Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

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Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby joeday » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:10 pm

If so, how much does this hurt Thomas and Decker?
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby kmbryant09 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:26 pm

Denver fan here - I don't think its going to happen.

Denver does have some cap room, but I think they'd rather spend big $$ on MLB, DT, CB, or OL before they spend big on a WR. I know the team, and Peyton, really likes Stokely and I imagine he'll be back in 2013 for one more year. The problem Denver faces in bringing in a high-priced FA WR is that both Decker & Thomas will be up for a new contract each of the next 2 years. They certainly can't pay for all 3 of them, and I imagine it would be a small slap-in-the-face if they paid Welker $8-10 million while Decker and Thomas are outplaying their rookie deals.

I imagine Denver will address the slot position via a cheap alternative or through the draft. I'd watch out for Danny Amendola (if he's affordable in the $4-5 million range) or Austin Collie. In fact, I'd be very surprised if Collie isn't signed by the Broncos.
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QB: K. Murray, B. Mayfield, K. Cousins, D. Lock
RB: M. Mack, P. Lindsay, D. Johnson, C. Edmonds, T. Pollard, B. Scott, G. Bernard, D. Thompson
WR: C. Godwin, O. Beckham Jr., K. Allen, A. Robinson, C. Kirk, Di. Johnson, Z. Pascal, J. Kumerow
TE: E. Engram, D. Waller, I. Smith Jr., J. Hollister

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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby joeday » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:17 pm

kmbryant09 wrote:Denver fan here - I don't think its going to happen.

Denver does have some cap room, but I think they'd rather spend big $$ on MLB, DT, CB, or OL before they spend big on a WR. I know the team, and Peyton, really likes Stokely and I imagine he'll be back in 2013 for one more year. The problem Denver faces in bringing in a high-priced FA WR is that both Decker & Thomas will be up for a new contract each of the next 2 years. They certainly can't pay for all 3 of them, and I imagine it would be a small slap-in-the-face if they paid Welker $8-10 million while Decker and Thomas are outplaying their rookie deals.

I imagine Denver will address the slot position via a cheap alternative or through the draft. I'd watch out for Danny Amendola (if he's affordable in the $4-5 million range) or Austin Collie. In fact, I'd be very surprised if Collie isn't signed by the Broncos.
Very good analysis! Thanks for the response.
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby whatadai » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:15 pm

I don't understand why they would...Decker and Welker are very similar players in my opinion. Did you read this somewhere or was it just an idea in your head? Just wondering how you came about the idea of why this might be plausible.
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby joeday » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:19 pm

whatadai wrote:I don't understand why they would...Decker and Welker are very similar players in my opinion. Did you read this somewhere or was it just an idea in your head? Just wondering how you came about the idea of why this might be plausible.
I've seen the rumor a few places
BERLIN BOMBERS
1996 | 2005 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2017 – champion
1999 | 2000 | 2019 – runner - up

14 teams | 4 keepers | non ppr | est. 1996
potential 2020 keepers
QB
RB – Christian McCaffrey | Leonard Fournette
WR – DJ Moore | Courtland Sutton
TE

ROCKY MOUNTAIN MASTODONS
2011 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 – champion
2008 | 2012 | 2014 | 2019 – runner - up

12 teams | 10 keepers | non ppr | est. 2001
potential 2020 keepers
QB – Deshaun Watson
RB – Ezekiel Elliott | Aaron Jones | Dalvin Cook | Jamaal Williams
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby BuckeyeNation » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:26 pm

Ive heard this a while back as well and I don't see it happening. If it does happen, I think it's a substantial hit to Decker's value.
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby kmbryant09 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:12 am

whatadai wrote:I don't understand why they would...Decker and Welker are very similar players in my opinion. Did you read this somewhere or was it just an idea in your head? Just wondering how you came about the idea of why this might be plausible.
What do Decker and Welker have in common besides being white WR's?

Welker is 5'9 185 LBs
Decker is 6'3 218 LBs

Welker plays solely out of the slot, and is a quick-twitch WR who creates (arguably) the most separation in the league, particularly on underneath routes.

Decker has played some slot (pre-Peyton Manning), but played solely on the outside in 2012. He's not particularly quick, but he's a very big WR who can use physicality to beat a CB - similar to Anquan Boldin (but faster).

They are completely, completely different WR's.
10-team/.5 PPR/5 Pts per Passing TD. Start 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLEX (rb/wr/te)
QB: K. Murray, B. Mayfield, K. Cousins, D. Lock
RB: M. Mack, P. Lindsay, D. Johnson, C. Edmonds, T. Pollard, B. Scott, G. Bernard, D. Thompson
WR: C. Godwin, O. Beckham Jr., K. Allen, A. Robinson, C. Kirk, Di. Johnson, Z. Pascal, J. Kumerow
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby joeday » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 am

kmbryant09 wrote:
whatadai wrote:I don't understand why they would...Decker and Welker are very similar players in my opinion. Did you read this somewhere or was it just an idea in your head? Just wondering how you came about the idea of why this might be plausible.
What do Decker and Welker have in common besides being white WR's?

Welker is 5'9 185 LBs
Decker is 6'3 218 LBs

Welker plays solely out of the slot, and is a quick-twitch WR who creates (arguably) the most separation in the league, particularly on underneath routes.

Decker has played some slot (pre-Peyton Manning), but played solely on the outside in 2012. He's not particularly quick, but he's a very big WR who can use physicality to beat a CB - similar to Anquan Boldin (but faster).

They are completely, completely different WR's.
They are...Decker is more of a Jordy Nelson (if we are going with the white theme lol)
BERLIN BOMBERS
1996 | 2005 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2017 – champion
1999 | 2000 | 2019 – runner - up

14 teams | 4 keepers | non ppr | est. 1996
potential 2020 keepers
QB
RB – Christian McCaffrey | Leonard Fournette
WR – DJ Moore | Courtland Sutton
TE

ROCKY MOUNTAIN MASTODONS
2011 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 – champion
2008 | 2012 | 2014 | 2019 – runner - up

12 teams | 10 keepers | non ppr | est. 2001
potential 2020 keepers
QB – Deshaun Watson
RB – Ezekiel Elliott | Aaron Jones | Dalvin Cook | Jamaal Williams
WR – DeAndre Hopkins | Davante Adams | Odell Beckham Jr. | Christian Kirk
TE – Darren Waller

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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby kmbryant09 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:05 am

joeday wrote: They are...Decker is more of a Jordy Nelson (if we are going with the white theme lol)
Haha, that's actually a pretty good comparison. I think Nelson might be a bit faster/accelerates quicker. But overall good comparison - and not just because they are both white!
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RB: M. Mack, P. Lindsay, D. Johnson, C. Edmonds, T. Pollard, B. Scott, G. Bernard, D. Thompson
WR: C. Godwin, O. Beckham Jr., K. Allen, A. Robinson, C. Kirk, Di. Johnson, Z. Pascal, J. Kumerow
TE: E. Engram, D. Waller, I. Smith Jr., J. Hollister

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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby whatadai » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:45 am

joeday wrote:
kmbryant09 wrote:
whatadai wrote:I don't understand why they would...Decker and Welker are very similar players in my opinion. Did you read this somewhere or was it just an idea in your head? Just wondering how you came about the idea of why this might be plausible.
What do Decker and Welker have in common besides being white WR's?

Welker is 5'9 185 LBs
Decker is 6'3 218 LBs

Welker plays solely out of the slot, and is a quick-twitch WR who creates (arguably) the most separation in the league, particularly on underneath routes.

Decker has played some slot (pre-Peyton Manning), but played solely on the outside in 2012. He's not particularly quick, but he's a very big WR who can use physicality to beat a CB - similar to Anquan Boldin (but faster).

They are completely, completely different WR's.
They are...Decker is more of a Jordy Nelson (if we are going with the white theme lol)
They're similar to me with their route running ability and ability to create separation. Just because Decker can also play on the outside and is 6 inches taller doesn't mean they must have different skillsets. I believe Decker would be even better in the slot with Manning. I've always seen Decker as a better Welker. Decker's quickness is underrated.
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HC: B. Belichick, D. Quinn
QB: A. Rodgers, D. Carr, N. Foles
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WR: D. Bryant, D. Thomas, D. Hopkins, A. Cooper, A. Robinson, V. Cruz, T. Smith, C. Johnson, B. Quick, J. Gordon
TE: R. Gronkowski
PK: N. Novak, D. Carpenter
PN: J. Hekker
DT: G. Atkins, S. Marks
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LB: J. Mayo, B. Cushing, J. Freeman, C. Barwin, V. Rey, B. Orakpo, A. Okafor, D. Washington
CB: J. McCourty, A. Verner, B. Browner
S: E. Weddle, T. McDonald, T. Gipson, D. Bucannon
OL: T. Armstead, S. Vollmer, K. Holmes, T. Frederick, M. Unger, J. Asamoah, J. Sitton, A. Smith, J. Troutman, M. Yanda, L. Warford

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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby kmbryant09 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:52 pm

whatadai wrote:
joeday wrote:
kmbryant09 wrote: What do Decker and Welker have in common besides being white WR's?

Welker is 5'9 185 LBs
Decker is 6'3 218 LBs

Welker plays solely out of the slot, and is a quick-twitch WR who creates (arguably) the most separation in the league, particularly on underneath routes.

Decker has played some slot (pre-Peyton Manning), but played solely on the outside in 2012. He's not particularly quick, but he's a very big WR who can use physicality to beat a CB - similar to Anquan Boldin (but faster).

They are completely, completely different WR's.
They are...Decker is more of a Jordy Nelson (if we are going with the white theme lol)
They're similar to me with their route running ability and ability to create separation. Just because Decker can also play on the outside and is 6 inches taller doesn't mean they must have different skillsets. I believe Decker would be even better in the slot with Manning. I've always seen Decker as a better Welker. Decker's quickness is underrated.
No, its really not.

I've watched every 2012 Broncos game at least 3 times by now, and Eric Decker is a good WR. He's big, physical, strong, and can make catches in traffic, particularly by snagging the ball at its highest point. He caught numerous "fade passes" for TD's and reeled in a half dozen or so big catches down the sideline with a CB draped all over him. Does that sound like Welker at all? No - Welker lives underneath and in the middle of the field. He relies essentially 100% on his quickness to get open. The guy has incredible footwork and I truly believe Welker is the quickest short-area player in the league. You simply can't guard him 1-on-1 out of the slot because he can beat you to either direction.

Decker very rarely uses "quickness" to get open. He relies more on precision + physicality, and of course having Peyton tell him what route to run every play also helps. He's a solid route-runner, no doubt about that, but that's where the comparison ends with Welker.

If a 6'3, 218 pound physical WR was also as quick as Wes Welker (as you seem to imply) - that WR would be unstoppable. Decker is good, but hardly unstoppable. He's extremely different than Wes Welker.
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RB: M. Mack, P. Lindsay, D. Johnson, C. Edmonds, T. Pollard, B. Scott, G. Bernard, D. Thompson
WR: C. Godwin, O. Beckham Jr., K. Allen, A. Robinson, C. Kirk, Di. Johnson, Z. Pascal, J. Kumerow
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby will6779 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:38 pm

I dont see denver paying that much for a wr. There are plenty of slot guys out there that are more cost efficient.
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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby whatadai » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:41 pm

kmbryant09 wrote:
whatadai wrote:
joeday wrote: They are...Decker is more of a Jordy Nelson (if we are going with the white theme lol)
They're similar to me with their route running ability and ability to create separation. Just because Decker can also play on the outside and is 6 inches taller doesn't mean they must have different skillsets. I believe Decker would be even better in the slot with Manning. I've always seen Decker as a better Welker. Decker's quickness is underrated.
No, its really not.

I've watched every 2012 Broncos game at least 3 times by now, and Eric Decker is a good WR. He's big, physical, strong, and can make catches in traffic, particularly by snagging the ball at its highest point. He caught numerous "fade passes" for TD's and reeled in a half dozen or so big catches down the sideline with a CB draped all over him. Does that sound like Welker at all? No - Welker lives underneath and in the middle of the field. He relies essentially 100% on his quickness to get open. The guy has incredible footwork and I truly believe Welker is the quickest short-area player in the league. You simply can't guard him 1-on-1 out of the slot because he can beat you to either direction.

Decker very rarely uses "quickness" to get open. He relies more on precision + physicality, and of course having Peyton tell him what route to run every play also helps. He's a solid route-runner, no doubt about that, but that's where the comparison ends with Welker.

If a 6'3, 218 pound physical WR was also as quick as Wes Welker (as you seem to imply) - that WR would be unstoppable. Decker is good, but hardly unstoppable. He's extremely different than Wes Welker.
So you watch all the 2012 games where Decker didn't play in the slot and use that as your argument that he's not as good or similar to Welker...in the slot.

Just because Decker would be dominant in the slot because of his size doesn't mean that he's not quick. Welker also relies on precision too and he definitely relies on physicality after the catch, even for a small guy, so I'm not sure how that's not similar to Decker. The reason he didn't play in the slot in 2012 as much was because they got Stokley.
10 Team .5 PPR Salary Cap Dynasty (Starters in Bold)
HC: B. Belichick, D. Quinn
QB: A. Rodgers, D. Carr, N. Foles
HB: L. McCoy, A. Foster, T. Mason, B. Sankey, I. Crowell, C. Ivory, S. Ridley
WR: D. Bryant, D. Thomas, D. Hopkins, A. Cooper, A. Robinson, V. Cruz, T. Smith, C. Johnson, B. Quick, J. Gordon
TE: R. Gronkowski
PK: N. Novak, D. Carpenter
PN: J. Hekker
DT: G. Atkins, S. Marks
DE: R. Quinn, O. Vernon, C. Johnson, J. Hughes, V. Beasley, J. Smith
LB: J. Mayo, B. Cushing, J. Freeman, C. Barwin, V. Rey, B. Orakpo, A. Okafor, D. Washington
CB: J. McCourty, A. Verner, B. Browner
S: E. Weddle, T. McDonald, T. Gipson, D. Bucannon
OL: T. Armstead, S. Vollmer, K. Holmes, T. Frederick, M. Unger, J. Asamoah, J. Sitton, A. Smith, J. Troutman, M. Yanda, L. Warford

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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby joeday » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:34 pm

ugh, looks like the Pats arent going to resign him...I am nervous as a major DemThom investor! lol
BERLIN BOMBERS
1996 | 2005 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2017 – champion
1999 | 2000 | 2019 – runner - up

14 teams | 4 keepers | non ppr | est. 1996
potential 2020 keepers
QB
RB – Christian McCaffrey | Leonard Fournette
WR – DJ Moore | Courtland Sutton
TE

ROCKY MOUNTAIN MASTODONS
2011 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 – champion
2008 | 2012 | 2014 | 2019 – runner - up

12 teams | 10 keepers | non ppr | est. 2001
potential 2020 keepers
QB – Deshaun Watson
RB – Ezekiel Elliott | Aaron Jones | Dalvin Cook | Jamaal Williams
WR – DeAndre Hopkins | Davante Adams | Odell Beckham Jr. | Christian Kirk
TE – Darren Waller

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Re: Any chance Welker goes to Denver?

Postby kmbryant09 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:40 pm

Whatadai -

I think you just assumed that Welker & Decker are similar players because they are both white.

Seriously, how can you think that the 2 players are similar when they are separated by 6 inches and 40 pounds? And they play different positions! Granted, Decker has seen limited snaps in the slot in the past, but if Peyton Manning is using him as an outside WR, then he's best suited as an outside WR.

I essentially have watched about 3,000 snaps of Eric Decker over the past 12 months. And probably about 1,000 snaps of Welker in 2012 as I live in Boston. Decker is a big, physical WR who uses his physicality to beat CB's. Welker is anything but that. Please enlighten me as to how Welker uses his physicality to beat opposing defenses. HE DOESN'T! In fact, the scouting report shows that the way to beat Welker (and the Pats) is to jam him at the line and be physical with him. He's limited because of his small stature, and can't get in & out of his breaks when he's being jammed & pushed around.

Look, Decker is a solid WR. He's not slow, he's not the "opposite of quick". But his game is completely different than Welker's game. I really don't see how you could possibly think otherwise. Another poster compared Decker to Jordy Nelson, and that's a pretty good comparison. And to stick with GB WR's, I think Welker compares fairly similarly to Randall Cobb (but not quite the athlete). Go watch Green Bay and let me know if you think Jordy Nelson & Randall Cobb are similar players.
10-team/.5 PPR/5 Pts per Passing TD. Start 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLEX (rb/wr/te)
QB: K. Murray, B. Mayfield, K. Cousins, D. Lock
RB: M. Mack, P. Lindsay, D. Johnson, C. Edmonds, T. Pollard, B. Scott, G. Bernard, D. Thompson
WR: C. Godwin, O. Beckham Jr., K. Allen, A. Robinson, C. Kirk, Di. Johnson, Z. Pascal, J. Kumerow
TE: E. Engram, D. Waller, I. Smith Jr., J. Hollister

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