They do in a 3 game sample size. In no way can you compare 3 games in 2021 to 16 games in 2020 and draw a comparison.
TJ Hockenson thread
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
Agree totally. That's why I also included 2020 stats to show a comparison that includes the first 3 games of 2021 and 16 games of 2020.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
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Re: TJ Hockenson thread
The thing is no one's really disputing that 2020 Hock isn't worth the price tag of going several rounds ahead of other mid TE1s
They are looking at a profile with no non elite data points (elite college production, elite athleticism, elite draft capital, 21 year old early declare, damn good start to his career over first 2 seasons, now an elite situation with the Lions WR corps and high passing volume) and projecting a leap forward to "elite" that has already seemed to have begun
If Hockenson was 28 in his 7th season it would be a different story but it's way to early to say he just "is what he is" like a Jonnu Smith
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
This is spot on. I think Hocks price/optimism is well warranted. Aka he's the most likely to break into the top 3 tiers. The opportunity is there. I don't think Goff is that bad that he can't throw to a TE or lead a bad team to plenty of junk time. The age/injury concerns are there for the top 3.StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:24 pmThe thing is no one's really disputing that 2020 Hock isn't worth the price tag of going several rounds ahead of other mid TE1s
They are looking at a profile with no non elite data points (elite college production, elite athleticism, elite draft capital, 21 year old early declare, damn good start to his career over first 2 seasons, now an elite situation with the Lions WR corps and high passing volume) and projecting a leap forward to "elite" that has already seemed to have begun
If Hockenson was 28 in his 7th season it would be a different story but it's way to early to say he just "is what he is" like a Jonnu Smith
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
Hockenson has never been on the field more than 93% and usually in the 80-85% range - curious if that is because he is being kept off in obvious run situations or if the Lions have occasionally used a 4 WR formation (as Fells the other TE has never cracked above 40%).
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
I don't have anything to back this up, but I highly doubt hock is pulled for run plays, he was a highly regarded blocker coming out iirc. I feel like 80-85% is pretty solid, not like anyone plays all offensive snaps outside of QB. The man works hard, probably just needs a breather every now and thenArrylT wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 pm Hockenson has never been on the field more than 93% and usually in the 80-85% range - curious if that is because he is being kept off in obvious run situations or if the Lions have occasionally used a 4 WR formation (as Fells the other TE has never cracked above 40%).
12 Team 1 ppr .1 points per carry
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
+2 Flex
1.02, 1.06
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
+2 Flex
1.02, 1.06
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
ArrylT wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:56 pm Hockenson has never been on the field more than 93% and usually in the 80-85% range - curious if that is because he is being kept off in obvious run situations or if the Lions have occasionally used a 4 WR formation (as Fells the other TE has never cracked above 40%).
Hockenson does run a lot of mid tier routes so I imagine he is top 3-5 in snap counts at his position. No way he can be on the field every play given his size and how he is utilized; He is going to need some rest in games just to get his wind back so to speak.
Hockenson has issues at QB and WR to deal with. The QB doesn't throw players open and the WR's can't get open. I think the QB is is one of the worst if not the worst in the league. He is so blind in reading defenses he must be using the braille system some of the time. He will be benched soon at the rate he is playing.
I don't think snap count for him is really the problem but his numbers are frustrating no doubt.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts
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Re: TJ Hockenson thread
80-90% is about as good as it gets in my book. 100% would be wonderful, but I'm pretty sure that's only quarterbacks and the offensive line.
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
Just for context.
Travis Kelce snap counts this game (percent of offensive snaps: 84, 88, 87, 87, 86, 81
Darren Waller: 94, 92, 80, 93, 97, 83
T.J. Hockenson; 85, 93, 83, 81, 81, 82
Travis Kelce snap counts this game (percent of offensive snaps: 84, 88, 87, 87, 86, 81
Darren Waller: 94, 92, 80, 93, 97, 83
T.J. Hockenson; 85, 93, 83, 81, 81, 82
12-team SF, PPR, TE premium, 0.25 PPCarry
1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1SF 4Flex
QB: Mahomes, Fields, Love
RB: Bijan, ETN, Pollard, Achane, Herbert
WR: Kupp, Hill, Metcalf, Ridley, Jeudy, D.J. M, Burks, Hollywood, Wan'Dale
TE: Kyle Pitts, Goedert
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
And just for fun, Kyle Pitts: 67, 78, 83, 73, 68
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
He is well ahead of most young Tes already, dont most Tes not breakout until 5 years in? I expect his positive trend to continue especially when he gets better QB and WR help. I think this may be one of those cases where many were a year too early on a true breakout for him. This should make for a Buy Low opportunity
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
Just to be clear i certainly wasnt complaining - sorry if that was how it came across.
Anyways found a link that helps further with comparing - guess Ices explanation makes the most sense - so used to seeing some players at 95-100% that you forget to alter your perspective per position lol.
https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts ... nap-counts
Anyways found a link that helps further with comparing - guess Ices explanation makes the most sense - so used to seeing some players at 95-100% that you forget to alter your perspective per position lol.
https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts ... nap-counts
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
Say hello to the highest paid TE in the NFL, TJ Hockenson.
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Re: TJ Hockenson thread
Cool. Just drafted him in a startup where I'm punting first couple of years. He's shown he can produce and if you don't have Kelce, Andrews, or Pitts, seems like a solid acquistion for the future. Glad he's staying with the Vikings who are willing to use him correctly for fantasy purposes.
12 Team Non-PPR, 6pt TDs-22' R/U, 23' R/U
1QB, 2RBs, 2WRs, 1TE, 2Flex (W/R/T), 1K, 1DST
QB: P. Mahomes, R. Tannehill
RB: D. Achane, D. Henry, J. Mixon, A. Ekeler, M. Sanders
WR: T. Hill, D. Smith, D. J. Moore, D. Samuel, T. Higgins, D. Hopkins, O. Beckham, D. Wicks, J. Metchie
TE: T. Kelce, C. Kmet, H. Henry, M. Gesicki
K: J. Tucker
D/ST: Baltimore, Jacksonville
2024 Picks: 4.9
12 Team .5 PPR, 6pt TDs
1QB, 2RBs, 2WRs, 1TE, 3Flex (W/R/T), 1K, 1DST
QB: J. Love, J. Herbert
RB: S. Barkley, J. Cook, I. Pacheco, Br. Robinson, D. Singletary, D. Pierce
WR: D. J. Moore, J. Waddle, Z. Flowers, T. Higgins, C. Watson, J. Downs, J. Dotson, R. Shaheed
TE: T. McBride, H. Henry, M. Gesicki, C. Okonkwo, J. Woods
K: T. Bass
D/ST: Jacksonville, Indianapolis
2024 Picks: 2.7, 3.2, 4.11
1QB, 2RBs, 2WRs, 1TE, 2Flex (W/R/T), 1K, 1DST
QB: P. Mahomes, R. Tannehill
RB: D. Achane, D. Henry, J. Mixon, A. Ekeler, M. Sanders
WR: T. Hill, D. Smith, D. J. Moore, D. Samuel, T. Higgins, D. Hopkins, O. Beckham, D. Wicks, J. Metchie
TE: T. Kelce, C. Kmet, H. Henry, M. Gesicki
K: J. Tucker
D/ST: Baltimore, Jacksonville
2024 Picks: 4.9
12 Team .5 PPR, 6pt TDs
1QB, 2RBs, 2WRs, 1TE, 3Flex (W/R/T), 1K, 1DST
QB: J. Love, J. Herbert
RB: S. Barkley, J. Cook, I. Pacheco, Br. Robinson, D. Singletary, D. Pierce
WR: D. J. Moore, J. Waddle, Z. Flowers, T. Higgins, C. Watson, J. Downs, J. Dotson, R. Shaheed
TE: T. McBride, H. Henry, M. Gesicki, C. Okonkwo, J. Woods
K: T. Bass
D/ST: Jacksonville, Indianapolis
2024 Picks: 2.7, 3.2, 4.11
Re: TJ Hockenson thread
As a Vikings fan, I am happy with this. Not unexpected, but relieved that it didn't drag into the regular season.
Now, let's get JJ a fat contract too.
Now, let's get JJ a fat contract too.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.
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