Are these really that off or am I off?

[djeternal2]

A couple weeks ago I decided to try and open negotiations for Mixon. I sent over an opening offer of my 18 first for Mixon. Was it light? Most likely as most owners prolly took him in the top half of the first this year. But to me I felt it was a solid opener to start (I could be completely wrong on this). Less than 12h after I offered that the owner countered with Mixon/Tate for Nuk which I instantly declined. I feel a 25 yr old that has shown to be a wr1 despite his QB except the Osweiler year is worth more than a RB that really hasn't flashed much so far and a 29 yr old WR3/4 (no I've never been a big tate fan). 3 days later same owner still trying to get nuk offers mixon & watkins. Now I like watkins as a buy low but selling nuk to acquire him isn't really buying low so I declined without hesitation. 4 days later trade goes through (pushed through by myself as co-owners can push trades through):

Tm1: baldwin, engram, mixon
Tm2: cooks, fuller, thielen

It annoys me that the owner wasn't willing to explore other options when it came to dealing with me but with other he was. It really sorta solidifies my belief of building this team through draft & FA.


So am I really that far off the reservation on this?

[hudini33]

4 days later trade goes through (pushed through by myself as co-owners can push trades through):

Tm1: baldwin, engram, mixon
Tm2: cooks, fuller, thielen

So the top line I quoted confused me. What do you mean you pushed it through?

1) I think offering a first for Mixon is low. The guy probably spent a top pick this year on him and would need more than a random 1st back to get rid of him.

2) his counters for Nuk don't deserve responses. They're terrible.

3) classic owner undervaluing Golden Tate. The guy has been a consistent WR2 for years. Just not flashy, he's a good guy to have, just not at that price.

4) easiest way to build a team is through the draft. That being said, you can also go to other owners to see what they need for their young pieces

[Lordchay]

I agree with Hudini33 about the offer for Mixon being low. I spent the 1.04 in my league to get Mixon and unless I was assured the 1.01 in next year's draft, I wouldn't be moving him for any 2018 1st. It would probably take 2 firsts especially if I don't know where they are going to reside.

Secondly, the Nuk offers were horrible though the second one was at least closer. I would've just told the owner weren't really looking to move Nuk. Maybe countered with ARob and worked from there.

The trade he ended up taking is different because he is giving up more value on his side but maybe he really likes those WRs. It isn't a horribly unbalanced trade but a little head-scratching.

[Goddard]

The initial offer of a random 1st (probably late 1st if it's yours) for Mixon was pretty bad. His initial counter was almost as bad. The second one with Watkins was probably fair value, but I would have turned it down as well. The final traded that he ended up making doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either, but some people are much higher on certain players than others. I wouldn't get too upset. If you still want Mixon, maybe you can try and work something out with the new owner who just bought him.

[hudini33]

I agree with Hudini33 about the offer for Mixon being low. I spent the 1.04 in my league to get Mixon and unless I was assured the 1.01 in next year's draft, I wouldn't be moving him for any 2018 1st. It would probably take 2 firsts especially if I don't know where they are going to reside.

Secondly, the Nuk offers were horrible though the second one was at least closer. I would've just told the owner weren't really looking to move Nuk. Maybe countered with ARob and worked from there.

The trade he ended up taking is different because he is giving up more value on his side but maybe he really likes those WRs. It isn't a horribly unbalanced trade but a little head-scratching.

Lol, thanks, not a ton agree with me.

Also, I agree with the rest of this. That owner is off on values, but maybe he has a different view than we do, it's dynasty, nothing is absolute.

[djeternal2]

4 days later trade goes through (pushed through by myself as co-owners can push trades through):

Tm1: baldwin, engram, mixon
Tm2: cooks, fuller, thielen

So the top line I quoted confused me. What do you mean you pushed it through?

1) I think offering a first for Mixon is low. The guy probably spent a top pick this year on him and would need more than a random 1st back to get rid of him.

2) his counters for Nuk don't deserve responses. They're terrible.

3) classic owner undervaluing Golden Tate. The guy has been a consistent WR2 for years. Just not flashy, he's a good guy to have, just not at that price.

4) easiest way to build a team is through the draft. That being said, you can also go to other owners to see what they need for their young pieces

Only thing meant by pushed through is that the commish and myself as co-commish (done in case a trade involves the commish) means that I pushed the trade through before the 48h wait period. The commish set it up this way just so someone impartial takes a look at the trade in case of collusion. This league has been around for 3 years and this set up has worked out fine to this point. Most trades are pushed through by the commish or myself within an hour or two of the trade being accepted. Now none of that is here nor there as it does not pertain to the question I'm raising.

As for your #1 yes I knew it was low but I felt it was at the very least a starting point. Mixon had not shown much 2 weeks ago and still has not to this point imo. As for Tate I get the "CONSISTENT #2" until he isn't which seems to be this year. I'm not going to pay for previous year's results.

[harr]

2) his counters for Nuk don't deserve responses. They're terrible.

I disagree entirely on this. Even if you don't think they're "worthy" of a response, maybe the owner is doing the exact same thing he is doing...exploring possibilities. We all value players differently. It's worth a response something like, "I don't think the counters for Nuk are very close at all, but I might be willing to move him in a deal for Mixon if you added _____." Or tell him you're not interested in moving Nuk at this time. This is probably the thing that bothers me most in leagues. "That doesn't even deserve a response." Imagine if every terrible offer you've made in your fantasy career (we've all made them at some point) came with no response? It's much more productive for all parties involved to give feedback, so the other owner knows where you're coming from. If it's that ridiculous, ask them if they would make this deal. I've done that plenty of times and often the other owners end up saying, "well, now that I look at it, no I wouldn't" or "I see where you'e coming from". I apologize for the wordy response. I just think too often people look to win trades instead of making deals that work for both teams.

As far as the trade that went through...I'd much rather have the Mixon side of that one.

[skip]

Your offer for Mixon was low.
His counter of Mixon/Watkins for Nuk was equally low.

I'm not sure what you mean by this: "It annoys me that the owner wasn't willing to explore other options when it came to dealing with me but with other he was." Sounds like you've got sour because he dealt Mixon to someone else and got a good return for him. I'm also not sure what you mean by "pushed thru".

[djeternal2]

Your offer for Mixon was low.
His counter of Mixon/Watkins for Nuk was equally low.

I'm not sure what you mean by this: "It annoys me that the owner wasn't willing to explore other options when it came to dealing with me but with other he was." Sounds like you've got sour because he dealt Mixon to someone else and got a good return for him. I'm also not sure what you mean by "pushed thru".

I'm not sour at all. I've already reached out to the new owner of Mixon. I guess my statement of exploring other options needs a bit of context in this forum. This particular owner has only shown a penchant for trying to obtain my top WRs at a bargain basement price (imo). For the last year it's been Nuk. Before that it was Julio until I traded Julio straight up to a Falcons homer in the league for Nuk. I've posted a few of his offers in the ridiculous trade offer threads over the last year or so. I know what this guy is about for the most part. Frankly I was just posting on here to see if I was waaaaay off (as I have said before I knew it was light) on my original offer. I know there are a number o0f Mixon truthers out there that wouldn't take anything less than Bell/Zeke for Mixon. Just wondering if you guys got the sense this was one of those type of guys.

[skip]

Your offer for Mixon was low.
His counter of Mixon/Watkins for Nuk was equally low.

I'm not sure what you mean by this: "It annoys me that the owner wasn't willing to explore other options when it came to dealing with me but with other he was." Sounds like you've got sour because he dealt Mixon to someone else and got a good return for him. I'm also not sure what you mean by "pushed thru".

I'm not sour at all. I've already reached out to the new owner of Mixon. I guess my statement of exploring other options needs a bit of context in this forum. This particular owner has only shown a penchant for trying to obtain my top WRs at a bargain basement price (imo). For the last year it's been Nuk. Before that it was Julio until I traded Julio straight up to a Falcons homer in the league for Nuk. I've posted a few of his offers in the ridiculous trade offer threads over the last year or so. I know what this guy is about for the most part. Frankly I was just posting on here to see if I was waaaaay off (as I have said before I knew it was light) on my original offer. I know there are a number o0f Mixon truthers out there that wouldn't take anything less than Bell/Zeke for Mixon. Just wondering if you guys got the sense this was one of those type of guys.

Mixon isn't on the tier with those RBs. But likewise I do not believe Hopkins belongs in the elite tier either. I actually think the Mixon/Watkins offer was pretty fair but I'm higher on Watkins than many and I think he's being impacted negatively about Goff not being capable of getting him the football.

[BigBawseRoss]

needed better initial offer, sounds like your team didnt have what he was looking for, i wouldnt worry too much and just keep sending offers or focus on other teams to deal with.

idk why everyone says the mixon watkins counter was light that seems pretty even on name value alone, sure hopkins is currently worth more but in another 2 years it could conceivably look lopsided the other way

[BigBawseRoss]

and instantly rejecting that mixon sammy counter and not opening communication probably killed your chances to be honest. if i own those 2 on the same team i would view them as 2 of my main pieces and for you to dismiss them is a slap in the face (at least say "hey im not a sammy believer") and tells me our player values dont align well

[djeternal2]

and instantly rejecting that mixon sammy counter and not opening communication probably killed your chances to be honest. if i own those 2 on the same team i would view them as 2 of my main pieces and for you to dismiss them is a slap in the face (at least say "hey im not a sammy believer") and tells me our player values dont align well

Actually if you read my previous post I feel Sammy is a buy low. I am Sammy believer, own him in a another league; but, selling Nuk for an oft-injured Sammy (and now on his second team which he was traded to right at the end of training camp) & a Rb that still has not shown much imo is really underselling Nuk. Nuk at least has shown he can be a top 10 WR under multiple QBs not named Brock Lobster. And frankly it looks like he may have finally hooked up with a legit QB in Watson. If this was AJG at 29 yrs old or Dez etc then it's a no brainer imo. Hell I'd even give it consideration if it was ARob (altho I am prolly much higher on ARob than most on these boards). So yeah you may see it as a slap in the face. But I can see it the same way with the offer for Nuk. btw not trying to argue the merits of each individual offer. Frankly just trying to see if I was considered waaaaaay off in my valuation of Mixon.

[Vcize]

It annoys me that the owner wasn't willing to explore other options when it came to dealing with me but with other he was. It really sorta solidifies my belief of building this team through draft & FA.

So am I really that far off the reservation on this?

This statement makes no sense to me. You sent over a low-ball offer for Mixon that didn't deserve a counter but he sent one anyway. You rejected without counter so he sent another one. You again rejected without counter so he moved on, and you are somehow annoyed that he then moved on?

Your entire role in the process was sending over one poor low-ball offer and then you apparently thought that meant he was supposed to do all the legwork from there on out, and that he was beholden to you and not allowed to trade with another owner that was actually willing to give him some back and forth. And yes, his counters were better offers than your opener, but he was still willing to send over counters where you were not. You have nothing to be annoyed about.

So to answer your question. It's not him, it's you.

[djeternal2]

It annoys me that the owner wasn't willing to explore other options when it came to dealing with me but with other he was. It really sorta solidifies my belief of building this team through draft & FA.

So am I really that far off the reservation on this?

This statement makes no sense to me. You sent over a low-ball offer for Mixon that didn't deserve a counter but he sent one anyway. You rejected without counter so he sent another one. You again rejected without counter so he moved on, and you are somehow annoyed that he then moved on?

Your entire role in the process was sending over one poor low-ball offer and then you apparently thought that meant he was supposed to do all the legwork from there on out, and that he was beholden to you and not allowed to trade with another owner that was actually willing to give him some back and forth. And yes, his counters were better offers than your opener, but he was still willing to send over counters where you were not. You have nothing to be annoyed about.

So to answer your question. It's not him, it's you.

Thank you for your input even tho I never said he was "beholden to me and not allowed to trade with anyone else". If you read furthur in the thread it was me who pushed through this owners trade of Mixon. I didn't raise a stink or try and have it vetoed or just cancel it out altogether. This owner felt he got better "value" in the trade he made. That'll be seen in the next 2-3 years. My question was and still is if I'm that far off on Mixon's value (yes I knew a random late 18 first was light but felt it was an opener).