Same startup as Vince and a few others

[GridIronFavre]

To add to what I said earlier, I agree with some of the other comments about age. Peyton, Portis, Driver all only make sense if you are planning to win the championship immediately, which with the rest of the talent being so focused on youth, I don't see how that is going to be possible with your current roster. Yes, you have to mix youth and older guys but not so extreme.

[princevincexoxo]

And as far as Roddy goes......

I study info from several dynasty sites. Everyone ranks players slightly differently, after all, if they were all the same, there wouldn't be the need for so much different content.

So far, my favorite sites are DLF, Dynasty Rogues, and Dynasty Guys (in no particular order).

Volman is also on Dynasty Rogues I think.

And on Dynasty Rogues, they had Roddy White as the #5WR (behind the big 4.......Calvin, Fitz, Andre, Marshall). DLF sees things differently, as they have VJax #4. Which is more accurate?......we don't know, that's the beauty of fantasy football!!!

Sooooooo, if the 1st 8 draft positions see the top 4RBs taken, followed by Calvin, Fitz, Andre, Marshall, then at the 1.9, it's decision time. Do you take the #5RB from your cheatsheet (Mendanhall)? Or do you take the #5WR from your sheet (Roddy)? Or the #1QB from your sheet (Rodgers)?

Mendenhall....or trade down.

If you're thinking of taking Mendenhall at 1.9, trade down. He is a 2nd rd dynasty pick, just like Roddy.

Once upon a time Steven Jackson was a late-1st....behind LT, LJ, SA, etc....

I took him 2nd that year....

You may be able to get Mendenhall in the 2nd but he is a 1st round dynasty cornerstone that is generally perceived as being a 2nd round value. If the general population says Rodgers should be picked in the late 1st....people who want Rodgers are going to start taking him around that spot....that doesnt mean he SHOULD BE taken there it just means people that WANT HIM need to take him there....if you break down the numbers and the value, no QB should be taken in the 1st or early 2nd round.....ever.

Ever since Peyton Manning and Brady set those TD records people have been waaaay overvaluing QB's. You guys can take Aaron Rodgers and his 360 points in the 1st.....ill continue to take my 2 QB's and their 300+ points in the 10th+ round....

[princevincexoxo]

Well DLF ranks VJax as the #4WR, so if at 1.9, he took VJax, would that have gotten more "thumbs up"? I've seen many dynasty drafts & rankings where he's a mid 2nd round kinda guy, taken after Austin, Roddy, DeSean, etc.

Outside of the top 4RBs, I see question marks with the rest of them.

This is why you draft high value cornerstones at RB....I took AJ in the DLFIV in the 1st and its not looking too good....I should have just taken Mendenhall or Stewart there....top flight WR's are late 1st's at best IMO.

[jordanzs]

I guess my only concern with high value RBs is that they can go to crap in a hurry!

Last year, wasn't Forte a top 4 pick? Slaton in the top 10? Look at them now.

Even the WRs who have an off season (examples from last year.......Calvin, Jennings) tend to rebound better & hold their value.

[hosler427]

I guess my only concern with high value RBs is that they can go to crap in a hurry!

Last year, wasn't Forte a top 4 pick? Slaton in the top 10? Look at them now.

Even the WRs who have an off season (examples from last year.......Calvin, Jennings) tend to rebound better & hold their value.

this is why I like to trade down if possible. Another thing I see you are doing is bringing up the rankings on different websites. It is ok to use them for some insight but I think it is important every owner comes up with their own player rankings. This will definitely force you to look at situations more objectively.

[hostile]

You may be able to get Mendenhall in the 2nd but he is a 1st round dynasty cornerstone that is generally perceived as being a 2nd round value. If the general population says Rodgers should be picked in the late 1st....people who want Rodgers are going to start taking him around that spot....that doesnt mean he SHOULD BE taken there it just means people that WANT HIM need to take him there....if you break down the numbers and the value, no QB should be taken in the 1st or early 2nd round.....ever.

Sorry, Vince, but I'll heavily disagree with you there.

What if its a start 2QB league?

What if the scoring is 6pts/QB TD?

Both of those things dramatically change the value of QBs, so to use a blanket statement as you have above, I believe is erroneous.

I would much rather lock up my QB1 with a stud for the next decade or more in the late first rather than a short shelf life RB.

[princevincexoxo]

You may be able to get Mendenhall in the 2nd but he is a 1st round dynasty cornerstone that is generally perceived as being a 2nd round value. If the general population says Rodgers should be picked in the late 1st....people who want Rodgers are going to start taking him around that spot....that doesnt mean he SHOULD BE taken there it just means people that WANT HIM need to take him there....if you break down the numbers and the value, no QB should be taken in the 1st or early 2nd round.....ever.

Sorry, Vince, but I'll heavily disagree with you there.

What if its a start 2QB league?

What if the scoring is 6pts/QB TD?

Both of those things dramatically change the value of QBs, so to use a blanket statement as you have above, I believe is erroneous.

I would much rather lock up my QB1 with a stud for the next decade or more in the late first rather than a short shelf life RB.

You got me

I dont play in start 2 QB dynasty leagues though and if I did no way I'd be down for 6 points per TD...it gives the QB position WAY WAAAAAY too much value....

[hostile]

You may be able to get Mendenhall in the 2nd but he is a 1st round dynasty cornerstone that is generally perceived as being a 2nd round value. If the general population says Rodgers should be picked in the late 1st....people who want Rodgers are going to start taking him around that spot....that doesnt mean he SHOULD BE taken there it just means people that WANT HIM need to take him there....if you break down the numbers and the value, no QB should be taken in the 1st or early 2nd round.....ever.

Sorry, Vince, but I'll heavily disagree with you there.

What if its a start 2QB league?

What if the scoring is 6pts/QB TD?

Both of those things dramatically change the value of QBs, so to use a blanket statement as you have above, I believe is erroneous.

I would much rather lock up my QB1 with a stud for the next decade or more in the late first rather than a short shelf life RB.

You got me

I dont play in start 2 QB dynasty leagues though and if I did no way I'd be down for 6 points per TD...it gives the QB position WAY WAAAAAY too much value....

I play in both a start-2 league and one where QB TDs are 6 pts. Not both in one! That would be a little crazy.

The league in which the QB TDs are 6pts, there is no PPR, so its a TD-heavy league, ad I can tell you that if you dont have a top-notch QB, life can be tough.



With that said, even in a "normal" scoring/format league, if Aaron Rodgers fell to me at 1.09, I'd be very, very hard-pressed to pass him up at that stage. I used to believe in the "RB/RB" method, but with the NFL now a passing league, I'm far more inclined to wait on RBs, b/c outside of the top 4 or 5, the point-production per ADP plateaus for quite a while.

[princevincexoxo]

I used to believe in the "RB/RB" method, but with the NFL now a passing league, I'm far more inclined to wait on RBs, b/c outside of the top 4 or 5, the point-production per ADP plateaus for quite a while.

This makes no sense because you are always missing out on RB's that emerge as top 3-4-5 RB's because of this mindset.




Since the league is more of a passing league it makes RB's MORE valuable, and QB's LESS valuable....not vice versa. So though your facts are right, your evaluation of them are a bit off. And since its MORE of passing league that would boost the value of all QB's and make the value of a consistent RB even higher because that means they are at a premium....

The mistake a lot of people make is thinking of it from a points standpoint....if you compare a 380 point QB to a 250 point RB doesnt make the QB more valuable it makes them more productive. Value is determined by the amount of production left among the players at a certain position. You cant compare a RB to a QB based on points, it must be done by value...This is simple statistics man....


if the top 10 QB's score

380, 360, 340, 330, 320, 320, 310, 310, 300, 300, 280, 280, 260, 260, 260, 250, 250, 250, 210 and 210

and the top 10 RB's score

370, 320, 320, 320, 260, 250, 250, 240, 220, 220, 210, 210, 200, 200, 190, 190, 190, 190, 190, and 180


With this in mind.....are you going to want to get a top 10 RB first or a top 10 QB? I'll take the number 6 RB in round 1....and the number 12 QB in round 8 EVERY TIME.

[hostile]

I used to believe in the "RB/RB" method, but with the NFL now a passing league, I'm far more inclined to wait on RBs, b/c outside of the top 4 or 5, the point-production per ADP plateaus for quite a while.

This makes no sense because you are always missing out on RB's that emerge as top 3-4-5 RB's because of this mindset.




Since the league is more of a passing league it makes RB's MORE valuable, and QB's LESS valuable....not vice versa. So though your facts are right, your evaluation of them are a bit off. And since its MORE of passing league that would boost the value of all QB's and make the value of a consistent RB even higher because that means they are at a premium....

The mistake a lot of people make is thinking of it from a points standpoint....if you compare a 380 point QB to a 250 point RB doesnt make the QB more valuable it makes them more productive. Value is determined by the amount of production left among the players at a certain position. You cant compare a RB to a QB based on points, it must be done by value...This is simple statistics man....


if the top 10 QB's score

380, 360, 340, 330, 320, 320, 310, 310, 300, 300, 280, 280, 260, 260, 260, 250, 250, 250, 210 and 210

and the top 10 RB's score

370, 320, 320, 320, 260, 250, 250, 240, 220, 220, 210, 210, 200, 200, 190, 190, 190, 190, 190, and 180


With this in mind.....are you going to want to get a top 10 RB first or a top 10 QB? I'll take the number 6 RB in round 1....and the number 12 QB in round 8 EVERY TIME.

To be perfectly honest, if I'm at the back of the 1st round, I usually draft back-to-back WRs first.

However, back to my original point, if Rodgers falls to me at 1.09, I'll gladly take him and then see what happens at the turn. I just think that is far too great of a long-term value to pass up.

[volman]

I'd be curious to see the trade where you gave away the 2.04 - you could have gotten Roddy there, I think, as others have stated, and you could have taken an RB in the first? or Rodgers? Would have changed the dynamic of your team.

I think the Fred Davis pick is my favorite, btw...

-oo-

* VOLMAN gave up Pick 2.04 and Pick 6.04
* Good Winners gave up Pick 3.11, Pick 4.12 and 2011 Round 1 Draft Pick from Another Team

I think he initially got the better end of the deal value-wise....Im not sure if I can say you took full advantage of it though..

3.11 - H. Nicks
4.12 - Vernon Davis

That's not a bad combo IMO.

As for reaching on Roddy, I may have taken him a bit early, but I really like his upside alot. I am a huge Vjax fan, but have him in several leagues already, so I decided to mix it up a bit.

[volman]

And as far as Roddy goes......

I study info from several dynasty sites. Everyone ranks players slightly differently, after all, if they were all the same, there wouldn't be the need for so much different content.

So far, my favorite sites are DLF, Dynasty Rogues, and Dynasty Guys (in no particular order).

Volman is also on Dynasty Rogues I think.

And on Dynasty Rogues, they had Roddy White as the #5WR (behind the big 4.......Calvin, Fitz, Andre, Marshall). DLF sees things differently, as they have VJax #4. Which is more accurate?......we don't know, that's the beauty of fantasy football!!!

Sooooooo, if the 1st 8 draft positions see the top 4RBs taken, followed by Calvin, Fitz, Andre, Marshall, then at the 1.9, it's decision time. Do you take the #5RB from your cheatsheet (Mendanhall)? Or do you take the #5WR from your sheet (Roddy)? Or the #1QB from your sheet (Rodgers)?

You are correct, I am on Rogues as well. I took Roddy b/c he is who I wanted the most. I was going to take Austin or Matthews at 2.4. I didn't take Mendy b/c I don't have as much faith in him as I do Roddy or Austin/Vjax for that matter. I think it ultimately comes down to who you have faith in.
As for Portis, I only to him b/c I thought he might give me some good production even though I really can't stand him. At the time I took him, the best RB's on the board were Portis, McGahee, Maroney, Chester Taylor.
I know I took some old guys at WR, but I got Driver and Mason to help in case the younger WR's don't product initially. I also took H. Miller(after trading Keller) and Fred Davis b/c we can actually start 3 TE's and I figured it didn't hurt to have depth.
As for Peyton Manning, I won't try to justify him. I will only say GO VOLS!!

Also, thanks for all the feedback guys. I love it. We all have different ways to build a team and that is part of what makes this so much fun.

[volman]

I used to believe in the "RB/RB" method, but with the NFL now a passing league, I'm far more inclined to wait on RBs, b/c outside of the top 4 or 5, the point-production per ADP plateaus for quite a while.

This makes no sense because you are always missing out on RB's that emerge as top 3-4-5 RB's because of this mindset.




Since the league is more of a passing league it makes RB's MORE valuable, and QB's LESS valuable....not vice versa. So though your facts are right, your evaluation of them are a bit off. And since its MORE of passing league that would boost the value of all QB's and make the value of a consistent RB even higher because that means they are at a premium....

The mistake a lot of people make is thinking of it from a points standpoint....if you compare a 380 point QB to a 250 point RB doesnt make the QB more valuable it makes them more productive. Value is determined by the amount of production left among the players at a certain position. You cant compare a RB to a QB based on points, it must be done by value...This is simple statistics man....


if the top 10 QB's score

380, 360, 340, 330, 320, 320, 310, 310, 300, 300, 280, 280, 260, 260, 260, 250, 250, 250, 210 and 210

and the top 10 RB's score

370, 320, 320, 320, 260, 250, 250, 240, 220, 220, 210, 210, 200, 200, 190, 190, 190, 190, 190, and 180


With this in mind.....are you going to want to get a top 10 RB first or a top 10 QB? I'll take the number 6 RB in round 1....and the number 12 QB in round 8 EVERY TIME.

To be perfectly honest, if I'm at the back of the 1st round, I usually draft back-to-back WRs first.

However, back to my original point, if Rodgers falls to me at 1.09, I'll gladly take him and then see what happens at the turn. I just think that is far too great of a long-term value to pass up.

I am with you. I have no problem going WR/WR to start a draft.

I will also say that I doubt very seriously that the same 26 guys I draft right now will all be on my team when Week 1 gets here.

[princevincexoxo]

Lets take this a step further then because 1) stability at QB is much easier to come by than stability at RB mainly because a) you usually need multiple RB's and b) the standard deviation among RB production is greater than the deviation among QB production - thus making mid tier RB's just as valuable if not slightly more valuable than top tier QB's. 2) Stability at QB is pretty insignificant because you generally get what you pay for with QB's and if you draft a QB like Rodgers too high then the few weeks that he isnt outscoring guys like McNabb, Cutler, Romo, Eli, Garrard, Orton etc by a lot of points...is another week you have lost value at that pick. In opposed to someone like Mendenhall, Stewart, etc...will most likely outscore a Felix Jones, Jerome Harrison, or Reggie Bush consistently almost EVERY WEEK.

Another reason why stability among QB's isnt important...because if it were then Matt Ryan would be more valuable than McNabb, Orton, Campbell, or Garrard because his starting job is more stable? Well...while you are waiting for these guys to lose their jobs...I'll draft several of them in the later rounds while building up my RB's, and WR's and score more points all around, and have a better chance at winning with a handful of these mediocre QB's while they are being undervalued. Just look.....

top 10 QB's score in
2009, 2008
Rodgers - 380, Brees - 340
Brees - 360, Cutler - 320
PManning - 340, Rodgers - 320
Schaub - 330, Rivers - 320
Brady - 320, Warner - 310
Rivers - 320, PManning - 300
Romo - 310, Cassel - 290
Favre - 310, McNabb - 280
Big Ben - 300, Garrard - 260
EManning - 300, Romo - 260
Warner - 280, Pennington - 250
McNabb - 280, Thigpen - 250
Cutler - 260, EManning - 240
Garrard - 260, Brett Favre - 240
Palmer - 260, Big Ben - 240
Flacco - 250, Ryan - 230
Campbell - 250, Campbell - 220
Orton - 250, Flacco - 220
Ryan - 210, Delhomme - 210
Cassel - 210, Orton - 210


QB's in no way shape or form should be taken in the 1st round in a standard league....if you want a stud QB THAT BAD...I would advise you to trade your 1st rounder and draft one in the 2nd or 3rd to get maximum value...otherwise its a cumulative waste of value every week your QB does not outscore an opposing QB by a significant amount of points. (that only happened consistently in 2 years...Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady's record setting years..)

In addition....if every week I were to have started the better QB of Campbell (pick 178) and Orton (pick 186) last year combined they would have totaled 315 points in comparison to Rodgers' 380 (pick 9)....and you can make up the excues all you want "well who is going to start the right QB EVERYTIME?" Even if combined they scored 100 point less thats about a 6 point per game difference....a better group of WR's, and RB's with better depth to accomodate injuries can easily overcome 6 points not to mention what if Rodgers underperforms? (Here is where you ask: What if Orton underperforms? Well....he was already expected too! So chances are unless he scores less than 7-10 points he is actually for the most part ALWAYS over-achieving, or at least being consistent with low expectations!). Thats the best part about buy low QB's they (unless his their name is Ryan Leaf, or Jamarcus Russell...) are ALWAYS outperforming their draft position. How many times can you say that about Rodgers when he is taken in the 1st round? Maybe once or twice a year? There are no facts out there to support that taking a QB in the first round statistically is a quality pick - unless its a start 2 QB league....do the research...thats not just what I think, thats fact.

The best QB's to have are middle tier ones....but lower tier ones arent bad to fall back on if you build your team properly enough to accommodate them.

[jordanzs]

Just curious how you value QBs in a league where you start 1QB, but have a flex position QB/RB/WR/TE, so you can play 2 if you want to. Would you value them like a start 2QB league, or would you take them where they sit in the overall rankings & just not wait on them? Or draft as usual & let others jump the gun & start an early QB run?