Jalen Hurts: What's the verdict?

[jenkins.math]

Getting rid of Wentz in any fashion before the 21 season is over is a 59 million dollar dead cap hit to the Eagles.

That's not entirely accurate. If they cut him their dead cap is the remainder of his signing bonus (about $33.5M) plus his 2021 salary, which was fully guarantee in March 2020 when he was still on the roster ($25.6M). If they trade him, the signing bonus dead cap still hits, but the 2021 salary gets paid by his new team, so the eagles don't take a dead cap for that. So they'd save about $800k in cap space by trading him in 2021, and more importantly would be off scott free starting in 2022.
Plus the remaining contract after Philly eats his signing bonus is around what a low end starter like Nick Foles or Teddy Bridgwater got, and fairly cheap to get out of. I think some teams will see that contact as a bargain, and Philly gets a day 2 or early day 3 pick for Wentz.

Ok, I stand corrected on the numbers. Thanks.

Now ill add that if the Eagles can move Wentz to save 800k it still doesn't make any sense to move him. I doubt anybody is giving much for Wentz and you still have to bring in a backup, with the vet min being 585k. So you can have Wentz and Hurts or Hurts, some vet min scrub, and 200k of cap space. Unless Wentz is a locker room disruption i just dont see the benefit in moving him before next season.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Getting rid of Wentz in any fashion before the 21 season is over is a 59 million dollar dead cap hit to the Eagles.

That's not entirely accurate. If they cut him their dead cap is the remainder of his signing bonus (about $33.5M) plus his 2021 salary, which was fully guarantee in March 2020 when he was still on the roster ($25.6M). If they trade him, the signing bonus dead cap still hits, but the 2021 salary gets paid by his new team, so the eagles don't take a dead cap for that. So they'd save about $800k in cap space by trading him in 2021, and more importantly would be off scott free starting in 2022.
Plus the remaining contract after Philly eats his signing bonus is around what a low end starter like Nick Foles or Teddy Bridgwater got, and fairly cheap to get out of. I think some teams will see that contact as a bargain, and Philly gets a day 2 or early day 3 pick for Wentz.

Ok, I stand corrected on the numbers. Thanks.

Now ill add that if the Eagles can move Wentz to save 800k it still doesn't make any sense to move him. I doubt anybody is giving much for Wentz and you still have to bring in a backup, with the vet min being 585k. So you can have Wentz and Hurts or Hurts, some vet min scrub, and 200k of cap space. Unless Wentz is a locker room disruption i just dont see the benefit in moving him before next season.

No problem!
I'd say if they know he not the guy in 2022, they have to move him this off-season. If he's on the roster March 20 this year, $15m gets guaranteed for 2022 season. I think it makes a ton of sense for 2022 on, especially if they end up with a chance to get Wilson, or Hurts plays well to end the year.
Also, I think they'll be able to get a decent pick for Wentz. There are several teams who probably consider themselves contenders, have cap space, and don't have a long term QB. Odds are at least one of them thinks they can fix Wentz.

[YouMightDieTryin]

What does this mean for PHI offensive weapons? Upgrade Ertz/Goedert? Potentially downgrade the RB's (ala Cam-esque type offense)?

[CGW]

What does this mean for PHI offensive weapons? Upgrade Ertz/Goedert? Potentially downgrade the RB's (ala Cam-esque type offense)?

Hard to be a downgrade for the RBs. Wentz never checked down to RBs. It's been one of their issues, he hangs on too long going for the homerun rather than dumping off to hit singles.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Goedert was probably the only one eating with Wentz. He's the only guy I'd consider at risk for a slight downgrade. I'm in wait and see mode.

[thebeast]

I think Hurts will be great!

I didn't think he was a very good college QB, so I'd be rwally surprised if he succeeds at this level, but Josh Allen has shown it's not impossible.

Not to derail this thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if Allen follows up this year with a Wentz like year. I feel like he over-performed this year and at the beginning of the year if I had to be on any starter being unseated by their backup it would have been 1) Mariota over Carr and 2) Fromm over Allen.

[Jigga94]

I think Hurts will be great!

I didn't think he was a very good college QB, so I'd be rwally surprised if he succeeds at this level, but Josh Allen has shown it's not impossible.

Not to derail this thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if Allen follows up this year with a Wentz like year. I feel like he over-performed this year and at the beginning of the year if I had to be on any starter being unseated by their backup it would have been 1) Mariota over Carr and 2) Fromm over Allen.

Thanks for the laugh

[Ice]

I found a good breakdown of the eagles options with his contract HERE.
I was a bit off on the numbers I mentioned earlier. The team acquiring Wentz would get him on a 4 year $98.5M deal, with 2021 guaranteed and $15M in 2022 guaranteed. I feel like the Colts and Pats will be interested, maybe some other teams.

It's not about the money. It sounds like a lot but Billionaires think about money a bit differently and he would just be a write off as a cost of business.

While I could see one of those teams being interested because the Colts know him and BB likes reclamation projects but neither team is stupid. Wentz is about the worst starting QB we have seen in this league in a while. At least Winston could throw TD's. Wentz can't do anything right. I think he is done in Philly and they will have to pay a team a 2nd rounder or a sizable piece of the contract to trade him.

Not sure a franchise quality QB is even on their roster but Hurts won't be a downgrade at this point.

[Ice]

I think Hurts will be great!

I didn't think he was a very good college QB, so I'd be rwally surprised if he succeeds at this level, but Josh Allen has shown it's not impossible.

Not to derail this thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if Allen follows up this year with a Wentz like year. I feel like he over-performed this year and at the beginning of the year if I had to be on any starter being unseated by their backup it would have been 1) Mariota over Carr and 2) Fromm over Allen.

Are you on Drugs......

Josh Allen is fantastic and a vastly better athlete. He is also on an ascending team with a real GM and great coaching.

The difference between Wentz and Allen. One has gotten considerably better 3 straight years and the other has gotten worse 3 straight years.

Maybe you're a Shock Jock testing out something for your next show......

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

I found a good breakdown of the eagles options with his contract HERE.
I was a bit off on the numbers I mentioned earlier. The team acquiring Wentz would get him on a 4 year $98.5M deal, with 2021 guaranteed and $15M in 2022 guaranteed. I feel like the Colts and Pats will be interested, maybe some other teams.

It's not about the money. It sounds like a lot but Billionaires think about money a bit differently and he would just be a write off as a cost of business.

While I could see one of those teams being interested because the Colts know him and BB likes reclamation projects but neither team is stupid. Wentz is about the worst starting QB we have seen in this league in a while. At least Winston could throw TD's. Wentz can't do anything right. I think he is done in Philly and they will have to pay a team a 2nd rounder or a sizable piece of the contract to trade him.

Not sure a franchise quality QB is even on their roster but Hurts won't be a downgrade at this point.

Ok then, the broncos trade a 3rd for him if we are saying it'll be a not smart franchise
I guess we'll find out whether the eagles can get something for him. I think multiple teams will look at his 2018-19 tape (which was not great, but much better than this year's tape) and see a guy who can be an above average starter. My guess them getting something like a 3rd for him.

[remedy29]

For those comparing Hurts to Tebow or other college QBs who didn’t succeed in the NFL, you should know Hurts lead the NCAA last year in YPA under center. He has arm talent. Not a guarantee he’ll succeed but makes the Tebow comparisons a bit off base.

Sorry to continue the Tebow discussion, but Tebow finished his college career as third all time in yards per attempt for his college career. He has since been passed in the new passing era of football. So, regarding that comparison, it is not off base.
Tebow did not have a professional arm, but it is tough to point to anything he did in college because he was a fantastic college QB.

I picked up James Robinson for free and now Jalen Hurts. I hope Hurts does well and wins the starting job next year. Athletic QB's with arm talent is where NFL QBs are headed and they are fantasy gold at the QB position. Soon, the NFL and fantasy will learn that Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts(?) are the top rookie QBs, not their average athletic, average arm QBs.

[thebeast]

I didn't think he was a very good college QB, so I'd be rwally surprised if he succeeds at this level, but Josh Allen has shown it's not impossible.

Not to derail this thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if Allen follows up this year with a Wentz like year. I feel like he over-performed this year and at the beginning of the year if I had to be on any starter being unseated by their backup it would have been 1) Mariota over Carr and 2) Fromm over Allen.

Are you on Drugs......

Josh Allen is fantastic and a vastly better athlete. He is also on an ascending team with a real GM and great coaching.

The difference between Wentz and Allen. One has gotten considerably better 3 straight years and the other has gotten worse 3 straight years.

Maybe you're a Shock Jock testing out something for your next show......

Yeah, if I said that about Wentz a year ago you would have given me the same response. Wentz was an MVP candidate not too long ago.

Anyway, my point is that if any QB that we currently rank really high is going to fall from grace my money is on Allen. You all need to learn how to read, I didn't say it will happen, I didn't say you should go sell Allen, I said it wouldn't surprise me. We see regression every year, this year it's happening to Wentz and to a lesser extent Lamar.

[Sriracha]

Not to derail this thread, but it wouldn't surprise me if Allen follows up this year with a Wentz like year. I feel like he over-performed this year and at the beginning of the year if I had to be on any starter being unseated by their backup it would have been 1) Mariota over Carr and 2) Fromm over Allen.

Are you on Drugs......

Josh Allen is fantastic and a vastly better athlete. He is also on an ascending team with a real GM and great coaching.

The difference between Wentz and Allen. One has gotten considerably better 3 straight years and the other has gotten worse 3 straight years.

Maybe you're a Shock Jock testing out something for your next show......

Yeah, if I said that about Wentz a year ago you would have given me the same response. Wentz was an MVP candidate not too long ago.

Anyway, my point is that if any QB that we currently rank really high is going to fall from grace my money is on Allen. You all need to learn how to read, I didn't say it will happen, I didn't say you should go sell Allen, I said it wouldn't surprise me. We see regression every year, this year it's happening to Wentz and to a lesser extent Lamar.

Oh man.. I remember commenting on how Wentz was succeeding despite being inaccurate in 2017 and getting put on Blast by a ton of people (obviously not here as I didn't have an account but likely would've seen a similar response).

Josh Allen looks fantastic.. but I really need to see him do it again after defensive coordinators have a full off-season to dissect his film before I anoint him.

edit: I should mention however, I don't see that with Allen this year so I'm reasonably optimistic he's legitimately turned the corner in terms of accuracy.

[Jigga94]

I found a good breakdown of the eagles options with his contract HERE.
I was a bit off on the numbers I mentioned earlier. The team acquiring Wentz would get him on a 4 year $98.5M deal, with 2021 guaranteed and $15M in 2022 guaranteed. I feel like the Colts and Pats will be interested, maybe some other teams.

It's not about the money. It sounds like a lot but Billionaires think about money a bit differently and he would just be a write off as a cost of business.

While I could see one of those teams being interested because the Colts know him and BB likes reclamation projects but neither team is stupid. Wentz is about the worst starting QB we have seen in this league in a while. At least Winston could throw TD's. Wentz can't do anything right. I think he is done in Philly and they will have to pay a team a 2nd rounder or a sizable piece of the contract to trade him.

Not sure a franchise quality QB is even on their roster but Hurts won't be a downgrade at this point.

Ok then, the broncos trade a 3rd for him if we are saying it'll be a not smart franchise
I guess we'll find out whether the eagles can get something for him. I think multiple teams will look at his 2018-19 tape (which was not great, but much better than this year's tape) and see a guy who can be an above average starter. My guess them getting something like a 3rd for him.

They did give a 4th for Flacco.....

[Ice]

It's not about the money. It sounds like a lot but Billionaires think about money a bit differently and he would just be a write off as a cost of business.

While I could see one of those teams being interested because the Colts know him and BB likes reclamation projects but neither team is stupid. Wentz is about the worst starting QB we have seen in this league in a while. At least Winston could throw TD's. Wentz can't do anything right. I think he is done in Philly and they will have to pay a team a 2nd rounder or a sizable piece of the contract to trade him.

Not sure a franchise quality QB is even on their roster but Hurts won't be a downgrade at this point.

Ok then, the broncos trade a 3rd for him if we are saying it'll be a not smart franchise
I guess we'll find out whether the eagles can get something for him. I think multiple teams will look at his 2018-19 tape (which was not great, but much better than this year's tape) and see a guy who can be an above average starter. My guess them getting something like a 3rd for him.

They did give a 4th for Flacco.....

Hahaha

BTW, I was never a big Wentz fan. I liked his potential but never a fan if his processing speed. Just thought he was late on too many easy throws and didn't read defenses that great.

While a major drop off of epic proportions for Allen is a remote possibility I guess like Wentz, that is usually reserved to old players. Allen doubters will be there of course but they might want to consider the 3 year window of evidence of this young stud.

3 year window
Completion % 52.8, 58.8, 69.9 ytd
TD's 10,20,26 ytd
Rating 67.9, 85.3,105.9 ytd
YPA 6.5,6.7,8.0
Passing yards per game. 172.8, 193.1, 283.6

New additions Cole Beasley last season and Diggs this season. Diggs already over 1000 and is tied for the league lead in receptions at 90. Beasley is on pace to go over 1000 yards as well.

Obviously Allen can't improve every stat every year but this kid is easily the best QB in that division.

Back to Wentz; I do hope Wentz gets it back but he was never really the same mentally after his fractured vertebrae back injury IMO and hard to blame him. ACL, Back, Concussion.... along with several college injuries. He might be done sooner than later.