sanders (once Howard is gone)

Chicago has a very talented back by the name of Tarik Cohen. Is Nagy just going to ignore his talent and give all the touches to Montgomery? That's a textbook RBBC situation if I've ever seen one.

It's perfectly fine to prefer Monty to Sanders, but I think it's important to have solid reasoning for it when giving advice
Really?

My reasoning is solid, but great try. Pederson has alluded multiple times that he prefers an RBBC approach. He said multiple times he prefers to use certain backs, for certain plays, in certain situations. It's also not just about "being a three down back". The fantasy issue that Pederson presents, is the way he splits the overall carries, not just the passing down workload. Every year that he has been the Eagles HC, they've had three backs with 68+ carries. When you're spreading that many carries around, on top of passing down work, it's concerning.

As far as your Chicago comments.... Howard finished with the 9th most touches in the NFL at RB last year. Cohen averaged six carries per game last year, really an RBBC situation huh? Cohen is also 5-6 180, you really think Chicago wants him carrying the ball 100 times? Nagy has also said on multiple occasions they intend for Montgomery to be a three down back, with the idea to utilize both he and Cohen on the field to create mismatches. The #3RB on the Bears last year got 11 carries. In his two years as the OC in KC, the #3 rusher had under 24 and 17 carries.

It's perfectly fine to call someone out on their opinion, but I think it's important to know what you're talking about when you do.
To your Pederson commentary.
Speaking in Saturday's post-draft presser, Eagles GM Howie Roseman said the team had been looking for a running back like second-rounder Miles Sanders "for a few years."

The Eagles have been known as a team that likes a wide-ranging committee at running back under coach Doug Pederson, but they have also never invested many resources in the position. 2017 fourth-round gadget player Donnel Pumphrey had been the highest Roseman/Pederson selected a runner. An explosive three-down talent, Sanders could quite easily emerge as the lead dog in the Eagles' 2019 backfield. His presence is bad news for Jordan Howard, Wendell Smallwood, Corey Clement, etc.
I also like how you used total touches for Howard, but then compared that to Cohen's rushing numbers only... ignoring that he caught the most passes on the team for the 2nd most yards. Yes, it's a RBBC.

Might want to take your own advice.
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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby thomasscheeks » Fri May 24, 2019 12:21 pm

Lumps wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:17 pm
ChefHerbie wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:35 am
thomasscheeks wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am


Pederson has never had a legit three down back, it's hard to call him a RBBC guy just yet. We have to wait and see how he uses Sanders (once Howard is gone)

Chicago has a very talented back by the name of Tarik Cohen. Is Nagy just going to ignore his talent and give all the touches to Montgomery? That's a textbook RBBC situation if I've ever seen one.

It's perfectly fine to prefer Monty to Sanders, but I think it's important to have solid reasoning for it when giving advice
Really?

My reasoning is solid, but great try. Pederson has alluded multiple times that he prefers an RBBC approach. He said multiple times he prefers to use certain backs, for certain plays, in certain situations. It's also not just about "being a three down back". The fantasy issue that Pederson presents, is the way he splits the overall carries, not just the passing down workload. Every year that he has been the Eagles HC, they've had three backs with 68+ carries. When you're spreading that many carries around, on top of passing down work, it's concerning.

As far as your Chicago comments.... Howard finished with the 9th most touches in the NFL at RB last year. Cohen averaged six carries per game last year, really an RBBC situation huh? Cohen is also 5-6 180, you really think Chicago wants him carrying the ball 100 times? Nagy has also said on multiple occasions they intend for Montgomery to be a three down back, with the idea to utilize both he and Cohen on the field to create mismatches. The #3RB on the Bears last year got 11 carries. In his two years as the OC in KC, the #3 rusher had under 24 and 17 carries.

It's perfectly fine to call someone out on their opinion, but I think it's important to know what you're talking about when you do.
To your Pederson commentary.
Speaking in Saturday's post-draft presser, Eagles GM Howie Roseman said the team had been looking for a running back like second-rounder Miles Sanders "for a few years."

The Eagles have been known as a team that likes a wide-ranging committee at running back under coach Doug Pederson, but they have also never invested many resources in the position. 2017 fourth-round gadget player Donnel Pumphrey had been the highest Roseman/Pederson selected a runner. An explosive three-down talent, Sanders could quite easily emerge as the lead dog in the Eagles' 2019 backfield. His presence is bad news for Jordan Howard, Wendell Smallwood, Corey Clement, etc.
I also like how you used total touches for Howard, but then compared that to Cohen's rushing numbers only... ignoring that he caught the most passes on the team for the 2nd most yards. Yes, it's a RBBC.

Might want to take your own advice.
Thanks. You saved me the trouble of typing all that out. lmao
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QB: Brady, Wentz
RB: D Freeman, Jacobs, Lindsay, R Freeman, Drake, Barber
WR: Thomas, Julio, Juju, ARob, Dede, A Miller, Cain, P Williams
TE: Kittle, Fant
DT: Atkins, Cox, Tillery
DL: Bosa, Ingram, Houston, Josh Allen
LB: Kwon, Watt, Cunningham, White
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D/ST: Cowgirls

12 Man Dynasty, 1 ppr, 1 QB, 1-3 RB, 1-3 WR, 1 TE
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RB: Freeman, Dion, Burkhead, Richard
WR: Keenan, Golladay, Cooper, Kirk, Alshon, Z Jones, T Taylor, Hogan, Hamilton, Quinn
TE: Kelce, Gesicki
D/ST: Texans
1.11
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12 Man Dynasty, 1 ppr, 1 QB, 1-3 RB, 1-3 WR, 1 TE
QB: Matty Ice, Trubisky
RB: Hunt, Crowell, Ekeler, J Jackson
WR: Nuk, Evans, Davis, M Williams, DJ Moore, Dede, Goodwin, Z Jones, T Taylor
TE: Herndon, Rudolph
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1.01
2020 1st

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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby M-Dub » Fri May 24, 2019 12:58 pm

I think opportunity is extremely important at the RB position, due to their shorter and earlier career arcs and the replaceable nature of the position. Most RBs score the majority of their fantasy points during their rookie contracts, so it’s not really feasible to prioritize (perceived) talent if a rookie RB lands in an undesirable landing spot. That said, I don’t see Philly as being that much worse of a landing spot than Chicago, if at all, and I think Sanders is a far more talented back than Montgomery, so for me, it’s Sanders and it’s not close.
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8 starters: 1 QB, 7 RB/WR/TE (min 1/max 4 at each position)


QB: Wilson
RB: Mixon, Guice, Lindsay, Miller, Foreman, J. Hill, Dexter Williams, Gaskin, Ty Johnson
WR: Keenan, Woods, Golladay, Godwin, Sammy, Funch, Enunwa, Watson, Quinn, Dulin
TE: Ertz, Shaheen, Everett, Harris
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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby vbbish » Fri May 24, 2019 1:13 pm

I'll pose another question to the group....

Without the ability to take on multiple players due to roster restrictions, who is a current roster player that you would target with the 1.03 pick in a straight trade??

Would it make more sense for me to go this route and have them contribute immediately??
6th Year Full Dynasty PPR (1 pt. per Rec.) 1QB,2RB,2WR,1TE,1TE/RB/WR 12 team league
QB: C. Newton, L. Jackson, Darnold
RB: Mixon, M. Gordon, R. Penny, Ingram, T. Cohen
WR: Hopkins, AJG, Godwin, Alshon, Shephard
TE: Ertz, E. Engram, Gronk
DEF: BEARS
Pick 1.03, 1.06

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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby ChefHerbie » Fri May 24, 2019 1:33 pm

Lumps wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:17 pm
ChefHerbie wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:35 am
thomasscheeks wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am


Pederson has never had a legit three down back, it's hard to call him a RBBC guy just yet. We have to wait and see how he uses Sanders (once Howard is gone)

Chicago has a very talented back by the name of Tarik Cohen. Is Nagy just going to ignore his talent and give all the touches to Montgomery? That's a textbook RBBC situation if I've ever seen one.

It's perfectly fine to prefer Monty to Sanders, but I think it's important to have solid reasoning for it when giving advice
Really?

My reasoning is solid, but great try. Pederson has alluded multiple times that he prefers an RBBC approach. He said multiple times he prefers to use certain backs, for certain plays, in certain situations. It's also not just about "being a three down back". The fantasy issue that Pederson presents, is the way he splits the overall carries, not just the passing down workload. Every year that he has been the Eagles HC, they've had three backs with 68+ carries. When you're spreading that many carries around, on top of passing down work, it's concerning.

As far as your Chicago comments.... Howard finished with the 9th most touches in the NFL at RB last year. Cohen averaged six carries per game last year, really an RBBC situation huh? Cohen is also 5-6 180, you really think Chicago wants him carrying the ball 100 times? Nagy has also said on multiple occasions they intend for Montgomery to be a three down back, with the idea to utilize both he and Cohen on the field to create mismatches. The #3RB on the Bears last year got 11 carries. In his two years as the OC in KC, the #3 rusher had under 24 and 17 carries.

It's perfectly fine to call someone out on their opinion, but I think it's important to know what you're talking about when you do.
To your Pederson commentary.
Speaking in Saturday's post-draft presser, Eagles GM Howie Roseman said the team had been looking for a running back like second-rounder Miles Sanders "for a few years."

The Eagles have been known as a team that likes a wide-ranging committee at running back under coach Doug Pederson, but they have also never invested many resources in the position. 2017 fourth-round gadget player Donnel Pumphrey had been the highest Roseman/Pederson selected a runner. An explosive three-down talent, Sanders could quite easily emerge as the lead dog in the Eagles' 2019 backfield. His presence is bad news for Jordan Howard, Wendell Smallwood, Corey Clement, etc.
I also like how you used total touches for Howard, but then compared that to Cohen's rushing numbers only... ignoring that he caught the most passes on the team for the 2nd most yards. Yes, it's a RBBC.

Might want to take your own advice.
Sign me up then for a back that is T10 in the league in touches and considered a "committee"? The reason I used touches for Howard, is because Montgomery is expected to absorb all of those touches, and like more receptions that Howard had. Cohen on the other hand will see his carries go down. How many of Cohen's catches were when he lined up at WR?

Your GM press conf. quote also does nothing to disprove that Pederson likes an RBBC and alludes to him preferring it. Because the GM makes a typical off-season comment and some writer hypothesizes that this now means they wont go RBBC does nothing to move the needle.
Team 1 - 10 Team PPR - 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2FLEX

QBs: Wentz, Big Ben, Darnold, Murray, Bridgewater
RBs: Chubb, Mack, L. Miller, Monty, Foreman, Henderson, Ballage, Armstead, R. Anderson
WRs: OBJ, K. Allen, Cooks, ARob, Z. Jones, Chark, K. White, D. Robinson, McLaurin
TE: Howard, Njoku, Reed

Picks:
2020: 1-4
2021: 1-4
2022: 1-4

Team 2 - 10 Team PPR SF - QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2FLEX, 1SF

QBs: Mayfield, Watson, Jimmy GQ, Grier
RBs: Barkley, Sony, Lewis, D. Henderson, D. Thompson, Love
WRs: Thomas, AB, Kupp, Golladay, ARob, C. Ridley, Alshon, MVS, Chark, Gordon, McLaurin, Quinn
TE: Burton, Walker

Picks:
2020: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3
2021: 1, 3
2022: 1-3

Team 3 - 10 Team PPR - QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 3FLEX

QBs: Watson, Wilson, Mayfield, Murray, Grier
RBs: Ballage, Henderson, Hunt, Hill, Armstead, Anderson, Williams, Thompson, Crockett
WRs: Nuk, Evans, Cooper, Cooks, Samuel, Butler, Chark, Quinn, Robinson, D. Johnson, Morgan Jr.
TEs: Fant, Dissly, Goedert

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2020: 1-4
2021: 1-4
2022: 1-4

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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby PTW32 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:00 pm

I like Sanders better as a talent and I also like his situation better long term.

This a list of the running backs listed as competition in this thread:

Howard
Clement
Smallwood
Sproles

Davis
Cohen

When all is said and done i believe Sanders has the skill set to eat in all of the Philly RB shares if not make them completely expendable.

I do NOT see any way Cohen loses his share to Monty
12 Team PPR
QB, 2RB, 3WR, 2TE, 2Flex

QB: Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Jameis Winston
RB: Dalvin Cook, Phillip Lindsay, Miles Sanders, TJ Yeldon, Darwin Thompson, Alexander Mattison, Miles Boykin, Bryce Love, Rodney Anderson
WR: Odell Beckham Jr., Brandin Cooks, Chris Godwin, Kenny Golladay, Christian Kirk, Keke Coutee, Larry Fitzgerald, Equanimeous St. Brown, Josh Doctson, Antonio Callaway, Miles Boykin
TE: George Kittle, O.J. Howard, TJ Hockenson

2020 Picks: 2, 2, 3


10 Team PPR
QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 3Flex, 1K
QB: Baker Mayfeild, Sam Darnold
RB: Derrius Guice, Tarik Cohen, Kareem Hunt, Justin Jackson, Latavius Murray, Adrian Peterson
WR: Allen Robinson, Sterling Shepard, Christian Kirk, Dante Pettis, DK Metcalf, Deon Cain, TreQuan Smith, Diontae Johnson, Miles Boykin, Riley Ridley, Jalen Hurd, Jamison Crowder, Andy Isabella
TE: David Njoku, Mark Andrews, Delanie Walker

2020 Picks: 1,1, 2, 2, 3, 4

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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby honcho55 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:36 pm

ChefHerbie wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 1:33 pm
Lumps wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:17 pm
ChefHerbie wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:35 am


Really?

My reasoning is solid, but great try. Pederson has alluded multiple times that he prefers an RBBC approach. He said multiple times he prefers to use certain backs, for certain plays, in certain situations. It's also not just about "being a three down back". The fantasy issue that Pederson presents, is the way he splits the overall carries, not just the passing down workload. Every year that he has been the Eagles HC, they've had three backs with 68+ carries. When you're spreading that many carries around, on top of passing down work, it's concerning.

As far as your Chicago comments.... Howard finished with the 9th most touches in the NFL at RB last year. Cohen averaged six carries per game last year, really an RBBC situation huh? Cohen is also 5-6 180, you really think Chicago wants him carrying the ball 100 times? Nagy has also said on multiple occasions they intend for Montgomery to be a three down back, with the idea to utilize both he and Cohen on the field to create mismatches. The #3RB on the Bears last year got 11 carries. In his two years as the OC in KC, the #3 rusher had under 24 and 17 carries.

It's perfectly fine to call someone out on their opinion, but I think it's important to know what you're talking about when you do.
To your Pederson commentary.
Speaking in Saturday's post-draft presser, Eagles GM Howie Roseman said the team had been looking for a running back like second-rounder Miles Sanders "for a few years."

The Eagles have been known as a team that likes a wide-ranging committee at running back under coach Doug Pederson, but they have also never invested many resources in the position. 2017 fourth-round gadget player Donnel Pumphrey had been the highest Roseman/Pederson selected a runner. An explosive three-down talent, Sanders could quite easily emerge as the lead dog in the Eagles' 2019 backfield. His presence is bad news for Jordan Howard, Wendell Smallwood, Corey Clement, etc.
I also like how you used total touches for Howard, but then compared that to Cohen's rushing numbers only... ignoring that he caught the most passes on the team for the 2nd most yards. Yes, it's a RBBC.

Might want to take your own advice.
Sign me up then for a back that is T10 in the league in touches and considered a "committee"? The reason I used touches for Howard, is because Montgomery is expected to absorb all of those touches, and like more receptions that Howard had. Cohen on the other hand will see his carries go down. How many of Cohen's catches were when he lined up at WR?

Your GM press conf. quote also does nothing to disprove that Pederson likes an RBBC and alludes to him preferring it. Because the GM makes a typical off-season comment and some writer hypothesizes that this now means they wont go RBBC does nothing to move the needle.
I think Montgomery is going to have every opportunity to prove you right, but I don’t think it’s remotely set in stone.

IF you think his talent level is such that he can indeed come in and command that level of carries, AND eat into cohens touches (when you say cohens carries will go down, and Montgomery will absorb all of Howard’s carries AND get more catches, this almost certainly means cohens usage goes down) then yeah, it’s an easy call to love Montgomery.

Alternatively, cohens touches remain the same or even increase, and Davis sees significant carries. Bottom line is, you still have to bet on Montgomery’s talent, even if you think the situation is great. If you do, that’s fine. I don’t dislike Monty. I just like sanders better.

As to sanders situation: I get RBBC is a dirty word in fantasy, but I think people forget: how many RBs *arent* in a RBBC? And how many are in a committee and still super valuable in fantasy?
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14 team
start 1QB, 1RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2WRT. Roster 15, 2 IR. keep 10 every year (must keep one each pos) *transitioning to more keepers/full dyno over a couple years

QB: Wilson, Goff, Carr, Stidham
RB: E Elliot, D Henry, M Ingram, R Armstead, J Williams, D Ozigbo, M Brown
WR. O. Beckham, J Smith-Schuster, A Cooper, J Arcega-Whiteside, P Dorsett
TE. H. Henry, V McDonald

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(Project 2 top 3, one mid-late, one late 1st)
2021: two 1sts, four 2s, two each 3,4
2022: three 1sts, 3rd, 5th

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Re: Sanders or Monty

Postby MoneyPumpkins » Sat May 25, 2019 6:25 am

Even though the situation is less clear in Philly, I clearly like Sanders over Monty. Not this year but definitely in years 2+.
10 Team. 29 man roster, 0.5 PPR: 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Def, 1 K
QB: J. Winston, J. Garoppolo, P Rivers, J Rosen
RB: S. Barkley, D. Cook, M. Breida, A. Jones, J. Kelly
WR: C. Davis, M. Williams, J. Brown, J. Gordon, C. Sutton, A. Miller, DJ Moore, J. Crowder, K. Coutee, M. Gallup, G. Allison, D. Moore, L. Treadwell, C. Meredith, C. Samuel
TE: G. Kittle, D. Njoku, D. Goedert
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