Victor Cruz

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KMA
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Victor Cruz

Postby KMA » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:14 pm

Are the Vikings putting themselves in position to pry Cruz from the Giants?
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby joeday » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:22 pm

I think they are putting themselves in a position to force the giants to put up some bucks quicker than they wanted to.
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby dlf_jacobf » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:59 pm

Cruz isn't going anywhere. Giants will just need to match someone else's offer.

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby MR ROURKE » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:10 pm

I doubt anyone even negotiates with Cruz. As stated, Giants will match any offer, so it's a waste of time and resources for teams to talk to Cruz... unless they are offering some Al Davis crazy type money/contract.

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby Mangelo » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:12 pm

But if someone's willing to trade a boatload for harvin AND give him probably the biggest contract this offseason for a WR, why not Cruz?

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby jlasaf2007 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:24 pm

MR ROURKE wrote:I doubt anyone even negotiates with Cruz. As stated, Giants will match any offer, so it's a waste of time and resources for teams to talk to Cruz... unless they are offering some Al Davis crazy type money/contract.
Even if you don't think you'd get him, why not run up the price so that NYG has to open up the checkbook? If I can make another team in my division pay more - meaning they have less money to go after FAs I want - why wouldn't you?
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby Spinkso » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:27 pm

jlasaf2007 wrote: If I can make another team in my division pay more - meaning they have less money to go after FAs I want - why wouldn't you?
The Cowboys and Redskins are in cap hell, that would leave the Eagles. They may play chicken, then get stuck with a massive contract.

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby ccj » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:31 pm

Spinkso wrote:
jlasaf2007 wrote: If I can make another team in my division pay more - meaning they have less money to go after FAs I want - why wouldn't you?
The Cowboys and Redskins are in cap hell, that would leave the Eagles. They may play chicken, then get stuck with a massive contract.
And give up a 1st rounder.

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby KMA » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:35 pm

Cruz is better than anything coming out of the draft and they have the first from the Harvin trade.
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby MR ROURKE » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:49 pm

jlasaf2007 wrote:
MR ROURKE wrote:I doubt anyone even negotiates with Cruz. As stated, Giants will match any offer, so it's a waste of time and resources for teams to talk to Cruz... unless they are offering some Al Davis crazy type money/contract.
Even if you don't think you'd get him, why not run up the price so that NYG has to open up the checkbook? If I can make another team in my division pay more - meaning they have less money to go after FAs I want - why wouldn't you?
Because the time you waste doing that, you miss on working on bringing in players you can actually get on your team to help your team. The NFL eliminated that poison pill in RFA offers, so RFA's with high tenders don't move. They typically don't even get offers from other teams. From 2009 through 2012, 1 player (Mike Bell from Denver to Philly) has changed teams. There isn't much activity and not many offers as teams focus on helping their own team rather than helping their competition negotiate with the competition's players.

Why would you negotiate with V.Cruz as the competition. All you are doing is helping the Giants work out a contract with him. If they don't work out a contract, Cruz is likely a free agent next year, which give you the option to get Cruz and make the Giants worse. The last thing you want is to help the Giants come to an agreement with Cruz on a contract and that is all you are doing by making him an offer. That's not helping your team or hurting the Giants.

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby jlasaf2007 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:45 am

MR ROURKE wrote:
jlasaf2007 wrote:
MR ROURKE wrote:I doubt anyone even negotiates with Cruz. As stated, Giants will match any offer, so it's a waste of time and resources for teams to talk to Cruz... unless they are offering some Al Davis crazy type money/contract.
Even if you don't think you'd get him, why not run up the price so that NYG has to open up the checkbook? If I can make another team in my division pay more - meaning they have less money to go after FAs I want - why wouldn't you?
Because the time you waste doing that, you miss on working on bringing in players you can actually get on your team to help your team. The NFL eliminated that poison pill in RFA offers, so RFA's with high tenders don't move. They typically don't even get offers from other teams. From 2009 through 2012, 1 player (Mike Bell from Denver to Philly) has changed teams. There isn't much activity and not many offers as teams focus on helping their own team rather than helping their competition negotiate with the competition's players.

Why would you negotiate with V.Cruz as the competition. All you are doing is helping the Giants work out a contract with him. If they don't work out a contract, Cruz is likely a free agent next year, which give you the option to get Cruz and make the Giants worse. The last thing you want is to help the Giants come to an agreement with Cruz on a contract and that is all you are doing by making him an offer. That's not helping your team or hurting the Giants.
I guess I just don't agree with the "I'm probably not going to get him, so I'm not even going to try" midnset that you stated, and I doubt most GMs have that mindset. There's tons of personnel just to deal with scouting and negotiations...I really doubt it's a strain on resources.

So what if you set the price for them? You make them pay more now, instead of giving them another year at a discount and to try and negotiate a long term deal. Force their hand, make them spend now, and at worst, you get a pretty darn good WR for a 1st round pick.
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby MR ROURKE » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:20 am

jlasaf2007 wrote:
MR ROURKE wrote:
jlasaf2007 wrote: Even if you don't think you'd get him, why not run up the price so that NYG has to open up the checkbook? If I can make another team in my division pay more - meaning they have less money to go after FAs I want - why wouldn't you?
Because the time you waste doing that, you miss on working on bringing in players you can actually get on your team to help your team. The NFL eliminated that poison pill in RFA offers, so RFA's with high tenders don't move. They typically don't even get offers from other teams. From 2009 through 2012, 1 player (Mike Bell from Denver to Philly) has changed teams. There isn't much activity and not many offers as teams focus on helping their own team rather than helping their competition negotiate with the competition's players.

Why would you negotiate with V.Cruz as the competition. All you are doing is helping the Giants work out a contract with him. If they don't work out a contract, Cruz is likely a free agent next year, which give you the option to get Cruz and make the Giants worse. The last thing you want is to help the Giants come to an agreement with Cruz on a contract and that is all you are doing by making him an offer. That's not helping your team or hurting the Giants.
I guess I just don't agree with the "I'm probably not going to get him, so I'm not even going to try" midnset that you stated, and I doubt most GMs have that mindset. There's tons of personnel just to deal with scouting and negotiations...I really doubt it's a strain on resources.

So what if you set the price for them? You make them pay more now, instead of giving them another year at a discount and to try and negotiate a long term deal. Force their hand, make them spend now, and at worst, you get a pretty darn good WR for a 1st round pick.
I suppose anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure that V.Cruz won't get an offer from anyone. The reason he won't get an offer is because GM's think of it as doing the other teams work for them as I stated. Cruz is worth a first and signing to a nice deal. However, teams don't find it a good use of resources. If temas didn't see it as a waste of time, numerous teams should be making him and offer, but he'll likely get none even though the value is there. M.Wallace was a RFA last year, no offers because it's a waste of resources.

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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby Chris_R » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:22 am

What makes all you guys assume they will match any offer? If it was no big deal to just throw him a big contract he would have one already. I think it's a lot harder then you guys assume because Cruz wants paid like a big time WR and NYG aren't ready to commit to that. If another team wants to ante up the big dollars, I'm not sure why a majority of people just assume NY is going to pay it and not blink twice. If they were ready to give him 11-12 million per season he would have it already, but to assume it'd easily get done with Nicks contract still to go I'm not buying.
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby joeday » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:46 am

Chris_R wrote:What makes all you guys assume they will match any offer? If it was no big deal to just throw him a big contract he would have one already. I think it's a lot harder then you guys assume because Cruz wants paid like a big time WR and NYG aren't ready to commit to that. If another team wants to ante up the big dollars, I'm not sure why a majority of people just assume NY is going to pay it and not blink twice. If they were ready to give him 11-12 million per season he would have it already, but to assume it'd easily get done with Nicks contract still to go I'm not buying.
honestly I would be shocked if another team offers him 10-12M a year and pay the first round pick fee...seems like bad business, when Cruz himself is the perfect example of being able to get a top WR without spending a lot of money and a high draft pick.
BERLIN BOMBERS
1996 | 2005 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2017 – champion
1999 | 2000 | 2019 – runner - up

14 teams | 4 keepers | non ppr | est. 1996
potential 2020 keepers
QB
RB – Christian McCaffrey | Leonard Fournette
WR – DJ Moore | Courtland Sutton
TE

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2011 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 – champion
2008 | 2012 | 2014 | 2019 – runner - up

12 teams | 10 keepers | non ppr | est. 2001
potential 2020 keepers
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RB – Ezekiel Elliott | Aaron Jones | Dalvin Cook | Jamaal Williams
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Re: Victor Cruz

Postby dm1129 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:04 am

Chris_R wrote:What makes all you guys assume they will match any offer? If it was no big deal to just throw him a big contract he would have one already. I think it's a lot harder then you guys assume because Cruz wants paid like a big time WR and NYG aren't ready to commit to that. If another team wants to ante up the big dollars, I'm not sure why a majority of people just assume NY is going to pay it and not blink twice. If they were ready to give him 11-12 million per season he would have it already, but to assume it'd easily get done with Nicks contract still to go I'm not buying.
I have been thinking this as well. I am not an expert on the intricacies of NFL salary cap manipulation, but it seems Minnesota could possibly make a serious attempt to acquire Cruz. The only reason I think it might happen is because of Adrian Peterson. I think we all can agree that he is a special player, the type that does not come around very often. With that said, he is in his prime but the window for any RB is limited. The Vikings made the playoffs last year. If they were to draft a WR, it very likely would take a few years to develop under the best of circumstances as WR is a very difficult position to transition from college to the NFL. In essence, the Vikings would miss out on maximizing AP's peak years. So while I agree under normal circumstances that it would be unlikely that Cruz would be pried away from the Giants, I think there might be a surprise in this one unique case.
Last edited by dm1129 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.


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