Making Offers Public on Trade Bait

[makemeasandwich]

Even if you disagree, getting any 1st for Cook is not a "bad offer." And this is getting exhausting because you don't like the responses you're getting and thought more people would be on your side and tell you what you did was ok.

What did I do that was unethical if I told the people I was posting their offers on trade bait before I posted them?

First, your initial post doesn't say anything about you letting the other owners know that you're going to post their offers on the trade bait. Maybe you mentioned that later, but I didn't read every single response. And even if that's true, I'm going to assume that they weren't ok with it when you told them you were going to do that, or else they wouldn't have been outraged when you actually did. If you told them and they told you not to, then that's unethical. If you told them and they said that's fine and later became outraged, then that's on them.

Yea it was mentioned a few times, but this thread seems to have struck a raw nerve and has gotten a bit wordy, so I don't blame you for skimming. Agree with both scenarios. Ethics and scope aside, I'm interested in your evaluation of Cook in his new landing spot. The Goedert offer is essentially Goedert straight up for Cooks, which I'm not inclined to do, because how long will we be waiting for Goedert to be a weekly starter? The 2nd offer involving Hyde + '21 1st could be us disagreeing on Hyde's value and not acknowledging the lost opportunity cost of a 1st 2 years out?

[Goddard]

Yea it was mentioned a few times, but this thread seems to have struck a raw nerve and has gotten a bit wordy, so I don't blame you for skimming. Agree with both scenarios. Ethics and scope aside, I'm interested in your evaluation of Cook in his new landing spot. The Goedert offer is essentially Goedert straight up for Cooks, which I'm not inclined to do, because how long will we be waiting for Goedert to be a weekly starter? The 2nd offer involving Hyde + '21 1st could be us disagreeing on Hyde's value and not acknowledging the lost opportunity cost of a 1st 2 years out?

I probably would have passed on the Goedert offer as well, but I don't think it was necessarily that bad. His situation isn't great, but he showed he can be a good TE once he gets an opportunity. As for Hyde, he's in a decent situation where he has a chance to get plenty of run if Fournette misses time again, but I don't necessarily value him highly. It's more about my valuation of Cook being 32 years old and not being worth much more than a 1st, if at all. If I needed Cook to compete, then passing on a 1st is fine, but still a completely fair offer. If I'm not starting Cook or relying on him, then I'd move him for any 1st fairly easily.

[makemeasandwich]

Yea it was mentioned a few times, but this thread seems to have struck a raw nerve and has gotten a bit wordy, so I don't blame you for skimming. Agree with both scenarios. Ethics and scope aside, I'm interested in your evaluation of Cook in his new landing spot. The Goedert offer is essentially Goedert straight up for Cooks, which I'm not inclined to do, because how long will we be waiting for Goedert to be a weekly starter? The 2nd offer involving Hyde + '21 1st could be us disagreeing on Hyde's value and not acknowledging the lost opportunity cost of a 1st 2 years out?

I probably would have passed on the Goedert offer as well, but I don't think it was necessarily that bad. His situation isn't great, but he showed he can be a good TE once he gets an opportunity. As for Hyde, he's in a decent situation where he has a chance to get plenty of run if Fournette misses time again, but I don't necessarily value him highly. It's more about my valuation of Cook being 32 years old and not being worth much more than a 1st, if at all. If I needed Cook to compete, then passing on a 1st is fine, but still a completely fair offer. If I'm not starting Cook or relying on him, then I'd move him for any 1st fairly easily.

I think you meant if Damien Williams misses time, as Hyde is in KC now. Something has to be said for a 1st that's 2 years out, surely its value has to be docked substantially due to lost opportunity cost.

[smallxl]

You should either be accepting or declining. You shouldn't be saying, sure I'll do this if I can't find anything better.

Now its fine to hold off deciding on a deal and going out and approaching others, but I dont think you should be saying what you are getting from them specifically.

Also you may find this backfiring, what if someone offers a better player for the deal that you are asking people to beat.

Great post. Agree with everything here.

[M-Dub]

Man, there’s a lot going on in this thread. Haha. As far as the disagreement with Goddard over Cook’s value, I suspect it’s because you failed to mention that this is a start 2 TE league. Granted, that info is in your sig, but it’s not a very common setting and probably worth noting at some point when discussing a TE’s value.

As far as the “lost opportunity cost” of a 2021 1st, I think that should really only be a concern if you have serious concerns about your league folding in the next couple years. Yes, that pick won’t score you any points for two years, but it’s also a premium asset that won’t occupy a roster spot for the same amount of time. It also has insulated value, in that it will only continue to appreciate over the next two years. So I don’t really buy into the theory that all future picks should be discounted just because they’re a year or two out.

[Favrezilla]

Seems disingenuous to post offers to drum up value or try and create a market for yourself. I guess accept the trade counter or decline it..?

If I saw my trade offer posted I would publicly state I had since withdrawn my offer and that I was looking for X or Y to the entire league.

I dunno, not a fan of trashing trades during the season or having people post offers.

[whodunnit]

I really don't think it's a big deal (obviously in the minority here) but some of you are way too sensitive about this.

id rip you a new one if you were in my league. i dont like when someone goes to the group chat to mock an offer ive made even without getting into specifics. theres no reason to do this other than the try to create a bidding war where if thats what you want just say "cook will be sold at midnight offer up"

I don't do it in group chat, just in my trade bait and I'm not mocking their offer.
[/quote]

no you pretty much are... you're saying that these offers weren't good enough for you.
[/quote]


I don't see how it's mocking to say "this is on the table, if you're interested, send me a better offer.

I'd be irate if my offers were made public. Negotiations are private. It also makes you look petty and untrustworthy.

I completely disagree with looking untrustworthy and petty. It doesn't seem he's necessarily doing it out of spite, and he only posts it if the person agrees to it being posted publicly. In the real world if you're selling something, say a used car, and you have it listed for sale, someone offers you $5k, but you tell them, well I have an offer already for $6k, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not wrong to try to drive up the price of your own sale.

Play stupid games; win stupid prizes. ( in this case lose prizes)

I'd blacklist you from any trades if I were in a league with you if that happened to one of my offers. A) I'd never consent to allowing you to post it in the first place so if you did, the trust is out the window. B) Anyone that allows that is questionable as an owner to allow you to post an offer hoping someone ups your offer. If I made the offer, that's what I want to pay. Idgaf that Jimmy from team 3's offer was better than mine.

I always send my best offer first, but sometimes I can even add a little to it. I don't understand how it makes them questionable as an owner either, as other people have mentioned, it could actually work in your favor with someone offering you a better player for the package you're offering. I personally question people who 'blacklist' people from future trades because of a few minor incidents like this.


**Edit** Not saying the ones I quoted are necessarily sensitive, just a few rebuttals I wanted to mention.

[cazzie33]

" In my opinion, mocking would be going into group chat, posting an offer w/o the other persons consent and publicly ridiculing them for offering me such a steaming pile of sh*t, which I'm not doing. "

I have done it as a hypothetical … asking for help on which steaming pile should I accept not stating it is for this particular league. Only to have the other GMs rip guys who make such asinine lowball offers. Naturally the offending party got all bent out of shape about me going public. To which I said I never said it was for this league or named him as the guilty party.


Now while I admit it achieved my goal of calling him out I don't do that as general rule. He tried selling me on his "validity" of his offer by some trade evaluator tool. Had it been reasonably close I would've just passed. I was new to the lg so I guess he figured I was a noob to the game.


Everyone I've ever played against has discussed in private what other guys have offered for their players to see if I would try to top them. Personally I know they are doing it in private so it doesn't bother me if they go public with my offer. As a previous poster has stated a few times another owner liked my offer and gave me a better deal when the other GM threw my offer out to shame me. That's why I don't waste time with ridiculous opening offers to " get the ball rollin' " on trade discussions. Not saying that they are all great offers but they at least make a modicum of sense. No biggie if they get rejected or ridiculed. We just differ on the value of our players like most GMs . Other times I will put up a poll on the trade here to see if I'm way off or the other guy is way off base.


But I'm not a fan of creating an auction and listing the exact trade in public. I would expect quite often the trade offer would get rescinded . Truthfully I think it is kinda douchey move to hang their offer out on the line. If you want to do it to mine I don't mind. Can't believe how many times teams accept pitiful offers without checking around. I always advise guys to send out feelers before accepting the first offer, especially when it's not a knock your socks off offer. But remember while you're shopping around so probably is the other guy.

[sloth8u]

I had an owner approach me (as commish) asking if he could do this. I told him id feel the rest of the league out for him and get back to him. The concensus was that as long as he ended up accepting someones offer.....go ahead and post them.

He ended up selling arod for a mid 2nd and hasnt posted offers on his bait since. If your willing to sell a guy for the best offer received (in your opinion), then i think its ok. In general though, i think what your doing is trying to create a bidding war....which can also be done privately and therefore not offensive...and especially so if you decide that your not going to move the guy.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

What did I do that was unethical if I told the people I was posting their offers on trade bait before I posted them?

Calm down Michael Scott...if you really don't get it, I'll ELI5 it for you:

If you told me that you'd give me 5 pringles for my shiny new Batman pencil that you really want, you'd want me to accept that deal right? Now imagine if I told Billy and Mary and the whole class that you offered me 5 pringles for my pencil. Mike then offers me 8 oreos, and Jane offers me her unicorn notebook, and now I'm not even talking to you anymore. Wouldn't you be annoyed?

[makemeasandwich]

What did I do that was unethical if I told the people I was posting their offers on trade bait before I posted them?

Calm down Michael Scott...if you really don't get it, I'll ELI5 it for you:

If you told me that you'd give me 5 pringles for my shiny new Batman pencil that you really want, you'd want me to accept that deal right? Now imagine if I told Billy and Mary and the whole class that you offered me 5 pringles for my pencil. Mike then offers me 8 oreos, and Jane offers me her unicorn notebook, and now I'm not even talking to you anymore. Wouldn't you be annoyed?

I believe this horse has been flogged to death already. Nice Office reference tho

[DonBrazi]

The one thing that I think hasn't been mentioned, specifically, is the idea of a vague statement about your current offers. Instead of saying you have an offer of Goedert, Humphries, 3.05, you could say something like 'good TE prospect + mid-3rd'... That way, you can accomplish your goal of creating a bidding war, while not calling any specific owner out.

And so that I don't seem too reasonable, I'd add one thing (to keep beating the dead horse). Just because you tell someone that you're going to do something, doesn't absolve you of any moral responsibility for doing that thing. I can imagine a murder suspect telling the police that she TOLD the guy she was going to shoot, and the guy didn't say 'don't shoot me, please. I'd like to live', so she's not a murderer..