RB upgrade?

[OCPunisher]

Hello friends,

I've been talking with the owner of David Johnson about a possible trade. He's interested in both Lamar Miller and Mark Ingram. On the one hand, Johnson is a fine player and all the reviews about him are raving that he's going to have a great season. On the other hand, my expendable resources are getting a little thin, and I'm not sure that Johnson is really that much of an upgrade over Lamar Miller (current DLF rankings have DJ at RB4 and Miller at RB5).

He's offering me Johnson plus player X for both Miller and Ingram. His core roster is as follows:
- QB: Brady, Eli
- RB: DJ, Forte, JHoward, Woodead, Foster, Jennings, Blue
- WR: Hilton, Decker, Edelman, Torrey, Wheaton, Braxton, LaFell, Ginn
- TE: Olson, Walker

The only player that catches my attention is Hilton, but even he doesn't really excite me as there are several mouths to feed in Indy (Moncrief, Dorsett, whoever their TE is). Is it worthwhile to try and get Johnson + Hilton for Miller and Ingram, or maybe try to get Johnson for only one RB, or should I just nix this altogether?

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

Why do you need Johnson? The only position you really need to upgrade at is TE, and I like Bennett as a low-end TE1 this season. I'd rather see if he'd be interested in Snead or Crabtree for Walker to strengthen your TE depth.

[DFHustle]

I'd try and move Miller for the value he's getting now. Miller is fine, he's nothing special, but that Oline isn't all that great. Foster had a terrible year running the ball last year pre-injury. Miller is going for top 5 value where I think he's more around the 10-12 RB. I have Ingram right behind Miller as well. I also have DJ as the #1 back this year, his combination of ability is just crazy.
I like your team, honestly. I think Jmatt will be your flex anyway.

If you could get DJ and woodhead for Miller and Ingram that would be an absolute steal. Maybe try and switch Bennett for Walker as well.

DJ, Woodhead, Walker for Miller, Ingram, and Bennett.

I'd do that all day long.

[dblj1199]

If he would do it for Hilton I'd make the deal. You can start four wrs in a ppr and not have the clock ticking on when Ingram gets hurts.

[Dynastychamp111]

I'd try and move Miller for the value he's getting now. Miller is fine, he's nothing special, but that Oline isn't all that great. Foster had a terrible year running the ball last year pre-injury. Miller is going for top 5 value where I think he's more around the 10-12 RB. I have Ingram right behind Miller as well. I also have DJ as the #1 back this year, his combination of ability is just crazy.
I like your team, honestly. I think Jmatt will be your flex anyway.

If you could get DJ and woodhead for Miller and Ingram that would be an absolute steal. Maybe try and switch Bennett for Walker as well.

DJ, Woodhead, Walker for Miller, Ingram, and Bennett.

I'd do that all day long.

I dont agree with this at all. Miller is fine, but he also could be a top 3 back, the upside is there. That not so great O'line allowed Alfred Blue and Your terrible foster be fantasy relevant. Also as far as Foster being terrible last year? He played in 4 games and averaged 19.75 ppg during that span in PPR. I am not that high on foster but usable.

I have ingram and Miller about the same, however miller has a higher upside, ingram a safer floor.

I wouldnt trade one of them for DJ as if healthy Miller and Ingram will put up similar numbers as DJ. I would work on upgrading your TE.

[DFHustle]

I'd try and move Miller for the value he's getting now. Miller is fine, he's nothing special, but that Oline isn't all that great. Foster had a terrible year running the ball last year pre-injury. Miller is going for top 5 value where I think he's more around the 10-12 RB. I have Ingram right behind Miller as well. I also have DJ as the #1 back this year, his combination of ability is just crazy.
I like your team, honestly. I think Jmatt will be your flex anyway.

If you could get DJ and woodhead for Miller and Ingram that would be an absolute steal. Maybe try and switch Bennett for Walker as well.

DJ, Woodhead, Walker for Miller, Ingram, and Bennett.

I'd do that all day long.

I dont agree with this at all. Miller is fine, but he also could be a top 3 back, the upside is there. That not so great O'line allowed Alfred Blue and Your terrible foster be fantasy relevant. Also as far as Foster being terrible last year? He played in 4 games and averaged 19.75 ppg during that span in PPR. I am not that high on foster but usable.

I have ingram and Miller about the same, however miller has a higher upside, ingram a safer floor.

I wouldnt trade one of them for DJ as if healthy Miller and Ingram will put up similar numbers as DJ. I would work on upgrading your TE.

2.6 ypc is great. Please note, I said running the ball. Foster got his points on volume and in the passing game because he's Foster and they had no QB. Osweiler isn't a whole lot better, but I don't see Miller getting the volume Foster did(Foster was on pace for 400 touches to Millers 250 career max). I'm not sure Miller, as he's never shown(not by choice, but it's still a question mark), can handle that much workload to be able to be able to crack the top 3(when he had a couple higher volume games, he got a shoulder injury). Miller was very efficient in MIA, I don't think his YPC will translate, if you think so, then I guess he's twice the runner as Foster.

DJ also started in the last 4 games of the fantasy season, against 3 out of 4 top defenses, and average 24 points per game in PPR. 25% more than Foster, who went against IND, JAX, and MIA and still struggled to run the ball (I don't think its a Foster thing, I think it's an O-line thing).

Those reasons, and I think they are compelling, are why I don't see Miller, and even worse so, Ingram, being anywhere near Johnson.

Edit: Side note, I have both Miller and DJ3k on the same team. So there isn't ownership or non-ownership bias going on.

[OCPunisher]

Glad to see that there are some conflicting opinions here...makes me feel better about having some pause in making a deal.

I certainly don't think that DJ/Woodhead/Walker for Miller/Ingram/Bennett is a good deal. Woodhead is old, Walker is actually older (had to look that up), and although DJ is the best player in the deal, Miller and Ingram aren't that far behind. If DJ is a 10, Miller is probably a 9, Ingram an 8, Walker a 5 or 6, and Woodhead is...meh.

Hilton is also a hard one for me to like, mostly because of all the other young WRs in Indy. His floor just seems so low to me.

[Dynastychamp111]

I'd try and move Miller for the value he's getting now. Miller is fine, he's nothing special, but that Oline isn't all that great. Foster had a terrible year running the ball last year pre-injury. Miller is going for top 5 value where I think he's more around the 10-12 RB. I have Ingram right behind Miller as well. I also have DJ as the #1 back this year, his combination of ability is just crazy.
I like your team, honestly. I think Jmatt will be your flex anyway.

If you could get DJ and woodhead for Miller and Ingram that would be an absolute steal. Maybe try and switch Bennett for Walker as well.

DJ, Woodhead, Walker for Miller, Ingram, and Bennett.

I'd do that all day long.

I dont agree with this at all. Miller is fine, but he also could be a top 3 back, the upside is there. That not so great O'line allowed Alfred Blue and Your terrible foster be fantasy relevant. Also as far as Foster being terrible last year? He played in 4 games and averaged 19.75 ppg during that span in PPR. I am not that high on foster but usable.

I have ingram and Miller about the same, however miller has a higher upside, ingram a safer floor.

I wouldnt trade one of them for DJ as if healthy Miller and Ingram will put up similar numbers as DJ. I would work on upgrading your TE.

2.6 ypc is great. Please note, I said running the ball. Foster got his points on volume and in the passing game because he's Foster and they had no QB. Osweiler isn't a whole lot better, but I don't see Miller getting the volume Foster did(Foster was on pace for 400 touches to Millers 250 career max). I'm not sure Miller, as he's never shown(not by choice, but it's still a question mark), can handle that much workload to be able to be able to crack the top 3(when he had a couple higher volume games, he got a shoulder injury). Miller was very efficient in MIA, I don't think his YPC will translate, if you think so, then I guess he's twice the runner as Foster.

DJ also started in the last 4 games of the fantasy season, against 3 out of 4 top defenses, and average 24 points per game in PPR. 25% more than Foster, who went against IND, JAX, and MIA and still struggled to run the ball (I don't think its a Foster thing, I think it's an O-line thing).

Those reasons, and I think they are compelling, are why I don't see Miller, and even worse so, Ingram, being anywhere near Johnson.

Edit: Side note, I have both Miller and DJ3k on the same team. So there isn't ownership or non-ownership bias going on.

Even if i take that with a grain of salt, saying to trade ingram and miller for DJ is crazy. If DJ is the top back RB, Miller and ingram will finish top 10 if healthy each. Trading both for one doesnt make any sense. I like DJ, but the difference between them doesnt add up. Even if you add in Woodhead and Bennett.

[DFHustle]

Even if i take that with a grain of salt, saying to trade ingram and miller for DJ is crazy. If DJ is the top back RB, Miller and ingram will finish top 10 if healthy each. Trading both for one doesnt make any sense. I like DJ, but the difference between them doesnt add up. Even if you add in Woodhead and Bennett.

Never said DJ straight up for those two. Originally said DJ/Woodhead for Miller/Ingram. There really isn't that big of a dropoff between Woodhead and Ingram(15.3 vs 17.0 PPG PPR standard scoring in 2015). Oh and you get Woodhead for full seasons (usually).

Taking your 19.75 ppg vs. DJ's 24.0 PPG with a 4 game sample size(which you are fine with) and let's give that ~20 ppg to Miller(which I think is too much, he's no Foster).The net gain is 2.3 PPG.

Additionally, due to the high perceived value of Miller, you could make a switch between Bennett and Walker, which, let's face it, Chandler isn't that far off of Bennett these days and he did nothing last year. No #2 TE has mattered in NE(or anywhere) since Hernandez and Bennett is no where near the athlete(never was, and especially now). I see you picking up at least 4-5 ppg from this alone.

I see the trade keeping depth on your roster and increase scoring on a per week basis by 6-8 points in standard PPR scoring. Even if DJ produces the exact same, which I doubt, the TE move is much better for you and nets you an actual starter (not a #2).

[Mjvb5]

Even if i take that with a grain of salt, saying to trade ingram and miller for DJ is crazy. If DJ is the top back RB, Miller and ingram will finish top 10 if healthy each. Trading both for one doesnt make any sense. I like DJ, but the difference between them doesnt add up. Even if you add in Woodhead and Bennett.

Never said DJ straight up for those two. Originally said DJ/Woodhead for Miller/Ingram. There really isn't that big of a dropoff between Woodhead and Ingram(15.3 vs 17.0 PPG PPR standard scoring in 2015). Oh and you get Woodhead for full seasons (usually).

Taking your 19.75 ppg vs. DJ's 24.0 PPG with a 4 game sample size(which you are fine with) and let's give that ~20 ppg to Miller(which I think is too much, he's no Foster).The net gain is 2.3 PPG.

Additionally, due to the high perceived value of Miller, you could make a switch between Bennett and Walker, which, let's face it, Chandler isn't that far off of Bennett these days and he did nothing last year. No #2 TE has mattered in NE(or anywhere) since Hernandez and Bennett is no where near the athlete(never was, and especially now). I see you picking up at least 4-5 ppg from this alone.

I see the trade keeping depth on your roster and increase scoring on a per week basis by 6-8 points in standard PPR scoring. Even if DJ produces the exact same, which I doubt, the TE move is much better for you and nets you an actual starter (not a #2).

Just wondering why is it so bad to take fosters four game sample size but then perfectly fine to use DJs four game sample size? Also yes I'd say Miller now is better than last years heavily injured foster.

Saying that to me Miller isn't all that different from DJ to me, I've got them as the rb3 and rb4 with the nod to Miller actually, I'll take the guy with a long term proven track record on a terrible team than the guy with a few really good games on a great team.(reminds me a bit of Jeremy hill tbh, not the play style but the evaluations)

From this I don't know if pursuing DJ is all that great idea due to his very high value currently, I agree with one of the above posters that pursuing another TE is your best bet as that seems like your bigges hole.