PPR is a farce!!!!!!

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.

What has PPR done for your fantasy football experience?

enhanced it immensely
41
75%
hmmm, haven't really noticed
10
18%
what the hell is ppr?!
4
7%
 
Total votes: 55

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meineymoe
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PPR is a farce!!!!!!

Postby meineymoe » Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:01 pm

okay, I've said it! The hottest trend in fantasy scoring, points per reception, is a sham!

It has been unilaterally instituted in numerous startup leagues across this land in an attempt to make WRs and TEs as valuable as RBs, and I say it has failed!!!

Look at LT last week - he is still the premiere fantasy player in the land! And who is your league's MVP this season? Most of you have to say Donovan McNabb, a QB!

Meanwhile, Torry Holt and his kiln are still the top of the crop at WR, but are not displacing RBs as fantasy team saviors.

I'm more intriqued, actually, but defensive scoring systems that make Bart Scott as valuable as Brett Favre.

So let's hear your paltry defenses of this latest fad. go ahead. -oo-

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Postby dlf_kenm » Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:58 pm

Great post. Never used PPR. Dont like it.

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Postby houdini » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:18 am

I disagree. I like having leagues with different rules and different scoring. I like having the ability to use WRs in flex slots, especially in weeks with six teams on bye.

Example: You've got Gore on bye and it's a flex slot. You can start Maurice Morris or Lee Evans. PPR: you'd start Evans. Not PPR: you'd start Morris. Which player is more valuable to his team? Which player would get the team more in trade? Evans is the answer to both. I prefer a league that makes the starting decisions a little closer to that reality. (No way to make that perfect, of course.)

Remember when Edge and Alexander were available in trade for just a 2nd round pick and neither garnered any serious interest? In the real NFL, RBs just aren't worth a lot. Yet in FF they are gold. This disconnect between the real NFL and fantasy isn't a great thing.

One thing I can say for sure: it's not a passing fad.

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Postby meineymoe » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:16 am

houdini wrote: One thing I can say for sure: it's not a passing fad.
(groan...)

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Postby dlf_kenm » Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:53 am

I think the desire to make FFB more like the real NFL is a bit of a fools errand. FFB is what it is - it's a game of chance and skill based upon player performances in the NFL. It is based on the NFL, but it is not the NFL, and thats OK. I think it's more important to create a set of rules which make sense within the context of the FFB game itself, rather than rules which stive to emulate something which is a completely different critter.

I actually misspoke when I said I have never used PPR before. I did use it in a crazy league I ran last year which had all kinds of odd scoring rules and weird playoff scenarios - we had something in the playoffs called pillaging where when you defeated a team in the playoffs you could grab whatever players you wanted off of the defeated team and use them through the remainder of the playoffs. Fun, unique, but not something for a real league. I view PPR in the same way as this - an interesting scoring rule to use in a league for an unusual diversion, but not something I'd want implemented in a serious long term league.

Just mho though...

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Re: PPR is a farce!!!!!!

Postby moneyballer » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:05 pm

meineymoe wrote:okay, I've said it! The hottest trend in fantasy scoring, points per reception, is a sham!

It has been unilaterally instituted in numerous startup leagues across this land in an attempt to make WRs and TEs as valuable as RBs, and I say it has failed!!!

Look at LT last week - he is still the premiere fantasy player in the land! And who is your league's MVP this season? Most of you have to say Donovan McNabb, a QB!

Meanwhile, Torry Holt and his kiln are still the top of the crop at WR, but are not displacing RBs as fantasy team saviors.

I'm more intriqued, actually, but defensive scoring systems that make Bart Scott as valuable as Brett Favre.

So let's hear your paltry defenses of this latest fad. go ahead. -oo-
Terry, Terry, Terry:

All I can say is I didnt hear you complaining ab0out PPR when Reggie Bush had those 11 receptions for you 2 weeks ago :o :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

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Re: PPR is a farce!!!!!!

Postby brice587 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:40 pm

moneyballer wrote:=

Terry, Terry, Terry:

All I can say is I didnt hear you complaining ab0out PPR when Reggie Bush had those 11 receptions for you 2 weeks ago :o :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:
I might be wrong, but it seems to me like the PPR for DLF scoring was your suggestion Terry. I guess the fad doesn't look as cool now? :lol: :roll:

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Postby houdini » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:19 pm

dlf_kenm wrote:I think the desire to make FFB more like the real NFL is a bit of a fools errand. FFB is what it is - it's a game of chance and skill based upon player performances in the NFL. It is based on the NFL, but it is not the NFL, and thats OK. I think it's more important to create a set of rules which make sense within the context of the FFB game itself, rather than rules which stive to emulate something which is a completely different critter.
I've seen two reasons listed why Dynasty is better than Redraft:
1) year-round FF
2) more like being a real GM

There are of course other ways to make FF year-round than to keep all your players for next year. You can have the Redraft draft in Feb - then there's the ability to make trades practically year-round. The first point isn't the real reason why Dynasty is better - it's the second one. Every team knows that a 23 year old Tomlinson is more valuable than a 30 year old Tomlinson. What remains missing is that a left tackle (or wide receiver or quarterback) is more valuable than a running back.

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Postby dlf_kenm » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:29 pm

A valid point, and in some respects it is good to emulate the real thing. Certainly owning a team long term is one of those facets which is a desirable aspect of dynasty play, and this enhancement does bring it a step closer to the real thing. But there I'd say the value of dynasty style play has less to do with it being LIKE the real thing and more to do with the inherent challenge involved in managing a team over the long term. Even if I were playing Fantasy Celebrities, I'd prefer a dynasty format vs. redraft, if only because it would add an additional element of challenge and fun to the game.

In the end, scoring systems can vary wildly, and it's up to each league do do what feels most right to them, and most importantly, is the most fun. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. If I were in a league which were voting on PPR, I'd vote no, but if the league went the other way I'd roll with it. Wouldn't be that huge of a deal, just have to adjust the strategy a bit.

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Postby Steelersfan » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:41 pm

I like ppr. Especially in leagues that use a flex position and your rb depth is shot either due to bye week or injury. This is the first year I have used it though.

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Postby houdini » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:04 pm

dlf_kenm wrote:In the end, scoring systems can vary wildly, and it's up to each league do do what feels most right to them, and most importantly, is the most fun. I don't think there is a right or wrong way.
Right, hence PPR ain't a farce. PPR is just one option of many for making the rules more intriguing.

There ought to be some articles/threads about FF game design in the offseason (or late in the season in anticipation of the offseason). What are ideas for rules that are different without really screwing things up? I've got a bunch, many of which I've implemented in various leagues.

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Postby dlf_kenm » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:24 pm

houdini wrote:
dlf_kenm wrote:In the end, scoring systems can vary wildly, and it's up to each league do do what feels most right to them, and most importantly, is the most fun. I don't think there is a right or wrong way.
Right, hence PPR ain't a farce. PPR is just one option of many for making the rules more intriguing.

There ought to be some articles/threads about FF game design in the offseason (or late in the season in anticipation of the offseason). What are ideas for rules that are different without really screwing things up? I've got a bunch, many of which I've implemented in various leagues.
Ya know, I think that's a really good idea. I've always enjoyed looking at and tinkering with scoring systems, league rules and such. I think that would make for a very interesting topic.

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Postby Steelersfan » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:09 pm

I would love to see an article on the different scoring systems that leagues use. I could always use some ideas to keep my league fresh.
Last edited by Steelersfan on Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby pacman_fl » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:26 pm

I love the PPR format, but agree it is a personal taste issue. In larger leagues (14+) and those with more starters (2R/3W/Flex for example), PPR brings in all new strategies both in drafting and weekly team management. RB's still reign supreme (for instance, in a 16 teamer I started 3RB/2WR last week, but with byes I have to go 1RB/4WR this week) and the projections/tiering needed really increases the advantage of good value based drafters IMO.

Long story short, the more astute fantasy owner generally gains an added advantage in this format. To the OP, sorry but it's not a "fad". Just like you won't find many TD only leagues left, I believe leagues will continue to expand to mimic the "real game" (where are those pancake block stats, penalty yards, etc?).

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Postby houdini » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:43 pm

meineymoe wrote:
houdini wrote: One thing I can say for sure: it's not a passing fad.
(groan...)
Eliminate the PPR leagues from your choice set and you still have plenty left over to choose from - I just don't see the problem.


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