Kadarius Toney Thread

[brward]

The release move on his slant was insane. So much separation immediately. Also the play where he's waving down Jones and pointing out as mismatch and burning him on a slant for a first down.

[cazzie33]

My how quickly the " he's an entitled POS " crowd is in awe of his athletic ability & potential

WR divas are everywhere and shouldn't be surprised that in NY all the attention has gone to his head. That being said if you are making plays in practice or can see that you aren't being given the chance to after being picked so highly it doesn't make sense. Especially after two starters (3 counting Engram ) @ the receiving corps are not in the game.

Last game he got his number called and performed pretty well (as did Golladay). Personally I see an offensive juggernaut in the making if Judge can come up w/ a decent offensive strategy. Even with s shaky OL there's too much quick hitting options if teams key on Saquon. Spread the field and give Jones some easier reads than trying to ram Barkley into the line & play action deep shots. Jones is athletic enough to make all out blitzers miss often.

Toney should be good for a handful of plays each game & more if he's hot to start the game

[mild]

My how quickly the " he's an entitled POS " crowd is in awe of his athletic ability & potential

Is that seriously directed at anyone here? Lol if so.

My issue with him is that he doesn't know how to run routes and seperate down the field. It's great to see him doing gadget short-area stuff and looking good with the ball in his hands, but we're still talking an upside of good-era Percy Harvin at this point.

He's still got ages to go before he's sniffing the kind of route running that other first round pedigree WR's like Jeudy and Devonta Smith offer. Great that he's getting on the field, finally, though.

[cazzie33]

My how quickly the " he's an entitled POS " crowd is in awe of his athletic ability & potential

Is that seriously directed at anyone here? Lol if so.

My issue with him is that he doesn't know how to run routes and seperate down the field. It's great to see him doing gadget short-area stuff and looking good with the ball in his hands, but we're still talking an upside of good-era Percy Harvin at this point.

He's still got ages to go before he's sniffing the kind of route running that other first round pedigree WR's like Jeudy and Devonta Smith offer. Great that he's getting on the field, finally, though.

Similar things were said of Tyfreak in his first season. Not saying he's the 2nd coming but give me 2/3 of Hill and I'm buying.

Not sure that Hill is a "hands" guy either but just as long as Kadarius isn't Scantling bad at dropping the ball he can enter the conversation as a startable WR in 12 team lgs requiring 3wrs plus upside for more. Haven't seen enough to know if he's got pull away speed w/ the ball in the air but definitely has the quicks off the line. Haven't seen that he can't track the ball yet either.

What he does have that Devonta & Jeudy don't is Saquon drawing eyes off of the initial read that gives him room to operate. None have super accurate QB or at least not showing it so far. Danny Dimes has a chance to be in the short range but he isn't good on deep balls from what little I've seen. Guess would have to see what the stats compilers have him charted @ as far as catchable tosses downfield.

To my original point it was an easy majority posters w/ negative remarks about his on & off field perceptions. Then he goes for 9 targets (opportunity) w/ decent success and a couple of impressive runs after the catch ... Voila (not to be confused w/ Frank Viola) ... Instead of multiple remarks bashing him as a wasted pick circa Sept 17th & before to multiple praises in a row all of a sudden. Also reminiscent of Tyfreak who would only be a gadget guy until he became a force to be reckoned with.Toney is not the dominant force of Hill cuz nobody has his long speed combined with the suddeness but Toney is upper echelon. Just needs to learn how to focus on the intricacies of the pro game . Would make him watch Diggs tapes 24 hrs a day to learn how to set up defenders

[Jigga94]

My how quickly the " he's an entitled POS " crowd is in awe of his athletic ability & potential

Is that seriously directed at anyone here? Lol if so.

My issue with him is that he doesn't know how to run routes and seperate down the field. It's great to see him doing gadget short-area stuff and looking good with the ball in his hands, but we're still talking an upside of good-era Percy Harvin at this point.

He's still got ages to go before he's sniffing the kind of route running that other first round pedigree WR's like Jeudy and Devonta Smith offer. Great that he's getting on the field, finally, though.

Similar things were said of Tyfreak in his first season. Not saying he's the 2nd coming but give me 2/3 of Hill and I'm buying.

Not sure that Hill is a "hands" guy either but just as long as Kadarius isn't Scantling bad at dropping the ball he can enter the conversation as a startable WR in 12 team lgs requiring 3wrs plus upside for more. Haven't seen enough to know if he's got pull away speed w/ the ball in the air but definitely has the quicks off the line. Haven't seen that he can't track the ball yet either.

What he does have that Devonta & Jeudy don't is Saquon drawing eyes off of the initial read that gives him room to operate. None have super accurate QB or at least not showing it so far. Danny Dimes has a chance to be in the short range but he isn't good on deep balls from what little I've seen. Guess would have to see what the stats compilers have him charted @ as far as catchable tosses downfield.

To my original point it was an easy majority posters w/ negative remarks about his on & off field perceptions. Then he goes for 9 targets (opportunity) w/ decent success and a couple of impressive runs after the catch ... Voila (not to be confused w/ Frank Viola) ... Instead of multiple remarks bashing him as a wasted pick circa Sept 17th & before to multiple praises in a row all of a sudden. Also reminiscent of Tyfreak who would only be a gadget guy until he became a force to be reckoned with.Toney is not the dominant force of Hill cuz nobody has his long speed combined with the suddeness but Toney is upper echelon. Just needs to learn how to focus on the intricacies of the pro game . Would make him watch Diggs tapes 24 hrs a day to learn how to set up defenders

I get what you are saying but I still don't think them spending a 1st was wise on a guy who is used mostly near the LOS. Everyone gets comped to Tyreek and its getting really old. 2/3 of Tyreek in my mind pretty much means, can't run routes or get great separation, can't breakaway in the open field, and he definitely doesn't have the KC situation.

Now, I'm not trying to bury Toney either, it's week 5. He wasn't one of my top WR in this years draft, but he fell pretty hard in some leagues where he could be a great value. I personally thought after he was drafted in the 1st he would've been in most people's top 5.

If he gets the opportunity, then he should be fine as a WR3 or 4, I just worry about him getting consistent looks. Especially on this terrible team. Golladay will get his, although he doesn't take much away from Toney due to different roles.. Shepard will get looks when healthy. Barkley is a force still and then who knows how they mix in Slayton/Ross/Toney.

The draft capital works in his favor though as we see countless 1st rounders get opportunity after opportunity even when having limited production. Look at Ross on the same team lol. So there's still a lot of book left to write on this guy. He could have a big year 2/3 jump but Shepard and Golladay are both signed through 2023. And then we haven't even mentioned QB... do they roll with Danny? Or is Toney looking at spending year 2 or 3 with a new QB and/or new system? Toney may just be an ancillary piece in a mediocre offense and I think WR3 is about his ceiling. Still could do worse for a guy who was going mid-late 2nd

[BabyChark23]

Is that seriously directed at anyone here? Lol if so.

My issue with him is that he doesn't know how to run routes and seperate down the field. It's great to see him doing gadget short-area stuff and looking good with the ball in his hands, but we're still talking an upside of good-era Percy Harvin at this point.

He's still got ages to go before he's sniffing the kind of route running that other first round pedigree WR's like Jeudy and Devonta Smith offer. Great that he's getting on the field, finally, though.

Similar things were said of Tyfreak in his first season. Not saying he's the 2nd coming but give me 2/3 of Hill and I'm buying.

Not sure that Hill is a "hands" guy either but just as long as Kadarius isn't Scantling bad at dropping the ball he can enter the conversation as a startable WR in 12 team lgs requiring 3wrs plus upside for more. Haven't seen enough to know if he's got pull away speed w/ the ball in the air but definitely has the quicks off the line. Haven't seen that he can't track the ball yet either.

What he does have that Devonta & Jeudy don't is Saquon drawing eyes off of the initial read that gives him room to operate. None have super accurate QB or at least not showing it so far. Danny Dimes has a chance to be in the short range but he isn't good on deep balls from what little I've seen. Guess would have to see what the stats compilers have him charted @ as far as catchable tosses downfield.

To my original point it was an easy majority posters w/ negative remarks about his on & off field perceptions. Then he goes for 9 targets (opportunity) w/ decent success and a couple of impressive runs after the catch ... Voila (not to be confused w/ Frank Viola) ... Instead of multiple remarks bashing him as a wasted pick circa Sept 17th & before to multiple praises in a row all of a sudden. Also reminiscent of Tyfreak who would only be a gadget guy until he became a force to be reckoned with.Toney is not the dominant force of Hill cuz nobody has his long speed combined with the suddeness but Toney is upper echelon. Just needs to learn how to focus on the intricacies of the pro game . Would make him watch Diggs tapes 24 hrs a day to learn how to set up defenders

I get what you are saying but I still don't think them spending a 1st was wise on a guy who is used mostly near the LOS. Everyone gets comped to Tyreek and its getting really old. 2/3 of Tyreek in my mind pretty much means, can't run routes or get great separation, can't breakaway in the open field, and he definitely doesn't have the KC situation.

Now, I'm not trying to bury Toney either, it's week 5. He wasn't one of my top WR in this years draft, but he fell pretty hard in some leagues where he could be a great value. I personally thought after he was drafted in the 1st he would've been in most people's top 5.

If he gets the opportunity, then he should be fine as a WR3 or 4, I just worry about him getting consistent looks. Especially on this terrible team. Golladay will get his, although he doesn't take much away from Toney due to different roles.. Shepard will get looks when healthy. Barkley is a force still and then who knows how they mix in Slayton/Ross/Toney.

The draft capital works in his favor though as we see countless 1st rounders get opportunity after opportunity even when having limited production. Look at Ross on the same team lol. So there's still a lot of book left to write on this guy. He could have a big year 2/3 jump but Shepard and Golladay are both signed through 2023. And then we haven't even mentioned QB... do they roll with Danny? Or is Toney looking at spending year 2 or 3 with a new QB and/or new system? Toney may just be an ancillary piece in a mediocre offense and I think WR3 is about his ceiling. Still could do worse for a guy who was going mid-late 2nd

Sterling’s contract provides an opportunity for NYG to move on after this year with only a very small cap hit. Not saying they will or should move on, but his contract is not a handcuff forcing them to play Shepherd.

[cazzie33]

Agreed they coulda used their 1st rd on something else but then Urban woulda sniped Kadarius

[PR0v3]

Not sure why I’m seeing Tyreek comps, he looks much more similar to a Michael Thomas/Keenan Allen type to me. It’s fairly evident he has the potential to be a target hog in the short/intermediate as it’s near impossible to keep up with his first step, and I don’t see great long speed with him either. I don’t see the “gadget guy” in him, I see a guy who is going to command a heavy volume of level 1/2 targets and be a PPR machine. He’s going to make a killing on slant routes and YAC, he’s gaining heaps separation before he’s even five yards downfield.

[MEuRaH]

Not sure why I’m seeing Tyreek comps, he looks much more similar to a Michael Thomas/Keenan Allen type to me. It’s fairly evident he has the potential to be a target hog in the short/intermediate as it’s near impossible to keep up with his first step, and I don’t see great long speed with him either. I don’t see the “gadget guy” in him, I see a guy who is going to command a heavy volume of level 1/2 targets and be a PPR machine. He’s going to make a killing on slant routes and YAC, he’s gaining heaps separation before he’s even five yards downfield.

I see what you see. He's like a mixture between Keenan Allen and Dante Hall for me. If his route running improves, this kid could be quite amazing in time. Watching him with the ball in his hands is absolutely stunning.

[mild]

Sterling’s contract provides an opportunity for NYG to move on after this year with only a very small cap hit. Not saying they will or should move on, but his contract is not a handcuff forcing them to play Shepherd.

Just wanted to bump this - I think anyone buying Toney right now based on what they are seeing, plus projecting him to take the role next year - that's definitely a wise call, if you're looking at the books. For anyone lucky enough to not be aware of the Giants cap situation right now:

#1 most capped out team this year
#4 most capped out team in 2022

They have effectively zero cap space to move as presently constructed. This is the team, this is the whole thing.

If they poop out as badly as I think they're going to (I'm a Giants fan, check their upcoming 10 games) then a sweeping regime change could (and should) well be in order. I would imagine the first thing a new GM would do would be to cut the fat for anyone that doesn't fit a rebuild timeline, much like Atlanta with Julio this year.

They're not even close to beating a Dallas or a Tampa in a playoff game as presently constructed. I hope they realise that.

[Kmani6]

Sterling’s contract provides an opportunity for NYG to move on after this year with only a very small cap hit. Not saying they will or should move on, but his contract is not a handcuff forcing them to play Shepherd.

Just wanted to bump this - I think anyone buying Toney right now based on what they are seeing, plus projecting him to take the role next year - that's definitely a wise call, if you're looking at the books. For anyone lucky enough to not be aware of the Giants cap situation right now:

#1 most capped out team this year
#4 most capped out team in 2022

They have effectively zero cap space to move as presently constructed. This is the team, this is the whole thing.

If they poop out as badly as I think they're going to (I'm a Giants fan, check their upcoming 10 games) then a sweeping regime change could (and should) well be in order. I would imagine the first thing a new GM would do would be to cut the fat for anyone that doesn't fit a rebuild timeline, much like Atlanta with Julio this year.

They're not even close to beating a Dallas or a Tampa in a playoff game as presently constructed. I hope they realise that.

As a fellow giants fan I think it’s pretty likely with how injury prone Shepard has been that we move on from him.

Toney can fill that role with a even higher ceiling.

Now would also be a good time to refresh on his proday numbers:

4.38 40
40 inch vert
136 inch broad (insane)

[cazzie33]

Not sure why I’m seeing Tyreek comps, he looks much more similar to a Michael Thomas/Keenan Allen type to me. It’s fairly evident he has the potential to be a target hog in the short/intermediate as it’s near impossible to keep up with his first step, and I don’t see great long speed with him either. I don’t see the “gadget guy” in him, I see a guy who is going to command a heavy volume of level 1/2 targets and be a PPR machine. He’s going to make a killing on slant routes and YAC, he’s gaining heaps separation before he’s even five yards downfield.

I see what you see. He's like a mixture between Keenan Allen and Dante Hall for me. If his route running improves, this kid could be quite amazing in time. Watching him with the ball in his hands is absolutely stunning.

Totally disagree ... Keenan & MT are both 6'2 or more @ 210lbs plus that they are technicians at route running. Quick for their size but not in Tyreek or Kadarius small space realm. Both have iron mitts that are hard to knock ball loose on contested catches. Hill & Toney have Trump like tiny hands and prone to not reeling in the tough ones but can separate to the point that they are not being contested as much.

Dante Hall is an apt comparison though. That is a great call. He would've been devastating in today's game where they can't touch you

[MEuRaH]

I see what you see. He's like a mixture between Keenan Allen and Dante Hall for me. If his route running improves, this kid could be quite amazing in time. Watching him with the ball in his hands is absolutely stunning.

Totally disagree ... Keenan & MT are both 6'2 or more @ 210lbs plus that they are technicians at route running. Quick for their size but not in Tyreek or Kadarius small space realm. Both have iron mitts that are hard to knock ball loose on contested catches. Hill & Toney have Trump like tiny hands and prone to not reeling in the tough ones but can separate to the point that they are not being contested as much.

Dante Hall is an apt comparison though. That is a great call. He would've been devastating in today's game where they can't touch you

OK, I didn't elaborate. That's on me. Allen is a short-field WR. That's the part I was taking from Allen's game that I saw Toney do very well last week.

lol @ the hands comment.

[mild]

Saquon died for this.

[FantasyFreak]

So is he still not good because of his break out age and dominator rating? People just "knew he was trash from the minute drafted". This guy may go down as the best value in this draft. Guy was going mid/late 2nd in SF leagues I was in all off season. After guys like Amon Ra St Brown. The FF and metrics community thought they knew better, and they may take the L on this one.