Jalen Hurts: What's the verdict?

[halfbaked88]

People always seem point to Josh Allen and say, see QBs can make drastic leaps... What college did he go to? The University of Wyoming.

He actually had a good reason for not being NFL ready Year one. And that likely was the reason for the giant gap between what we first saw and what we see now.

Ultimately, Josh Allen is an outlier. You don't point to outliers and say that's possible with optimism. You see the outlier and say it's highly unlikely that happens again. Same thing with Brady with the late round pick, Peyton/Aikman with the high INTs year 1, etc these arguments are logical fallacies that are much more likely to disprove your argument than make it.

Hurts has improved. On a different team I think he has shown enough to be given another year.

But this is the Philadelphia Eagles. And Howie Roseman. I'm not gonna go over everything I went over in the last post, but "if you know you know."

This isn't a happy-go-lucky-give-em-some-help franchise. They aren't investing three 1sts in some combo of OL, WR, DEF to help their buddy out.

They are drafting another QB. 100 percent. It's actually the smart move. Remember this isn't dependent on how the Eagles finish. **They have Miami's pick.**

That new QB then has 1st round draft capital: and this -highly emotional- win now fan-base will demand that we spent a 1st rounder on a QB therefore we have to play him before the season's over. "Let's see what we have" "we still lost the division" "need a spark" etc etc etc

I don't know how anyone can reconcile that a team with three 1st round picks isn't drafting a QB...
.
.
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Other than they don't know the Philadelphia Eagles.

They completely turned on the only HC to get them a football championship in nearly 60 years in what seemed like a year and a half. You think they're giving Hurts time? You have to know they're drafting another QB. Don't you??

[ThunderTung]

People always seem point to Josh Allen and say, see QBs can make drastic leaps... What college did he go to? The University of Wyoming.

He actually had a good reason for not being NFL ready Year one. And that likely was the reason for the giant gap between what we first saw and what we see now.

Ultimately, Josh Allen is an outlier. You don't point to outliers and say that's possible with optimism. You see the outlier and say it's highly unlikely that happens again. Same thing with Brady with the late round pick, Peyton/Aikman with the high INTs year 1, etc these arguments are logical fallacies that are much more likely to disprove your argument than make it.

Hurts has improved. On a different team I think he has shown enough to be given another year.

But this is the Philadelphia Eagles. And Howie Roseman. I'm not gonna go over everything I went over in the last post, but "if you know you know."

This isn't a happy-go-lucky-give-em-some-help franchise. They aren't investing three 1sts in some combo of OL, WR, DEF to help their buddy out.

They are drafting another QB. 100 percent. It's actually the smart move. Remember this isn't dependent on how the Eagles finish. **They have Miami's pick.**

That new QB then has 1st round draft capital: and this -highly emotional- win now fan-base will demand that we spent a 1st rounder on a QB therefore we have to play him before the season's over. "Let's see what we have" "we still lost the division" "need a spark" etc etc etc

I don't know how anyone can reconcile that a team with three 1st round picks isn't drafting a QB...
.
.
.
Other than they don't know the Philadelphia Eagles.

They completely turned on the only HC to get them a football championship in nearly 60 years in what seemed like a year and a half. You think they're giving Hurts time? You have to know they're drafting another QB. Don't you??

Not only that, this weak QB class gives you the perfect opportunity to load up elsewhere and give Hurts another year

[halfbaked88]

People always seem point to Josh Allen and say, see QBs can make drastic leaps... What college did he go to? The University of Wyoming.

He actually had a good reason for not being NFL ready Year one. And that likely was the reason for the giant gap between what we first saw and what we see now.

Ultimately, Josh Allen is an outlier. You don't point to outliers and say that's possible with optimism. You see the outlier and say it's highly unlikely that happens again. Same thing with Brady with the late round pick, Peyton/Aikman with the high INTs year 1, etc these arguments are logical fallacies that are much more likely to disprove your argument than make it.

Hurts has improved. On a different team I think he has shown enough to be given another year.

But this is the Philadelphia Eagles. And Howie Roseman. I'm not gonna go over everything I went over in the last post, but "if you know you know."

This isn't a happy-go-lucky-give-em-some-help franchise. They aren't investing three 1sts in some combo of OL, WR, DEF to help their buddy out.

They are drafting another QB. 100 percent. It's actually the smart move. Remember this isn't dependent on how the Eagles finish. **They have Miami's pick.**

That new QB then has 1st round draft capital: and this -highly emotional- win now fan-base will demand that we spent a 1st rounder on a QB therefore we have to play him before the season's over. "Let's see what we have" "we still lost the division" "need a spark" etc etc etc

I don't know how anyone can reconcile that a team with three 1st round picks isn't drafting a QB...
.
.
.
Other than they don't know the Philadelphia Eagles.

They completely turned on the only HC to get them a football championship in nearly 60 years in what seemed like a year and a half. You think they're giving Hurts time? You have to know they're drafting another QB. Don't you??

Not only that, this weak QB class gives you the perfect opportunity to load up elsewhere and give Hurts another year

A weak class is the consensus in the fantasy football community. We can sit here in our comfy chairs and say yeah just skip this years class. Ez

The NFL has hundreds of jobs on the line. Head coaches don't have the luxury of waiting. Absolutely no one in the draft room this year is gonna be thinking that these QBs aren't gonna score me fantasy points. If you need a QB for your football team you're taking one.

Is Nick Siriani comfortable losing his multi-million dollar job, piggy backing on Hurts legs, crossing his fingers and hoping for the best?

New coaches take a proactive approach to drafting "their" guys. Drafting another QB gives the HC more time, because he can convince the owners that he needs the audition. If the Eagles invest that high draft capital, given up what they've already given up in Wentz/Peterson, he's going to get that extra time, because it's the same exact HC vs QB conundrum the Eagles found themselves in this past summer.

Do we get rid of Doug Peterson or Wentz. This time, is it Hurts or is it Siriani. With only 2nd round draft capital if it's a choice between Siriani and Hurts it's 100 percent going to be Hurts that goes.

The HC does not aspire to have the success of his team displayed through the QBs legs and be good at making something "out of nothing." It's an insult to the coaching staff. He wants a passing QB to show off he's a competent HC and has the offensive value so he can keep his job.

It's not a stretch to see Siriani getting grilled by the owners and saying we need a QB to take this offense to where we wanna be. Not at all.

[FantasyFreak]

A weak class is the consensus in the fantasy football community. We can sit here in our comfy chairs and say yeah just skip this years class. Ez

The NFL has hundreds of jobs on the line. Head coaches don't have the luxury of waiting. Absolutely no one in the draft room this year is gonna be thinking that these QBs aren't gonna score me fantasy points. If you need a QB for your football team you're taking one.

Is Nick Siriani comfortable losing his multi-million dollar job, piggy backing on Hurts legs, crossing his fingers and hoping for the best?

New coaches take a proactive approach to drafting "their" guys. Drafting another QB gives the HC more time, because he can convince the owners that he needs the audition. If the Eagles invest that high draft capital, given up what they've already given up in Wentz/Peterson, he's going to get that extra time, because it's the same exact HC vs QB conundrum the Eagles found themselves in this past summer.

Do we get rid of Doug Peterson or Wentz. This time, is it Hurts or is it Siriani. With only 2nd round draft capital if it's a choice between Siriani and Hurts it's 100 percent going to be Hurts that goes.

The HC does not aspire to have the success of his team displayed through the QBs legs and be good at making something "out of nothing." It's an insult to the coaching staff. He wants a passing QB to show off he's a competent HC and has the offensive value so he can keep his job.

It's not a stretch to see Siriani getting grilled by the owners and saying we need a QB to take this offense to where we wanna be. Not at all.

Well put. The GM may also say I want you to work with Jalen, that's the downside. Sirianni will have his input, but it's ultimately Howie's call. It certainly wouldn't be encouraging for Hurts if Sirianni does lobby for a new QB, behind closed doors, though. The reality is, Howie may be able to flip Hurts for more than they paid. He may be able to get a 2nd plus a prospect. He may even be able to get a first from the right GM, who knows? I doubt it, but who knows. At that point, the team acquiring Hurts would give him a shot, you'd think. I can't see Hurts being on the roster if they draft a new QB early. They may preach competition, but the reality is it creates a bad dynamic in the locker room.

[cazzie33]

Howie Roseman answers to no one but the Lurie's and he stuck his neck out drafting Hurts so he'd be admitting HIS MISTAKE ....something he rarely does(and I listen to WIP all the time & no it isn't overwhelming desire by fans to go QB in draft since none are off the charts talents)

[mild]

Accuracy, and ability to read the field. He still looks to run almost all the time. He's been a drop your eyes and run QB since college, and that hasn't changed. I think all the first guy in, last guy out stuff is just fluff. Hear it for all QB's mostly, I expect that to be said about QB's. The concern is if you hear the opposite. So Hurts will work hard, unlike a guy like, say Haskins, where the rumblings were there. I agree about this off season. Seeing how if he can take a step up will be a key. I think it's too early to write him off, but I am legitimately skeptical to his ceiling as a passer. I'd love for him to prove me wrong, one of my best buds is a big Eagles fan, so I'd love to see him do well.

Accuracy, we know, can be improved with mechanical training. We've seen that with Lamar and Allen, where both have adjusted their throwing base and have reaped the rewards of improving their consistency. That's what Carson Palmer's brother, Jordan Palmer, specialises in - he was the one that worked with Allen and also Joe Burrow.

Ability to read the field - agreed. That's where the jump must happen, for him to grow as a passer.

The one good thing you can say there - is that he will never look as bad as a comparable pure thrower, as his legs will extend drives and keep the offense on the field - and thus the team will stay competitive despite his limitations in the early going (as we are seeing). That will inherently buy him a far longer time to develop as a result.

It will remain to be seen whether he can become a professional thrower - but for our purposes, in the short term - he's a Fantasy league winner. There is going to be a LOT of playoff teams riding him this year with that schedule.

[Anteaters]

I've seen little progression as a passer. The progression I have seen is in the coaching staff, realizing he's severely limited as a thrower, and basing the thing around a heavy, heavy run attack. This will work alright as long as the OL is a good run blocking OL, but the entire thing is very fragile, the second their run blocking suffers, they are in big trouble. I'll eat my hat if Hurts ever wins a SB. I don't think they've found more than a mediocre QB that just happens to be able to run at an above average level. I think Defenses will be able to adjust just as much as Hurts can, unless he becomes a better passer. If that happens, he will be a functional starter for many years, but it has to be a very big development from where he is now, because the second the run game stops working, any recipe to win games is out the window.

100% this.

[halfbaked88]

Howie Roseman answers to no one but the Lyrics and he stuck his neck out drafting Hurts so he'd be admitting HIS MISTAKE ....something he rarely does(and I listen to WIP all the time & no it isn't overwhelming desire by fans to go QB in draft since none are off the charts talents)

I don't think Howie drafting Hurts was purely his belief in the QB. Context here if you remember this was in the middle of major QB/head coach controversy.

The drafting of Hurts was likely just as much about leverage with Carson Wentz than just the pick itself. Similar to the Jordan love pick. Who knows how much Doug Peterson was trying to blame Carson for the struggles and influenced the Hurts pick as well.

[The MAC Machine]

The Eagles are getting quite old in the trenches. I think they should load up there instead of going after skill players.

[cazzie33]

Howie Roseman answers to no one but the Lyrics and he stuck his neck out drafting Hurts so he'd be admitting HIS MISTAKE ....something he rarely does(and I listen to WIP all the time & no it isn't overwhelming desire by fans to go QB in draft since none are off the charts talents)

I don't think Howie drafting Hurts was purely his belief in the QB. Context here if you remember this was in the middle of major QB/head coach controversy.

The drafting of Hurts was likely just as much about leverage with Carson Wentz than just the pick itself. Similar to the Jordan love pick. Who knows how much Doug Peterson was trying to blame Carson for the struggles and influenced the Hurts pick as well.

It was a very high pick @ a position you had committed a boatload of capital to already. It's a signal to the incumbent we are ready to move on from you w/ this new guy.

How was that received by the GB fans ? I listened to the Philly fan's calls and it was overwhelming majority of them saying there were other needs to be addressed. They liked it about as much and they didn't really have Wentz' back. More so they didn't like using that high of a pick on a QB when they needed WR help as well as defense. Turns out both "FRANCHISE"QBs took offense and likely Rodgers will join Wentz in switching teams after this year.

You're probably right on Pederson not totally backing Carson in private but I feel Pederson was going to side w/ his boss anyway to keep his job. Time will tell if the front offices got it right & we will never know what it would've looked like if they has gotten their QBs more weapons instead of choosing their replacements.

[FantasyFreak]

Howie Roseman answers to no one but the Lurie's and he stuck his neck out drafting Hurts so he'd be admitting HIS MISTAKE ....something he rarely does(and I listen to WIP all the time & no it isn't overwhelming desire by fans to go QB in draft since none are off the charts talents)

A 2nd rounder isn't a boatload of capital, and if you pull off getting back more than you paid, you aren't admitting a mistake, in fact, you are showing you made a profit. Many said when they drafted Hurts he may be able to flip him later. Nobody would think it was a mistake drafting Hurts if the Eagles end up profiting off that pick. Not saying it's going to happen, but the idea he's admitting it was a mistake by trading for a profit is wrong. That's a win.

[Ice]

A weak class is the consensus in the fantasy football community. We can sit here in our comfy chairs and say yeah just skip this years class. Ez

The NFL has hundreds of jobs on the line. Head coaches don't have the luxury of waiting. Absolutely no one in the draft room this year is gonna be thinking that these QBs aren't gonna score me fantasy points. If you need a QB for your football team you're taking one.

Is Nick Siriani comfortable losing his multi-million dollar job, piggy backing on Hurts legs, crossing his fingers and hoping for the best?

New coaches take a proactive approach to drafting "their" guys. Drafting another QB gives the HC more time, because he can convince the owners that he needs the audition. If the Eagles invest that high draft capital, given up what they've already given up in Wentz/Peterson, he's going to get that extra time, because it's the same exact HC vs QB conundrum the Eagles found themselves in this past summer.

Do we get rid of Doug Peterson or Wentz. This time, is it Hurts or is it Siriani. With only 2nd round draft capital if it's a choice between Siriani and Hurts it's 100 percent going to be Hurts that goes.

The HC does not aspire to have the success of his team displayed through the QBs legs and be good at making something "out of nothing." It's an insult to the coaching staff. He wants a passing QB to show off he's a competent HC and has the offensive value so he can keep his job.

It's not a stretch to see Siriani getting grilled by the owners and saying we need a QB to take this offense to where we wanna be. Not at all.

Well put. The GM may also say I want you to work with Jalen, that's the downside. Sirianni will have his input, but it's ultimately Howie's call. It certainly wouldn't be encouraging for Hurts if Sirianni does lobby for a new QB, behind closed doors, though. The reality is, Howie may be able to flip Hurts for more than they paid. He may be able to get a 2nd plus a prospect. He may even be able to get a first from the right GM, who knows? I doubt it, but who knows. At that point, the team acquiring Hurts would give him a shot, you'd think. I can't see Hurts being on the roster if they draft a new QB early. They may preach competition, but the reality is it creates a bad dynamic in the locker room.

Sounds like you guys may be looking at this from the Negative side of the coin. Hurts has carried and yes CARRIED the Eagles to 3 wins in the last 4 and three of those games were blowouts. The only loss in this stretch was a 3 point one which happened to be Hurts Highest rated passing game of the year. This is a team in full rebuild and doing way better than many expected.

The Eagles are far more likely to think they have a solid future with Hurts which in case anyone isn't looking fits the mold of the dual threat QB's infiltrating the NFL.

It is really hard to upgrade at QB unless one falls in your lap but there are only 2 real legit opportunities to immediately upgrade. 1) D. Watson and that comes with a high price and much risk. Additionally, Watson would have to approve the deal. 2) The Eagles could try and trade for Rodgers.

No doubt they have the capital to make a move but the odds are that they are happy with the development of Hurts.

[YouMightDieTryin]

A weak class is the consensus in the fantasy football community. We can sit here in our comfy chairs and say yeah just skip this years class. Ez

The NFL has hundreds of jobs on the line. Head coaches don't have the luxury of waiting. Absolutely no one in the draft room this year is gonna be thinking that these QBs aren't gonna score me fantasy points. If you need a QB for your football team you're taking one.

Is Nick Siriani comfortable losing his multi-million dollar job, piggy backing on Hurts legs, crossing his fingers and hoping for the best?

New coaches take a proactive approach to drafting "their" guys. Drafting another QB gives the HC more time, because he can convince the owners that he needs the audition. If the Eagles invest that high draft capital, given up what they've already given up in Wentz/Peterson, he's going to get that extra time, because it's the same exact HC vs QB conundrum the Eagles found themselves in this past summer.

Do we get rid of Doug Peterson or Wentz. This time, is it Hurts or is it Siriani. With only 2nd round draft capital if it's a choice between Siriani and Hurts it's 100 percent going to be Hurts that goes.

The HC does not aspire to have the success of his team displayed through the QBs legs and be good at making something "out of nothing." It's an insult to the coaching staff. He wants a passing QB to show off he's a competent HC and has the offensive value so he can keep his job.

It's not a stretch to see Siriani getting grilled by the owners and saying we need a QB to take this offense to where we wanna be. Not at all.

Well put. The GM may also say I want you to work with Jalen, that's the downside. Sirianni will have his input, but it's ultimately Howie's call. It certainly wouldn't be encouraging for Hurts if Sirianni does lobby for a new QB, behind closed doors, though. The reality is, Howie may be able to flip Hurts for more than they paid. He may be able to get a 2nd plus a prospect. He may even be able to get a first from the right GM, who knows? I doubt it, but who knows. At that point, the team acquiring Hurts would give him a shot, you'd think. I can't see Hurts being on the roster if they draft a new QB early. They may preach competition, but the reality is it creates a bad dynamic in the locker room.

Sounds like you guys may be looking at this from the Negative side of the coin. Hurts has carried and yes CARRIED the Eagles to 3 wins in the last 4 and three of those games were blowouts. The only loss in this stretch was a 3 point one which happened to be Hurts Highest rated passing game of the year. This is a team in full rebuild and doing way better than many expected.

The Eagles are far more likely to think they have a solid future with Hurts which in case anyone isn't looking fits the mold of the dual threat QB's infiltrating the NFL.

It is really hard to upgrade at QB unless one falls in your lap but there are only 2 real legit opportunities to immediately upgrade. 1) D. Watson and that comes with a high price and much risk. Additionally, Watson would have to approve the deal. 2) The Eagles could try and trade for Rodgers.

No doubt they have the capital to make a move but the odds are that they are happy with the development of Hurts.

Is is sustainable or are they just buying time? I see him as a Cam Newton or Kap style player at this moment. He doesn't like to go through his progressions and he relies on his feet too much. Eventually those style players are figured out and left out in the cold. Hurts needs to show he's making improvements with his arm. I'm just not seeing it.

[mild]

Is is sustainable or are they just buying time? I see him as a Cam Newton or Kap style player at this moment. He doesn't like to go through his progressions and he relies on his feet too much. Eventually those style players are figured out and left out in the cold. Hurts needs to show he's making improvements with his arm. I'm just not seeing it.

Soooo... both of those QB's you name-checked played in Superbowls...

Seems fine to me.

"Improvements with his arm" aren't coming this year for the reasons I've already laid out. That's a mechanics/offseason project.

"Improvements with his decision making, and comfort level with Sirianni's offense" are indeed happening as we speak.

To the guy who is dead sure the Eagles are taking a QB in the draft with their 3 picks... Cool man. Which one? If the Draft was today, the Eagles would be picking 8th with the Miami pick.

That would beeee... behind #1 pick DET, #4 HOU, and numbers #5 and #7 NYG.

And don't look now, but Miami's remaining schedule is reasonably cake, they don't own their own pick, and Tua has everything to play for.

So, whose your 4th favourite QB in 2022 that is going to beat out Jalen Hurts, again?

Or why would it be smart to give up all 3 1sts in 2022 to move up for Matt Corral or Malik Willis - when your current QB is showing this much promise?

Remember: Howie fancies himself as an NFL venture-capital Swami. He will look to extract the most value from his picks, not the least. That means BPA. In this draft? That is -not- QB when you already have Jalen Hurts.

Just my opinion.

ps. Jalen Hurts is now the #1 fantasy QB after that Saints game. What a beast! What a great player to cheer for! I'm so happy I have shares!

[Pullo Vision]

Thoughts on Tyrod Taylor as a comp? Similar rough skills and a good locker room guy.