Rookie QB discussion

[CGW]

On previous pages people were drooling over mac Jones. I dont think Jones will ever be a good fantasy football player. He's baker Mayfield without balls. I like him as a game manager and will probably win a lot of football games and lose a lot of fantasy football matchups.

I think your idea of a QB losing you games is different than mine. QB's with high completion percentage and low turnover rates arent losing you games. QBs who are inefficient, turn the ball over and pile up negative points are the ones who lose you games. Mac Jones aint that. Its odd that someone can critique a rookie QB who has a completion % of 70% and not think Drew Brees or Tom Brady.

You may have missed the part where he said fantasy games. Game managers can be great QBs in the NFL. Few game managers become high caliber fantasy assets. Brady and Brees grew far beyond "game manager", and it's possible Mac does too.

You are correct though, I'd rather my rookie QBs dink and dunking and throwing 70% completions than dink and dunking while throwing a ton of INTs. He seems to be reading defenses well and making good decisions. Jones will be in the league for quite some time with the way he plays.

[grandmabetty]

On previous pages people were drooling over mac Jones. I dont think Jones will ever be a good fantasy football player. He's baker Mayfield without balls. I like him as a game manager and will probably win a lot of football games and lose a lot of fantasy football matchups.

I think your idea of a QB losing you games is different than mine. QB's with high completion percentage and low turnover rates arent losing you games. QBs who are inefficient, turn the ball over and pile up negative points are the ones who lose you games. Mac Jones aint that. Its odd that someone can critique a rookie QB who has a completion % of 70% and not think Drew Brees or Tom Brady.

You may have missed the part where he said fantasy games. Game managers can be great QBs in the NFL. Few game managers become high caliber fantasy assets. Brady and Brees grew far beyond "game manager", and it's possible Mac does too.

You are correct though, I'd rather my rookie QBs dink and dunking and throwing 70% completions than dink and dunking while throwing a ton of INTs. He seems to be reading defenses well and making good decisions. Jones will be in the league for quite some time with the way he plays.

Correct. Re-read my post where I say he should be a successful real life football player and a bad fantasy football player (directed to Mac machine)

In the leagues I'm in, in the 4 games Jones has started, he has yet to surpass 20 points. Lance just did that in one one half of football. This is a fantasy football site after all is it not

[CGW]

Good weekend for the rookies, except for Mills and maybe Lance who was thrown into a game midway.

Fields made some nice throws and the play calling was much better in CHI. Of course it was the Lions... and he still didn't wow me. But at least he rekindled my hope in Darnell Mooney being a thing.

Lawrence showed glimpses of why he was the 1.01. Made some tough throws and pushed the ball downfield.

Wilson looked rough again early on, but came alive late. Haven't had a chance to watch any of it yet, but interested to see if it was improvement on his end or just bad Tennessee defense.

Lance showed why the outlook on his ceiling is so high. 42 rushing yards and definitely has a cannon for an arm. His fantasy day was saved by late game production when the game was largely over. Will be really excited to see him play after a full week of game planning (and what it does for deebo/kittle/rbs to have a mobile QB.) Still think he needs more development time.

Jones played an awesome game vs the Buccs tough defense. He looked calm in the pocket and read the defense well. I was impressed, especially since they couldn't run the ball at all. Still had trouble pushing the ball down the field, but in that system (and with his garbage WRs), he won't be asked to much. I think people may get frustrated by his low fantasy ceiling, but if he can get some weapons in the future who knows.

[Jigga94]

On previous pages people were drooling over mac Jones. I dont think Jones will ever be a good fantasy football player. He's baker Mayfield without balls. I like him as a game manager and will probably win a lot of football games and lose a lot of fantasy football matchups.

I think your idea of a QB losing you games is different than mine. QB's with high completion percentage and low turnover rates arent losing you games. QBs who are inefficient, turn the ball over recklessly and pile up negative points are the ones who lose you games. Mac Jones aint that. Its odd that someone can critique a rookie QB who has a completion % of 70% and not think Drew Brees or Tom Brady trajectory.

Kind of proves his point lol 70% is nice but he's not taking many shots down the field at all. He should be a nice QB, but again, we're talking about fantasy

[Sriracha]

22 points in one half of football for lance? What the problem is?

People are talking about him as a passer. See, guys that don't become good passers and win games, eventually aren't in your FF lineup. Not saying that's the case, but people were talking more long term outlook and the investment the 49ers made. Way too early to tell, but Lance is nowhere near being a good NFL QB yet. Short term outlook, FF points sure, he did fine. He also stepped into a game trailing, with the D willing to give up underneath stuff. Not a difficult situation for him to put up points in. From a football perspective, there is a lot of improvement needed. I roster Lance, but he has a ton to work on. He needs to get better, and hopefully he will. He's 21.

The game was 7-7 when he entered.

Trenton Cannon had the fumble on the kick off-return after SEA scored the go ahead TD that flipped the game script.

[murphysxm]

Its odd that someone can critique a rookie QB who has a completion % of 70% and not think Drew Brees or Tom Brady trajectory.

Not as odd as calling ANY rookie QB as having a Hall of Fame trajectory after 4 games. You literaly just compared a 1 year college starter and a rookie 4 games into his career against the 2 QB's with the most passing yards in NFL history. Please atleast be realistic with takes. He looked impressive, especially considering the moment last night, but I don't see high upside in his style. He will be better in real life than fantasy.

[timeEd32]

I came here to read some people singing the praises of Wilson and I am sorely disappointed. He still made some mistakes in the 4th and in OT, but damn did he also look good at times. The last 90 minutes of that game might be the happiest Jets fans have been in the last decade (low bar).

[mild]

I came here to read some people singing the praises of Wilson and I am sorely disappointed. He still made some mistakes in the 4th and in OT, but damn did he also look good at times. The last 90 minutes of that game might be the happiest Jets fans have been in the last decade (low bar).

I wrote a little bit about it. He definitely showed what had me excited for him. He also missed some absolute gimmes, including a couple game-winners.

I'd love to believe this is the game starting to slow down for him, and him starting to learn his system and weapons. I'm not there yet... I think that Tennessee defense is just all kinds of bad. TEN have been near-last in the league for (I think) 3 or 4 years straight at getting pressure on the QB, and they did nothing material this year to fix that.

So then, glass half full - "this is what Zach Wilson can do when he operates from a semi-clean pocket". He was still escaping free-running rushers this game. But the throws were the throws, and when they hit they were awesome.

[FantasyFreak]

22 points in one half of football for lance? What the problem is?

People are talking about him as a passer. See, guys that don't become good passers and win games, eventually aren't in your FF lineup. Not saying that's the case, but people were talking more long term outlook and the investment the 49ers made. Way too early to tell, but Lance is nowhere near being a good NFL QB yet. Short term outlook, FF points sure, he did fine. He also stepped into a game trailing, with the D willing to give up underneath stuff. Not a difficult situation for him to put up points in. From a football perspective, there is a lot of improvement needed. I roster Lance, but he has a ton to work on. He needs to get better, and hopefully he will. He's 21.

The game was 7-7 when he entered.

Trenton Cannon had the fumble on the kick off-return after SEA scored the go ahead TD that flipped the game script.

My apologies. You are right. I thought it was 14-7. Regardless, I think we are splitting hairs. Lance has a ways to go, needs to work on a lot as a passer, but he's 21, and the mobility he has is going to be a big problem for D's.

[FantasyFreak]

Mac looks like he found the right team to get the most out of him. He's going to be a good NFL QB. They need to get some weapons around him, but for a rookie, facing that amount of pressure all night from the D of the defending champs that made Mahomes look pedestrian, I think it's impressive for a kid in his 4th NFL game. There's a lot of room for optimism forPatriots fans.

[dondickenson]

My take on the rookies:

They are all pretty much as advertised, and I don’t see a bunch, or any, of them underwhelming like the 2018 class.

Lawrence is gonna be a super stud passer with rushing floor, as long as the team around him and coaching staff improve at least a little.

Wilson has great arm talent and moxie and is showing that immediately, mistakes and all.

Mac is a mature team leader already and is accurate, good decision maker, and is gonna be a real good irl QB for a long while imo, and a QB2 in fantasy.

Fields and Lance are pretty erratic, make some insanely good throws but are having the most struggles and have the most growth ahead of them. If there’s a straight up bust irl in these top 5 guys it could be one or both of these 2 by the end of next season, but at the same time these 2 also have the ability to be Konami codes in fantasy and be easy too 5 options at QB because of that, like Murray and Hurts.

I know none of this is groundbreaking insight but that’s kinda my point, these guys and their situations seem to be what we thought they were.

[BabyChark23]

Its odd that someone can critique a rookie QB who has a completion % of 70% and not think Drew Brees or Tom Brady trajectory.

Not as odd as calling ANY rookie QB as having a Hall of Fame trajectory after 4 games. You literaly just compared a 1 year college starter and a rookie 4 games into his career against the 2 QB's with the most passing yards in NFL history. Please atleast be realistic with takes. He looked impressive, especially considering the moment last night, but I don't see high upside in his style. He will be better in real life than fantasy.

I think the point is that he is showing maturity, leadership, poise, decision making ability, and accuracy that are far beyond anything that you would expect to see in a rookie QB. He is of course a pure pocket passer with very limited mobility. Obviously, he has about twenty years to go before he can come anywhere close to matching the resumes of Tom Brady and Drew Brees, but they are what we HOPE he develops into. They are the shining examples that give us hope that a pocket passer can hold relevance in today’s NFL. Given similarities in skill set, they are the most obvious comps. Everything we have seen so far, in an admittedly limited sample size, gives us a glimmer of hope that he could become that one day.

To summarize, some of us have Mac Jones on our rosters so please stop raining on our parade.

[StripesOfKC]

Are you claiming the Patriots to be a worse spot for a QB than the Jets/Jaguars?

I'm saying it's an unfalsifiable narrative instead of the aforementioned conclusion you declared it as.

I also would not lump Trevor Lawrence's struggles with Zach Wilson's.

You can choose not to but they have been very comparable and were before this week too

Higher YPA, AY/A and PFF grade for Wilson, higher TD rate and slightly higher passer rating/QBR for Lawrence

Sounds more like you're imprinting what you thought of the prospects on their NFL performances

Even their underlyings look similar:

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/trevor-lawrence/

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/zach-wilson/

(not updated for week 4)

Some notable Stats:

Money Throws (defined as requiring exceptional skill or athleticism or executed in clutch moments): 6-5 Wilson

Danger Plays: Lawrence 14-10

Interceptable Passes: Lawrence 17-8

Accuracy Rating: Wilson 8.3-7.3

Deep Ball Comp %: Wilson 43.8-41.7 on higher volume

True Completion % (factors out throwaways and dropped passes): Wilson 68.2-61

Play Action Comp %: Lawrence 64.5-48

Pressured Comp %: Lawrence 30.8-25.9

Clean Pocket Comp %: Wilson 65.4-60.9

Catchable Pass Rate: Wilson 70.5-67.8

Dropped Passes: Wilson 13-8

True Passer Rating (same idea as true Comp %): Wilson 58.4-27.8

Before this weak they were side by side each other at the bottom of the passing efficiency totem pole in EPA and CPOE

[ArrylT]

6 Rookie QBs started/ starting today. Most in Super Bowl Era I believe

Wilson
Lance
Fields
Jones
Lawrence
Mills

[mild]

6 Rookie QBs started/ starting today. Most in Super Bowl Era I believe

Wilson
Lance
Fields
Jones
Lawrence
Mills

Love your work as always! Hey, at least one of these is going to get a win today... (I'll crack up if it's Davis Mills )

Wilson spotty today in London, from what I've seen. Another dumbass pick, and sub-200 yards against a not-very-good Falcons D.

He's definitely being asked to do more for his offense than Mac Jones. I can see the flashes of talent in there, too. I wonder if or when it will all click.