Kaep and Wilson

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KMA
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Kaep and Wilson

Postby KMA » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:46 pm

I would prefer this question be answered by owners not wearing Kaep and Wilson colored shades.

After one season is it safe to call both of these guys great? I have seen the word thrown around. Can we expect regression once teams have a better fix on them? Or are they second year proof and destined to become numbers one and two in fantasy rankings. Again looking for objective responses. Some of you have Koolaid stains around the lips and I would like to hear from those with no dog in the fight! Honest question here!
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby 49ersFaithful80 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:44 pm

If people can routinely call Cam Newton great then I have no problem with people calling Russell Wilson or Kaepernick future hall of famers.

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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby whatadai » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:55 pm

I think Kaepernick will be at least a borderline QB1 next season and Russell Wilson will be a good QB2. The way I see it, if Jenkins pans out or SF gets a legitimate deep threat across from Crabtree, Kaepernick could use his big arm to put up even more points than before. The read option simplified the offense for him, but he has a great QB coach in Harbaugh, who can coach him up and cater the offense to help Kaepernick's weaknesses. Yes, defenses will have 10 full games on him now, but it's not like SF has an idiot in Harbaugh. Kaepernick also has two intangibles that Smith doesn't have, leadership and confidence, and those two things are HUGE for a starting QB. The thing with Kaepernick fantasy-wise is, barring injury, his floor is a strong QB2, but his ceiling is a top 3 QB. That is why his value is so high, people are paying for the gamble that he pans out as a top QB3, and if they're right, in hindsight they would have underpaid. Plus, he's only 25 years old and everyone loves him, his leash is very long and he'll be starting for years and still has plenty of time to develop. That's right, develop, the guy isn't close to hitting his ceiling yet and he already looked great.

As for Russell Wilson...I don't see any hype on him at all?
10 Team .5 PPR Salary Cap Dynasty (Starters in Bold)
HC: B. Belichick, D. Quinn
QB: A. Rodgers, D. Carr, N. Foles
HB: L. McCoy, A. Foster, T. Mason, B. Sankey, I. Crowell, C. Ivory, S. Ridley
WR: D. Bryant, D. Thomas, D. Hopkins, A. Cooper, A. Robinson, V. Cruz, T. Smith, C. Johnson, B. Quick, J. Gordon
TE: R. Gronkowski
PK: N. Novak, D. Carpenter
PN: J. Hekker
DT: G. Atkins, S. Marks
DE: R. Quinn, O. Vernon, C. Johnson, J. Hughes, V. Beasley, J. Smith
LB: J. Mayo, B. Cushing, J. Freeman, C. Barwin, V. Rey, B. Orakpo, A. Okafor, D. Washington
CB: J. McCourty, A. Verner, B. Browner
S: E. Weddle, T. McDonald, T. Gipson, D. Bucannon
OL: T. Armstead, S. Vollmer, K. Holmes, T. Frederick, M. Unger, J. Asamoah, J. Sitton, A. Smith, J. Troutman, M. Yanda, L. Warford

PS: RB J. Allen, WR P. Dorsett, WR K. Bell, WR B. Coleman, DE J. Sheard, DE D. Fowler, DE L. Webster, LB S. Anthony

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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby Cthulhu » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:14 pm

They are both amazing young talents. Kaep is such an incredible athelete and he really impressed me with him arm ... I knew he had a cannon but it was his accuracy that really surprised me. I do have some reservations about Kaep staying healthy long term. Here's the thing, Wilson runs smarter than Kaep ... Wilson gets what he can then slides or get out of bounds. This smart runing trait makes me think Wilson may be the better long-term value. Gun to the head I'd take Kaep, but I'm still a bit concerned that his running style puts him a bit more at risk to injury at least compared to Wilson.

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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby whatadai » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:17 pm

Cthulhu wrote:They are both amazing young talents. Kaep is such an incredible athelete and he really impressed me with him arm ... I knew he had a cannon but it was his accuracy that really surprised me. I do have some reservations about Kaep staying healthy long term. Here's the thing, Wilson runs smarter than Kaep ... Wilson gets what he can then slides or get out of bounds. This smart runing trait makes me think Wilson may be the better long-term value. Gun to the head I'd take Kaep, but still a bit concerned that his running style puts him a bit more at risk to injury at least compared to Wilson.
But his running style is why he's valued more than Wilson fantasy-wise. There are also other factors, but that's a huge part of it too.

Plus...LOOK AT HIM next to Alex Smith and Scott Tolzien...bleep beast compared to them:
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10 Team .5 PPR Salary Cap Dynasty (Starters in Bold)
HC: B. Belichick, D. Quinn
QB: A. Rodgers, D. Carr, N. Foles
HB: L. McCoy, A. Foster, T. Mason, B. Sankey, I. Crowell, C. Ivory, S. Ridley
WR: D. Bryant, D. Thomas, D. Hopkins, A. Cooper, A. Robinson, V. Cruz, T. Smith, C. Johnson, B. Quick, J. Gordon
TE: R. Gronkowski
PK: N. Novak, D. Carpenter
PN: J. Hekker
DT: G. Atkins, S. Marks
DE: R. Quinn, O. Vernon, C. Johnson, J. Hughes, V. Beasley, J. Smith
LB: J. Mayo, B. Cushing, J. Freeman, C. Barwin, V. Rey, B. Orakpo, A. Okafor, D. Washington
CB: J. McCourty, A. Verner, B. Browner
S: E. Weddle, T. McDonald, T. Gipson, D. Bucannon
OL: T. Armstead, S. Vollmer, K. Holmes, T. Frederick, M. Unger, J. Asamoah, J. Sitton, A. Smith, J. Troutman, M. Yanda, L. Warford

PS: RB J. Allen, WR P. Dorsett, WR K. Bell, WR B. Coleman, DE J. Sheard, DE D. Fowler, DE L. Webster, LB S. Anthony

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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby KMA » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:31 pm

In my league the Vick owner plucked Kaep and Wilson off waivers once Vick went down and before they blew up. Now he owns both of them.
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby Cthulhu » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:55 pm

I can buy the argument that Kaep's monster size should help him avoid an RG3-type fate and that Wilson's smart running style is most likely born from necessity of being small. Regardless, I can't shake the feeling that Wilson will likely be taking significantly fewer hits than CK and that may translate to higher level of long-term reliability and\or career longevity.

The risk (potential higher rate of injury) / reward (ridiculous FF production) of zone read QBs is going to be big topic of FF discussion over the next few years.

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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby MR ROURKE » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:08 pm

I like Wilson. Top QB prospect that only fell in the draft due to his size and the QB size doesn't matter as much in the west coast offense as it does in others. I don't trust Kaep. With several offenses all using aspects of the pistol, it will be a focus of defensive coordinators this year. The pistol won't be that foreign to defenses next year and defensive players will have stay with your assignment drilled into their heads. Plus, I trust Wilson a lot more with the additional playbook and responsibilities QB's get in their second year of starting.

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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby KMA » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:35 pm

What gets me about this is the propensity to annoint them as top 5 guys after limited exposure. Im not knocking their talent. Im just of the opinion that you need a little more hair under your chin before you are grouped with the games elite. It amazes me how fluky Staffords season was in 2011 but how legit these two were. Perhaps they are legit. But it takes more than one season to know this IMO? Trent Dilfer looked respectable with a solid defense supporting him. I will say that I have Kaep just a tad higher than Dilfer. Seriously though, I would feel more comfortable after seeing them do it again (and better) next season. As for me, they are wait and sees. Tremendous upside but not worthy of Aaron Rodgers-Brees status just yet.
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby will6779 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:46 pm

To early to call them great. Cause there not yet. Great young prospects? Yes. Lets see what happens next year.
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Start- qb,2-3rb,3-4wr,1-2te,pk, 2-3 dl, 2-3 lb, 2-3 db
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RB- spiller,sproles,mathews,ingram p thomas, woodhead, f jackson, k davis, freeman
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby SpaderDude » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:17 pm

I owned them both as I got them both off the waiver-wire, last year and this year respectively. If I had to take one over the other, I'd lean towards Kaepernick for the upside. In reality, I sold them both in separate deals.

Sold Wilson for a future #1 that in my opinion will be a top 3 pick. Probably could have gotten a little more, but in a ten-team league, where QB value is a bit lower, I was pretty happy with it. My overall goal had been to amass a few future #1s any way.

I also sold Kaepernick in a deal that got me Stafford. While running QBs are great for fantasy, they don't seem to last. I'll take my chances with Stafford throwing to Calvin and be happy with that.
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10 Team Dynasty, Roster-30, (must contain 2K & 2Def.) Starters: 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1K, 1D

Stafford, Eli, Rivers
Forte, TRich, D. Wilson, Stewart, Mark Ingram, J. Bell, Christine Michael, Mike James, Tolbert
Calvin, AJG, Julio, Antonio Brown, Gordon, Da'Rick, Streater
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Brees, Big Ben
Forte, TRich, D. Wilson, Ingram, Stewart, C. Michael, Franklin, D. Brown, Helu, B. Rainey, CJ Anderson, Tolbert
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby Chris_R » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:29 pm

Their in my top 10, not top five. I'm not concerned with either guy because both are very accurate QB's and high character guys. The upside is also there with them every season for a high scorer and I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe they aren't legit. I know they aren't better QB's in real life then a guy like Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger but I'd easily take both on my fantasy team as a starter over the likes of some of those guys.
12 Team ppr Dynasty IDP
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, RB/WR, WR/TE, 1 TE, 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 2 DL/LB/DB

QB: Andrew Luck/
RB: Nick Chubb/Josh Jacobs/D'Onta Foreman/Chris Warren
WR: Odell Beckham/Juju Smith-Schuster/Sammy Watkins/Michael Gallup/Kenny Stills/Antonio Calloway/Marques Valdes Scantling/Dante Pettis/Trequan Smith/Eq St Brown/J'Mon Moore
TE: Trey Burton/Dallas Goedert/Gerald Everett

DL: Joey Bosa/Khalil Mack
LB: Leighton Vander Esch/Tremaine Edmunds/Blake Martinez/Telvin Smith/Sean Lee
DB: Earl Thomas/Keanu Neal/Minkah Fitzpatrick/John Johnson


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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby RonW15 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:19 am

georg013 wrote:What gets me about this is the propensity to annoint them as top 5 guys after limited exposure. Im not knocking their talent. Im just of the opinion that you need a little more hair under your chin before you are grouped with the games elite. It amazes me how fluky Staffords season was in 2011 but how legit these two were. Perhaps they are legit. But it takes more than one season to know this IMO? Trent Dilfer looked respectable with a solid defense supporting him. I will say that I have Kaep just a tad higher than Dilfer. Seriously though, I would feel more comfortable after seeing them do it again (and better) next season. As for me, they are wait and sees. Tremendous upside but not worthy of Aaron Rodgers-Brees status just yet.
No one knows for sure they will be top 5, but it's fantasy football we all use their past performance to project what they will do in the future. In the second half of the season Wilson was top 5 that's not saying it will continue but I feel like using that is a good way to evaluate them. You can wait and see if they do it again next yea but if they do their prices will go up
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QBs R. Wilson, Kaepernick, Locker
RBs A. Morris, Hunter, R. Williams
WRs AJ Green, D. Thomas, V. Jackson, V. Brown, K. Wright, Givens, A.J. Jenkins, Kerley, Quick, T.Young
TEs Fleener, Gonzalez
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby pntgvn2399 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:50 am

Kaep has the help around him with #1 WR and #1 TE whereas Wilson doesn't have either.. They completely opened up the offense for Kaep when he took over where Wilson was reigned back quite a bit and more of a game manager for the year.. I like the outlook on both of their futures actually and I can't really pick between them.. I have both though so that is ok! :)
12 Team PPR IDP
Start 1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex 3-4-4 D
QB- P. Manning, Wilson, Carr
RB- McCoy, Foster, Ball, Vereen, Tate, Ivory, C. Michael, L Murray
WR- Megatron, Dez, Watkins, Gordon, Cooks, Quick, Nicks, Bowe, Shorts, M Wilson
TE- Cameron, Donnel, Green
DT- Jernigan
DE- Campbell, Vernon, Nincovich, Casey, Griffen
LB- David, Shazier, Smith, Tulloch, McClain, Riley, Collins, Alonzo (IR)
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S- Pollard, Landry, Chancellor, Mathieu, McDonald

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Start 1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex 3-4-4 D
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RB- Lynch, Bernard Vereen, J. Bell, Ivory, Michael, Robinson, L Murray
WR- Julio, Mi. Floyd, Crabtree, Woods, Lee, Nicks
TE- Graham, Green, Wright
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Re: Kaep and Wilson

Postby Chris_R » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:24 am

49ersFaithful80 wrote:If people can routinely call Cam Newton great then I have no problem with people calling Russell Wilson or Kaepernick future hall of famers.

What is your obsession with Cam Newton? I have yet to see one thread or post you've made about Kaepernick without brining Cam Newton into it. All he's done is come in from day 1, shatter records, be a top 5 fantasy QB consistently, and the way he finished down the stretch this past season was nearly flawless.


In 2 full seasons he's shown he can hold a 60% completion percentage, 4k yard passer, QB rating of 85, 20 passing TD's, 10 rushing, with 700 rushing yards to boot. That's roughly 4700 total yards and 30 TD's through two season. Yet you make the ridiculous comment "if people routinely call him great then these guys are hall of famers". You make yourself look worse and worse everytime you make a comment about Cam. You were wrong, you are still wrong, it's just time to let it go. He isn't, and doesn't have to be as accurate as Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, nobody is. But he is a great passer and great player, while being an elite fantasy QB with 2 full seasons of data and he is still 23 years old.


You had an original stance on him, it was way off base. That's fine, but everytime you try and stick to an argument that never made sense to begin with it makes it worse. Nobody should even have to waste their time explaining why Cam is a really good QB, the fact that you want him to throw for 5000 passing yards with a 95% completion percentage is quite ridiculous. How many QB's can you find that have had more success then Cam in their first 2 years? There is mountains of data to prove he is great but I guess he still sucks since you said he did a long time ago so that has to still be right.
12 Team ppr Dynasty IDP
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, RB/WR, WR/TE, 1 TE, 2 DL, 2 LB, 2 DB, 2 DL/LB/DB

QB: Andrew Luck/
RB: Nick Chubb/Josh Jacobs/D'Onta Foreman/Chris Warren
WR: Odell Beckham/Juju Smith-Schuster/Sammy Watkins/Michael Gallup/Kenny Stills/Antonio Calloway/Marques Valdes Scantling/Dante Pettis/Trequan Smith/Eq St Brown/J'Mon Moore
TE: Trey Burton/Dallas Goedert/Gerald Everett

DL: Joey Bosa/Khalil Mack
LB: Leighton Vander Esch/Tremaine Edmunds/Blake Martinez/Telvin Smith/Sean Lee
DB: Earl Thomas/Keanu Neal/Minkah Fitzpatrick/John Johnson


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