Diggs Trade

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Oddball456
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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby Oddball456 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:47 am

WhatWouldDitkaDo wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:44 am
Oddball456 wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:31 am
WhatWouldDitkaDo wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:16 am
Cooks complained while in NO because he wanted to be feature. He was probably quieter in NE because 1. he had a chance to win a title and 2. he knew it wouldn't be for more than a couple of seasons based on his contract. McVay traded for him and locked him up long term. You don't think Cooks is going to get featured in an efficient offense?
Not unless Gurley gets hurt, Gurley is the only guy featured on the Rams. Beyond him, they spread the ball around and don't pass as often as the previous teams Cooks has been on.

2014 Saints = 659 attempts (2nd in the NFL) 4764 (3rd)
2015 Saints = 667 attempts (2nd in the NFL) 4970 (1st)
2016 Saints = 674 attempts (2nd in the NFL) 5074 yards (1st)
2017 Pats = 587 attempts (7th in the NFL) 4418 Yards (2nd)
2017 Rams = 518 attempts (24th in the NFL) 3831 (10th)

I think it is safe to assume that Brees and Brady are both better (more accurate) QBs than Geoff is. So Cooks is moving from some of the very best pass Offenses in the past 4 years to an offense which is slightly below average in attempts and slightly above ave in yards last year, with not as good a passer.

Note that none of this is a knock on Cooks as a player but the Rams are just not a team that is going to need or want to be pass happy, especially into 1 WR.
Fair points, but here are my thoughts:

1. Goff is still developing, and they will probably do more with passing concepts this year than they did last year. I don't know that he'll become elite, but Goff should show improvement this year. If not, then I'm ready to adjust my projections for Cooks. And of course the offense will run through Gurley, but Cooks should be very involved regardless.

2. If you're going to make this argument for Cooks, then the same holds true for Diggs. MIN's defense is on the same level as LAR's, so why should Diggs be projected to get that many more targets in an offense that shouldn't need to throw much either?
Last year before Cook got hurt (weeks 1-4) Diggs averaged 21.4 points a game over that span. The Viking have Diggs and Thielen taking almost all of the WR targets/yards. Gurley is better than Cook.

Basically: The viking have 2 WR splitting the WR targets/yards (the WR3 on MIN had 35 targets for 200 yards, Rams WR3 had 70 targets for 593 yards). The RB and TE output in the passing game seems like a wash between the 2 teams (I didn't add it all up but looks close). So Diggs / Thielen have a larger % of roughly the same sized pie compared to Kupp, Woods, and now Cooks. Diggs last year, even with missing games/playing hurt in a couple more games was only 20 yards behind the Rams WR1.

2018 will be a new year: Cooks on a new team and Diggs has a new QB. Most people would say the Cooks is not moving into as stat friendly situation in LA as he has had throughout his career (we can all agree on that I would think) while Diggs biggest issue has always been his health. Dynasty ranking have Diggs firmly out ahead of Cooks. If people think that Cooks > Diggs that is fine, that aren't that far apart, but I do think that we have likely seen Cooks best years for at least while while Diggs best years are clearly ahead of him

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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby Mkh3225 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:53 am

I'll take Diggs here, never been a huge Cooks fan though
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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby Trevormortis » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:08 pm

Cooks for me slightly. Both have their concerns and both have the ability for big plays. It's also tough to predict how Cooks will be used on a new team and how Cousins will target his WR's.
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RB - Henry, Ekeler, Kamara, D. Pierce, AJ Dillon, J. McLaughlin, Gainwell
WR - J. Jefferson, Diggs, AJ Brown, T. Higgins, M. Thomas, Cooks, Bateman, R. Moore, C. Tillman, J. Hyatt, D. Parker
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WR - London, J. Downs, R. Rice, Burks, J. Jeudy, A. Pierce, C. Tillman, R. Bell, D. Parker, D. Slayton, Cooks
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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby hudini33 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:47 pm

I think tonight was pretty telling. Cousins and Diggs have a slightly better rapport than Cousins to Theilen. The difference is the trust/targets. Diggs got a ton of targets, and that makes me think Cousins trusts him. Only time will tell though. This trade is still the Cooks side for me.

Side note: cousins rapport with MegaQuon (terrible nickname) looks promising.
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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:57 pm

Oddball456 wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:47 am
WhatWouldDitkaDo wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:44 am
Oddball456 wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:31 am

Not unless Gurley gets hurt, Gurley is the only guy featured on the Rams. Beyond him, they spread the ball around and don't pass as often as the previous teams Cooks has been on.

2014 Saints = 659 attempts (2nd in the NFL) 4764 (3rd)
2015 Saints = 667 attempts (2nd in the NFL) 4970 (1st)
2016 Saints = 674 attempts (2nd in the NFL) 5074 yards (1st)
2017 Pats = 587 attempts (7th in the NFL) 4418 Yards (2nd)
2017 Rams = 518 attempts (24th in the NFL) 3831 (10th)

I think it is safe to assume that Brees and Brady are both better (more accurate) QBs than Geoff is. So Cooks is moving from some of the very best pass Offenses in the past 4 years to an offense which is slightly below average in attempts and slightly above ave in yards last year, with not as good a passer.

Note that none of this is a knock on Cooks as a player but the Rams are just not a team that is going to need or want to be pass happy, especially into 1 WR.
Fair points, but here are my thoughts:

1. Goff is still developing, and they will probably do more with passing concepts this year than they did last year. I don't know that he'll become elite, but Goff should show improvement this year. If not, then I'm ready to adjust my projections for Cooks. And of course the offense will run through Gurley, but Cooks should be very involved regardless.

2. If you're going to make this argument for Cooks, then the same holds true for Diggs. MIN's defense is on the same level as LAR's, so why should Diggs be projected to get that many more targets in an offense that shouldn't need to throw much either?
Last year before Cook got hurt (weeks 1-4) Diggs averaged 21.4 points a game over that span. The Viking have Diggs and Thielen taking almost all of the WR targets/yards. Gurley is better than Cook.

Basically: The viking have 2 WR splitting the WR targets/yards (the WR3 on MIN had 35 targets for 200 yards, Rams WR3 had 70 targets for 593 yards). The RB and TE output in the passing game seems like a wash between the 2 teams (I didn't add it all up but looks close). So Diggs / Thielen have a larger % of roughly the same sized pie compared to Kupp, Woods, and now Cooks. Diggs last year, even with missing games/playing hurt in a couple more games was only 20 yards behind the Rams WR1.

2018 will be a new year: Cooks on a new team and Diggs has a new QB. Most people would say the Cooks is not moving into as stat friendly situation in LA as he has had throughout his career (we can all agree on that I would think) while Daiggs biggest issue has always been his health. Dynasty ranking have Diggs firmly out ahead of Cooks. If people think that Cooks > Diggs that is fine, that aren't that far apart, but I do think that we have likely seen Cooks best years for at least while while Diggs best years are clearly ahead of him
Cooks is just turning 25, I don't see how you can say that. This is typically the prime years he's entering. You are making assumptions based on your bias. "We have likely seen Cooks best years for at least while while Diggs best years are clearly ahead of him ". That is a narrative you have weaved and anyone can take past stats and project future stats to prove a point. Cooks is actually a few months younger than Diggs, is a better athlete, and produced more at a collegiate level and in the NFL to this point, so any narrative you can weave about Diggs getting better and Cooks getting worse is purely speculative. I happen to like both a lot, but this debate is not a given on who produces more from this point out.

Also, not sure what Dynasty ranking you use, but DLF has Diggs at 25, and Cooks at 28, I wouldn't call that being Diggs "firly out ahead of Cooks". It's basically interchangeable. I think they are both good, but people are downplaying Cooks ultimate ceiling and giving Diggs a supposed higher ceiling than Cooks, while he hasn't even hit Cooks floor while actually being older, which is silly to me. I like Diggs, but I don't think he deserves as much credit vs Cooks as he is receiving.
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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby hudini33 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:28 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:57 pm
Oddball456 wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:47 am
WhatWouldDitkaDo wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:44 am
Fair points, but here are my thoughts:

1. Goff is still developing, and they will probably do more with passing concepts this year than they did last year. I don't know that he'll become elite, but Goff should show improvement this year. If not, then I'm ready to adjust my projections for Cooks. And of course the offense will run through Gurley, but Cooks should be very involved regardless.

2. If you're going to make this argument for Cooks, then the same holds true for Diggs. MIN's defense is on the same level as LAR's, so why should Diggs be projected to get that many more targets in an offense that shouldn't need to throw much either?
Last year before Cook got hurt (weeks 1-4) Diggs averaged 21.4 points a game over that span. The Viking have Diggs and Thielen taking almost all of the WR targets/yards. Gurley is better than Cook.

Basically: The viking have 2 WR splitting the WR targets/yards (the WR3 on MIN had 35 targets for 200 yards, Rams WR3 had 70 targets for 593 yards). The RB and TE output in the passing game seems like a wash between the 2 teams (I didn't add it all up but looks close). So Diggs / Thielen have a larger % of roughly the same sized pie compared to Kupp, Woods, and now Cooks. Diggs last year, even with missing games/playing hurt in a couple more games was only 20 yards behind the Rams WR1.

2018 will be a new year: Cooks on a new team and Diggs has a new QB. Most people would say the Cooks is not moving into as stat friendly situation in LA as he has had throughout his career (we can all agree on that I would think) while Daiggs biggest issue has always been his health. Dynasty ranking have Diggs firmly out ahead of Cooks. If people think that Cooks > Diggs that is fine, that aren't that far apart, but I do think that we have likely seen Cooks best years for at least while while Diggs best years are clearly ahead of him
Cooks is just turning 25, I don't see how you can say that. This is typically the prime years he's entering. You are making assumptions based on your bias. "We have likely seen Cooks best years for at least while while Diggs best years are clearly ahead of him ". That is a narrative you have weaved and anyone can take past stats and project future stats to prove a point. Cooks is actually a few months younger than Diggs, is a better athlete, and produced more at a collegiate level and in the NFL to this point, so any narrative you can weave about Diggs getting better and Cooks getting worse is purely speculative. I happen to like both a lot, but this debate is not a given on who produces more from this point out.

Also, not sure what Dynasty ranking you use, but DLF has Diggs at 25, and Cooks at 28, I wouldn't call that being Diggs "firly out ahead of Cooks". It's basically interchangeable. I think they are both good, but people are downplaying Cooks ultimate ceiling and giving Diggs a supposed higher ceiling than Cooks, while he hasn't even hit Cooks floor while actually being older, which is silly to me. I like Diggs, but I don't think he deserves as much credit vs Cooks as he is receiving.
I don't agree that we've seen the absolute ceiling of cooks, but I think it's pretty much based off of QB play? I don't know
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QB: Hurts, Z Wilson, Minshew, Heinecke
RB: Zeke, Ekeler, Patterson, J Robinson, Pollard, Jamal Williams
WR: Diggs, Sutton, Metcalf, McLaurin, Mooney, V. Jefferson, M. Jones
TE: Andrews, Knox, Freiermuth
D/ST: Packers, Cardinals

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WR: DJ Moore, Sutton, Waddle, Mooney, N. Collins, V. Jefferson, B. Edwards, D. Brown, Reynolds, Duvernay, Agholor, Mims, G Wilson, Pickens, Burks
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Re: Diggs Trade

Postby cvbuc » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:44 pm

There is soooooooo much misinformation on Cooks being spewed all over this thread. I thought it was a joke at first. Both receivers are great assets.

One has outscored the other EVERY year of their careers.
That's a FACT.

i love the conjecture that the one who has done it EVERY season will never do it again, while the one who has not is deemed the one with more consistency and upside.

It's okay to like Diggs more than Cooks. Nothing wrong about it.
Just don't lie to yourselves to prove you're right.

Head to head, I like Diggs by the smallest amount more going forward.
The addition of Hooper shifts the pendulum over to Cooks for me.
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