Jalen Hurts: What's the verdict?

[mild]

The 1.1 overall pick Cam Newton & TWO.21 Jalen Hurts aren't the same pedigree. They aren't the same species lol

Just so we're clear...

You've gone from invoking Cam Newton as a -bad- player and a reason to fade Hurts... despite Cam having stuck around in the league for 10 years (and counting!?) thanks to his elite rushing... to now telling me that I shouldn't be invoking Cam Newton as a comparison.

OK.

If Jalen Hurts has such poor draft capital, and is in such poor stead with his team's Front Office as a result - then why did the Eagles trade away a sure-fire Draft Capital all-star in 1.02 overall Carson Wentz - a player that they traded two 1sts, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th round pick to acquire? Surely this Pro Bowl QB that they bought for 1x literal farm would have been worth keeping over a lowly 2nd round player... surely you move all mountains to retain this QB, rather than this miserable 2nd Rounder QB who does not even equal two Cameron Jerrell Newtons worth of unspecified "pedigree" value?

Surely, you would think, that this 1.02 QB - freshly signed, to a contract you cannot escape for less than 40+ million in dead cap - would be worth FAR more to the Eagles, due to his Draft Capital intangibles.

Oh, what's that? They went with the 2nd round guy instead? Well, blow me down. I guess maybe they've seen something in the guy.

Fancy that.

[halfbaked88]

Carson Wentz? Easy. They exhausted his leash. He landed a big contract for the same reason Jared Goff got one. High draft capital and leverage. It's the same reason Baker Mayfield will get a nice, big overpaid contract this off-season, and mostly likely fail in the same fashion.

I never said high draft capital guaranteed success.

However, it does guarantee the full length of a rookie contract. After that; it's open season.

A 2nd round QB is n-o-t-h-i-n-g- to an NFL team economy.

1st round QBs have a 5th year option which plays out differently. If Jalen had been drafted 1.32 like Lamar, believe it or not, I might share some of that optimism you have about him.

But you seem to be the only one with full conviction in him lately. Even with Minshew, one game 200+ yds, 2TDs and a win under his belt. I'd say stubborn even.

Driving home from work today, 98.5 CBS sports Philadelphia? You know what they're saying? The same thing I'm saying: "Jalen Hurts does not have the draft capital for the Eagles to invest the time in him."

I don't play dynasty like, well, I only payed 'something small' for Hurts, might as well stick around for the upside.

I play dynasty like, I only payed a 2nd/3rd round rookie pick for him, let me turn that into George Kittle. And oh hey, I just turned a 2nd/3rd into George freaking Kittle. Yay go me.

At least then you are getting value in something secure that will last. Holding Jalen Hurts passed this season is just so, so, SO risky.

Just so we're clear: do you think there's no chance that the Eagles draft/bring in a QB in 2022?

If not, why take the risk? Hurts value screams trade me right now......

[cazzie33]

4 weeks ago was the time if you were trading Hurts. Now you won’t see a good return compared to his value if he keeps the job. At this point he’s a ride it out & see guy. Hope he rebounds to validate status as starting NFL QB whether in Philly or elsewhere if they bring in their “FRANCHISE” guy

[Jfever]

Is it a short bus?

Without a doubt - it's a short bus.

[FantasyFreak]

Carson Wentz? Easy. They exhausted his leash. He landed a big contract for the same reason Jared Goff got one. High draft capital and leverage. It's the same reason Baker Mayfield will get a nice, big overpaid contract this off-season, and mostly likely fail in the same fashion.

I never said high draft capital guaranteed success.

However, it does guarantee the full length of a rookie contract. After that; it's open season.

A 2nd round QB is n-o-t-h-i-n-g- to an NFL team economy.

1st round QBs have a 5th year option which plays out differently. If Jalen had been drafted 1.32 like Lamar, believe it or not, I might share some of that optimism you have about him.

But you seem to be the only one with full conviction in him lately. Even with Minshew, one game 200+ yds, 2TDs and a win under his belt. I'd say stubborn even.

Driving home from work today, 98.5 CBS sports Philadelphia? You know what they're saying? The same thing I'm saying: "Jalen Hurts does not have the draft capital for the Eagles to invest the time in him."

I don't play dynasty like, well, I only payed 'something small' for Hurts, might as well stick around for the upside.

I play dynasty like, I only payed a 2nd/3rd round rookie pick for him, let me turn that into George Kittle. And oh hey, I just turned a 2nd/3rd into George freaking Kittle. Yay go me.

At least then you are getting value in something secure that will last. Holding Jalen Hurts passed this season is just so, so, SO risky.

Just so we're clear: do you think there's no chance that the Eagles draft/bring in a QB in 2022?

If not, why take the risk? Hurts value screams trade me right now......

I don't think that will happen, TBH. Don't think it's the same GM who drafted him, and it's pretty clear he's holding that team back.

[halfbaked88]

Who then? Case Keenum... Oh yeah. The Stefanski connection.... Merp. He's an undrafted one season wonder. Google "list of Cleveland Browns starting QBs" and it's pretty much the worst thing you've ever seen. I can see Keenum on that wall of shame all too easily.

With how long the Browns went without a pulse behind the QB position I think they're backed into a corner on this one. They have the worst QB carousel in recent history.

[Ice]

Who then? Case Keenum... Oh yeah. The Stefanski connection.... Merp. He's an undrafted one season wonder. Google "list of Cleveland Browns starting QBs" and it's pretty much the worst thing you've ever seen. I can see Keenum on that wall of shame all too easily.

With how long the Browns went without a pulse behind the QB position I think they're backed into a corner on this one. They have the worst QB carousel in recent history.

The problem is Baker is looking more and more like he is on that Carousel. I could see a prove it deal perhaps or even a Tag to see if he can rebound but he is barely a top 20 QB in this league and teams don't pay big for that these days.

Is he better than Young Burrow? Is he better than young Lamar? Those are the questions that a GM has to answer and that today is a big NO so winning that division looks pretty bleak given the talent loss that will happen if they pay him a big contract for a long time.

Hurts might be a better NFL QB when all is said and done than Baker. I like Baker but he isn't very mobile, doesn't read defenses all that well, and his arm is just average. I thought he would be better coming into the league due to accuracy. He hasn't taken a leap forward.

The quest to get better may be just around the corner for Cleveland. Baker is decent but he won't get Dak, Allen, or Mahomes money or any thing close. Now I could see a player like Herbert getting paid early to lock him up because he is the real deal.

The AFC list of young QB's that look way better than Baker is a long one.

Even his attitude is questionable in press conferences. Want to hear a young QB that gets it; Listen to Mac Jones weekly. Baker could learn a ton from that kid.

[halfbaked88]

I agree with mostly everything you said. I'm not saying Baker is good. I'm not saying Hurts is necessarily all that bad. I'm just arguing the dynamics of the NFL from a draft capital/economic viewpoint.

Franchising Baker would be $28,583,000 in 2022. I could see it happening, but I think most organizations should see tagging a QB a losing battle at this point. Kirk Cousins and Dak Prescott come to mind in recent memory.

Tagging Mayfield at 28.5M annually puts him just under Ryan Tannehill (29.5) and just above Jimmy G (27.5)... Other QBs paid more than that: Matt Ryan (30), Carson Wentz(32) and Kirk Cousins(33)

Excluding Cousins, who I view highly as an accurate QB who struggles as a closer, I'd say Mayfield belongs in the discussion.

You can't compare rookie QBs or those on their first contracts. Having a stud QB on a rookie contract is one of the most advantageous positions to be in. Of course we'd rather have Burrow, Lamar and Herbert. They haven't signed their big contracts yet.

Looking at the rookie QBs in 22' and QBs possible in FA next year I just don't see a whole lot of favorable options for Cleveland other than signing Baker to a 3 year deal minimum. Maybe structured with an easy out after year 2.

[Ice]

Just saying they won't sign him to a big deal unless they believe in him. If they Tag him at least they can walk away. They could also go after a FA while they draft a future. Players like Cousins, Jimmy G, perhaps Rodgers, and even Watson could be in play. Tua is another wildcard and Hurts could be as well.

It is obvious the Browns have/had reservations or he would have already been signed. Now days the blueprint to sign studs early is out there.

The real question is Baker that much better or even as good as Taylor Heinicke or the Mustache? That answer may drive contract discussions after the season. I think he is better but but don't see him 35 large good which is below market these days.

I think the Browns are getting better as an organization but they are still very conservative.

[halfbaked88]

Just saying they won't sign him to a big deal unless they believe in him. If they Tag him at least they can walk away. They could also go after a FA while they draft a future. Players like Cousins, Jimmy G, perhaps Rodgers, and even Watson could be in play. Tua is another wildcard and Hurts could be as well.

It is obvious the Browns have/had reservations or he would have already been signed. Now days the blueprint to sign studs early is out there.

The real question is Baker that much better or even as good as Taylor Heinicke or the Mustache? That answer may drive contract discussions after the season. I think he is better but but don't see him 35 large good which is below market these days.

I think the Browns are getting better as an organization but they are still very conservative.

I wish it were as easy as tallying up stats and assigning a dollar amount. QBs salaries are based more than just how they compare to their peers on a talent level. Lotta times it's fear of the unknown.

There's so much more to consider than just: is player X worth XX dollars?

To me the real questions are:

A. what are the Browns realistic options other than Baker Mayfield in free agency/the draft?

B. how can they acquire that new QB?

They won't have a high pick of significant value in trade. They have average dead cap space. They owe a few key D-linemen set to hit FA in 22' (Clowney, Malik Jackson, couple others, some safeties)

Overall, they're pretty average when it comes to economic situation right now and can't outbid for an elite QB the way some other teams can.

What QB is going to want to play in Stefanski run-first offense with Jarvis Landry and DPJ as his primaries WRs. Say they sign Gallup, or Juju. Does that even change anything? It's not attractive-in-the-least.

Why go there when Denver is there with the ultimate QB friendly set up? Or Miami who is Top 3 in cap space and can go get the best offensive Free Agents and you get to live in a beach house?

Once you get out of the "great-to-good" QB market you're left with a bunch of average QBs like a Tannehill, or Jimmy G, and yes, Baker Mayfield.

He's gonna get paid. Not market-setting, but a nice big, overpaid contract for the player he is.

[cazzie33]

I’m not “half baked” but swore I was in the Jalen Hurts thread and it morphed into a full Baker mode ‍

[mild]

I love that people have gotten so sick of talking about whether Jalen Hurts is good or not that we've morphed the thread into the new "is Baker Mayfield good" discussion. Warms my heart and soul, honestly.

AlexRollins is a semi-decent content creator on Youtube. His video essay this week: "Is Baker Mayfield playing himself out of Cleveland?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekr1YaSyFi8

Definitely worthy of a watch for all you Baker die hards in here.

Back to Hurts: for anyone driving the "Minshew could take the job" bandwagon, some unfortunately cold water for you...
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status ... 0688327680

Eagles coach Nick Sirianni asked if Jalen Hurts is still his QB going forward: “Yeah, of course.” Says he thinks Hurts will be available after the bye but doesn’t want to put a firm timeline on it.

And the update from Rotoworld:

Eagles coach Nick Sirinnai said Jalen Hurts (ankle) will start in Week 15 against Washington.
Sirianni was quick to name Hurts the starter after Gardner Minshew's drubbing of the Jets. He added that Hurts, who is dealing with an ankle injury, is expected to be able to play once the team comes out of their Week 15 bye. Hurts has made progress as a passer this year and brings otherworldly athleticism to the table. It would be surprising for Philly to move on from him after less than a season, especially for Minshew, who was acquired to be a backup after falling out of favor in Jacksonville. Expect Hurts to close out the season as the Eagles' starter and continue posting QB1 numbers as long as he's in the lineup.

"Otherworldly athleticism" you say... Hmmmmm, that sounds pretty good!

-Resumes driving empty bus-

[halfbaked88]

I underestimated Siriani in that press conference. Thought for sure he'd word salad his way into a controversy, but no. His response was concise and supportive of the starting QB without hesitation. He was definitely prepared for that Minshew question. However, that's what a good Head Coach is supposed to do. Keep the team together and the players playing. Good locker room stuff. Especially with all the Eagles went through with Wentz/Jalen. I gained a lil respect for him there.

Whether that statement remains through the off-season remains to be seen... How much if it is genuine and how much of it is political a.k.a. coach speak.

Ya' know, at this point, when I look at some drafts in years passed where only 1 QB was taken in the 1st round, or none, if Hurts can manage to string 2 or 3 wins at very the end of the year I think he might be given a chance... They're all divisional games, some get flukey, anything can happen... it's just not a chance I'm willing to take.

[halfbaked88]

I’m not “half baked” but swore I was in the Jalen Hurts thread and it morphed into a full Baker mode ‍

I'll keep it simple for you next time wouldn't want you to get lost.

[mild]

Ya' know, at this point, when I look at some drafts in years passed where only 1 QB was taken in the 1st round, or none, if Hurts can manage to string 2 or 3 wins at very the end of the year I think he might be given a chance... They're all divisional games, some get flukey, anything can happen...

Great to hear that you're finally coming around to my argument, seeing Dynasty reason, and agreeing that all lottery tickets are worth a squeeze at the right pri-

... it's just not a chance I'm willing to take.

Oh.

Well. Good on you for sticking to your guns, and not being interested in a QB that has shown Top 5 scoring ability. Kudos to you...

... I guess.

- resumes driving bus -