Benard Pierce Value Check..

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby smudga55 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:45 pm

I actually think the right play here is Cierre Wood, just seems to me like things are lining up for him.
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby KU Sucks » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:10 pm

Just had an offer on Bernard Pierce & Latavius Murry; 2.4, 3.7 & Bryce Brown. I'm thinking I'm taking, I picked up Pierce & Murray last season off the ww......... Since I've only got the 1.12, 2.12 & 3.12 picks this works for me!

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby Slevin Kelevra » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:13 pm

lilpuppy99 wrote: Theres a new coaching staff in Baltimore now.
I didn't know Harbaugh was fired.

smudga55 wrote:I actually think the right play here is Cierre Wood, just seems to me like things are lining up for him.
You mean the guy CUT by the Texans (where Kubiak, the new Ravens OC, was the head coach) and then by the Patriots ?

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby TurtleBK » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:59 pm

^^ Yeah, the guy CUT by the Texans for smoking weed despite the fact that they (i.e. Kubiak +) liked his talent, and watched him run extremely well in preseason. Then he moved to the Pats' PRACTICE SQUAD and therefore was PICKED UP AND SIGNED BY KUBIAK off waivers, instead of being CUT. You can't make the case that Kubiak as OC didn't like him because 'he cut' Wood in Texas -- when the reason Wood was cut was for allegedly (no action or proof, just reports) smoking a joint with 2 other players in a hotel room, and NOT for talent reasons at all -- and then Kubiak was OC when the Ravens PICKED UP Wood. Just not looking at all the info.

FWIW I watched wood at ND for three years, and he's always looked like an NFL back and then some. Was a 5* talent coming out of HS. He's a bit of a prima donna, but he's been VERY healthy.

I think Wood is the most talented back on that roster, if you include Rice at his current effective talent level, as opposed to his upside coming out of college (which to be honest I don't think is all that much higher, but I'm a huge fan of Cierre's talent).
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby ericanadian » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:22 pm

ebreeze12 wrote:
ericanadian wrote:Thanks you two for demonstrating both massive underreaction and overreaction.
How is saying either jail or probation with a suspension from Goodell an overreaction? This is serious stuff. Maybe I should have quantified what I believe suspension. I think Rice will miss a minimum of 4 games. I don't know how court rooms work but I think he will be charged, minimum jail sentence with lots of probation. The fact that they upped the charges from simple assault to 3rd degree felony is a big deal.

What would you call a great middle ground?

Plaxico Burress went to jail for a felony. I don't see any reason why Rice can't do the same. The fact that it was in a Casino I think makes this a much more serious issue. You can't pick your nose in a casino without someone seeing.
Your first post essentially assumed conviction. Could happen, but given the evidence that's been released we're a long way from that. You then assumed that if he gets off he'll get the maximum suspension Goodell can throw out which you have since amended to at least six games. If he get's off without conviction, four games will likely be worst case scenario. Big Ben got six games for raping a girl and avoiding prosecution. This is bad, but it ain't rape.
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby danes1212 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:39 pm

ericanadian wrote:
ebreeze12 wrote:
ericanadian wrote:Thanks you two for demonstrating both massive underreaction and overreaction.
How is saying either jail or probation with a suspension from Goodell an overreaction? This is serious stuff. Maybe I should have quantified what I believe suspension. I think Rice will miss a minimum of 4 games. I don't know how court rooms work but I think he will be charged, minimum jail sentence with lots of probation. The fact that they upped the charges from simple assault to 3rd degree felony is a big deal.

What would you call a great middle ground?

Plaxico Burress went to jail for a felony. I don't see any reason why Rice can't do the same. The fact that it was in a Casino I think makes this a much more serious issue. You can't pick your nose in a casino without someone seeing.
Your first post essentially assumed conviction. Could happen, but given the evidence that's been released we're a long way from that. You then assumed that if he gets off he'll get the maximum suspension Goodell can throw out which you have since amended to at least six games. If he get's off without conviction, four games will likely be worst case scenario. Big Ben got six games for raping a girl and avoiding prosecution. This is bad, but it ain't rape.
Are u serious ericcanada??? You are way off base. Perhaps you should look up the difference between being indicted by a grand jury versus prosecution not even filing charges against you. Obviously there is substantial evidence against rice to not only go to a grand jury, but they end up indicting him. There was not an overreaction at all in that post. This is much more serious than the Big Ben incident.

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby holy_stromboli » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:03 pm

TurtleBK wrote:^^ Yeah, the guy CUT by the Texans for smoking weed despite the fact that they (i.e. Kubiak +) liked his talent, and watched him run extremely well in preseason. Then he moved to the Pats' PRACTICE SQUAD and therefore was PICKED UP AND SIGNED BY KUBIAK off waivers, instead of being CUT. You can't make the case that Kubiak as OC didn't like him because 'he cut' Wood in Texas -- when the reason Wood was cut was for allegedly (no action or proof, just reports) smoking a joint with 2 other players in a hotel room, and NOT for talent reasons at all -- and then Kubiak was OC when the Ravens PICKED UP Wood. Just not looking at all the info.

FWIW I watched wood at ND for three years, and he's always looked like an NFL back and then some. Was a 5* talent coming out of HS. He's a bit of a prima donna, but he's been VERY healthy.

I think Wood is the most talented back on that roster, if you include Rice at his current effective talent level, as opposed to his upside coming out of college (which to be honest I don't think is all that much higher, but I'm a huge fan of Cierre's talent).
Spot on. If he keeps his nose clean, and Rice is suspended at all and/or keeps slowing down, I too think Cierre Wood is a dark horse to take over that backfield. Not to mention he just turned 23. I am scooping him up where I can this offseason.

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby Studstables » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:07 pm

ebreeze12 wrote:
ericanadian wrote:Thanks you two for demonstrating both massive underreaction and overreaction.
How is saying either jail or probation with a suspension from Goodell an overreaction? This is serious stuff. Maybe I should have quantified what I believe suspension. I think Rice will miss a minimum of 4 games. I don't know how court rooms work but I think he will be charged, minimum jail sentence with lots of probation. The fact that they upped the charges from simple assault to 3rd degree felony is a big deal.

What would you call a great middle ground?

Plaxico Burress went to jail for a felony. I don't see any reason why Rice can't do the same. The fact that it was in a Casino I think makes this a much more serious issue. You can't pick your nose in a casino without someone seeing.
Not all felonies are equal. Gun laws in ny are harsher than assault in nj

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby ericanadian » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:45 am

Grand juries also indicted Clemens and Bonds. I have no doubt that the state has an assault case against Rice, but I think they're reaching on an aggravated assault charge. I've seen no reason to suspect Rice assaulted Ms. Palmer with a weapon, and it's pretty clear she's not a protected status such as a police officer. Their case then rests on proving Rice intended to cause serious bodily harm. Intent is a difficult thing to prove, which is exactly why the Bonds & Clemens cases fell apart.

I'll admit that I held on too long to Hernandez, so maybe I'm a poor judge on this sort of thing, but I own Rice, and I'm neither looking to unload him for pennies on the dollar nor desperately seeking to pick up Pierce (though that may be more to do with me not being totally sold on Pierce.)

Big Ben wasn't charged because they couldn't prove non-consent beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't mean that the evidence didn't strongly suggest that Roethlisberger raped the girl. Goodell doesn't care about reasonable doubt which should be clear to anyone that has followed his suspensions. I think he suspended Roethlisberger on the assumption that Big Ben was guilty or at least was viewed as being guilty by the public.
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby Scorpio78 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:52 pm

TurtleBK wrote:^^ Yeah, the guy CUT by the Texans for smoking weed despite the fact that they (i.e. Kubiak +) liked his talent, and watched him run extremely well in preseason. Then he moved to the Pats' PRACTICE SQUAD and therefore was PICKED UP AND SIGNED BY KUBIAK off waivers, instead of being CUT. You can't make the case that Kubiak as OC didn't like him because 'he cut' Wood in Texas -- when the reason Wood was cut was for allegedly (no action or proof, just reports) smoking a joint with 2 other players in a hotel room, and NOT for talent reasons at all -- and then Kubiak was OC when the Ravens PICKED UP Wood. Just not looking at all the info.

FWIW I watched wood at ND for three years, and he's always looked like an NFL back and then some. Was a 5* talent coming out of HS. He's a bit of a prima donna, but he's been VERY healthy.

I think Wood is the most talented back on that roster, if you include Rice at his current effective talent level, as opposed to his upside coming out of college (which to be honest I don't think is all that much higher, but I'm a huge fan of Cierre's talent).
Agree 100% with this assessment. You'll notice my team in the sig has Rice and Wood. Who's missing from that equation? Hmmm... And it's not as if I didn't have a chance to grab Pierce because I could have...I drafted Eifert, Ertz, and Cutler ahead of him in the 8th and 9th rounds. The Ravens have been steadfast in their support of Rice so he's not going anywhere...although he might be slapped with a 2-4 game suspension. At any rate, there was a report out of Baltimore that the Ravens might be looking to add a back in the draft. I wonder who they might be looking to replace? It's not Rice. And Wood was one of the first guys they targeted AFTER Kubiak came on board. Bernard Pierce is the one who is on the outs here...and the Ravens actions and words tell you as much. Now this is just my opinion of course, and I could be wrong, but I think Cierre Wood is going to be Rice's handcuff...which is why I own Cierre Wood and not Bernard Pierce.

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby captain howdy » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:40 pm

dane1212 wrote:
Are u serious ericcanada??? You are way off base. Perhaps you should look up the difference between being indicted by a grand jury versus prosecution not even filing charges against you. Obviously there is substantial evidence against rice to not only go to a grand jury, but they end up indicting him. There was not an overreaction at all in that post. This is much more serious than the Big Ben incident.
not really accurate.

As a prosecutor myself, I am fond of the saying, " a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich".

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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby BuckeyeNation » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:25 pm

captain howdy wrote:
dane1212 wrote:
Are u serious ericcanada??? You are way off base. Perhaps you should look up the difference between being indicted by a grand jury versus prosecution not even filing charges against you. Obviously there is substantial evidence against rice to not only go to a grand jury, but they end up indicting him. There was not an overreaction at all in that post. This is much more serious than the Big Ben incident.
not really accurate.

As a prosecutor myself, I am fond of the saying, " a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich".
I'm no prosecutor, but this has been my understanding as well. LOL

IMO, the percentage of cases like this that end up in a conviction of the initial charge is very low. I have no proof of this, but maybe captain howdy can chime in here. I think most courts expect plea deals and the negotiating of lower charges by defense lawyers. I think by indicting on the highest charge possible, it gives the courts more wiggle room to strike a deal and still get an outcome that they're ok with. Meaning that they will indict on a charge that is 1 or 2 charges "higher" than they actually expect to convict or settle on.
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby ericanadian » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:25 pm

Federal Grand Juries have very high conviction rates, which is where I assume the confusion comes from. I'm not sure about state grand juries.
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby Warwick9 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:21 pm

Scorpio78 wrote:
TurtleBK wrote:^^ Yeah, the guy CUT by the Texans for smoking weed despite the fact that they (i.e. Kubiak +) liked his talent, and watched him run extremely well in preseason. Then he moved to the Pats' PRACTICE SQUAD and therefore was PICKED UP AND SIGNED BY KUBIAK off waivers, instead of being CUT. You can't make the case that Kubiak as OC didn't like him because 'he cut' Wood in Texas -- when the reason Wood was cut was for allegedly (no action or proof, just reports) smoking a joint with 2 other players in a hotel room, and NOT for talent reasons at all -- and then Kubiak was OC when the Ravens PICKED UP Wood. Just not looking at all the info.

FWIW I watched wood at ND for three years, and he's always looked like an NFL back and then some. Was a 5* talent coming out of HS. He's a bit of a prima donna, but he's been VERY healthy.

I think Wood is the most talented back on that roster, if you include Rice at his current effective talent level, as opposed to his upside coming out of college (which to be honest I don't think is all that much higher, but I'm a huge fan of Cierre's talent).
Agree 100% with this assessment. You'll notice my team in the sig has Rice and Wood. Who's missing from that equation? Hmmm... And it's not as if I didn't have a chance to grab Pierce because I could have...I drafted Eifert, Ertz, and Cutler ahead of him in the 8th and 9th rounds. The Ravens have been steadfast in their support of Rice so he's not going anywhere...although he might be slapped with a 2-4 game suspension. At any rate, there was a report out of Baltimore that the Ravens might be looking to add a back in the draft. I wonder who they might be looking to replace? It's not Rice. And Wood was one of the first guys they targeted AFTER Kubiak came on board. Bernard Pierce is the one who is on the outs here...and the Ravens actions and words tell you as much. Now this is just my opinion of course, and I could be wrong, but I think Cierre Wood is going to be Rice's handcuff...which is why I own Cierre Wood and not Bernard Pierce.

Sorry but as a die hard Ravens fan, there is no way Bernard Pierce is on the outs in Baltimore. I think there's a good chance he leads the Ravens in rushing yards this season. Yes Rice/Pierce had terrible seasons last year but they were clearly not the only ones who disappointed. The O-line was brutal at best with Shipley/Gradkowski maning the LG/C spots, Yanda was recovering most of the year from a shoulder injury, and Oher is well, OHER! Now they have seriously upgraded their O-line by just getting a center in Zuttah who is a good fit for Kubiak's zone scheme, they get KO healthy and back at LG, yanda is now healthy and have a good player out of Wisconsin in his 2nd year to take over for Oher in Ricky Wagner, oh yeah and we locked up Eugene Munroe. Kubiak will help this O-line/running game immensily with Castillo there to assist. Not to mention they have Pitta back healthy and have another player to mentor the young WRs and command attention in the middle of the field in Steve Smith. They will also likely draft a WR and RB and the Ravens hardly cut loose draft picks within the first couple years, so it's far from a sure thing that Cierre Wood makes the roster

Bernard Pierce looked fantastic in his rookie season behind a decent O-line and he has been contantly compared to a player Kubiak fed the ball to as a bell cow for years in arian foster. My only concern with Pierce is if he can stay healthy, and if our line does indeed play as expected, he won't be getting tackled at the line of scrimmage by Dlineman and Lbers as often as last year. Cierre Wood is intriguing but has much to prove before even considering him as a handcuff, unless of course Rice does get charged and goes to jail or the Ravens decide to cut ties, because of a distracted and over used Ray Rice
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Re: Benard Pierce Value Check..

Postby ravensfan99 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:14 pm

rice's legal issues aside i dont completely understand all the love for pierce, especially with rumors of adding an additional rb in the draft. i understand the poor o-line play but only mcgahee had a worse ypc last year and pierce had 150 carries.


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