Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

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Lazy Ass Mastermind
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Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Lazy Ass Mastermind » Sat May 08, 2021 2:34 pm

I keep hearing the arguments for and against these guys and I can’t help but think we’ve heard this debate before...

Specifically I mean that one of the biggest (but not the only) argument for Fournette at 1.01 that year was his “guaranteed workhorse” status and his clear path to 250+ touches, regardless of the team trajectory, offensive line, QB play, etc.

At 1.02 there was Dalvin Cook, who was widely considered a superior pass catching back but who walked into a murky situation with an established starter, Latavius Murray, standing in his path. I’m not saying that Murray was even close to the talent that James Robinson is, I’m just saying there are similarities in the narrative.

I’m not trying to take a stance one way or another.. I keep going back and forth between Najee and ETN for my RB1. TBH I thought of this because I was one of those people who took Fournette at the 1.01 that year, only to see Cook, CMC, Hunt, Kamara, Jones, Carson, etc go after him.

I don’t really know the point I’m trying to make. Just saw the parallels and thought this would make for an interesting discussion.
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RB: Najee Harris, Rhamondre Stevenson, Aaron Jones, James Conner, Jamaal Williams, Isiah Pacheco
WR: Tee Higgins, DJ Moore, Amari Cooper, Terry Mclaurin, Treylon Burks, Courtland Sutton, Parris Campbell
TE: Dallas Goedert, Evan Engram
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby StripesOfKC » Sat May 08, 2021 2:39 pm

They're more the 2021 versions of Josh Jacobs and Miles Sanders

Throw in Javonte and you have your own 2021 version of David Montgomery too

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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Sriracha » Sat May 08, 2021 2:50 pm

Lazy bleep Mastermind wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:34 pm I keep hearing the arguments for and against these guys and I can’t help but think we’ve heard this debate before...

Specifically I mean that one of the biggest (but not the only) argument for Fournette at 1.01 that year was his “guaranteed workhorse” status and his clear path to 250+ touches, regardless of the team trajectory, offensive line, QB play, etc.

At 1.02 there was Dalvin Cook, who was widely considered a superior pass catching back but who walked into a murky situation with an established starter, Latavius Murray, standing in his path. I’m not saying that Murray was even close to the talent that James Robinson is, I’m just saying there are similarities in the narrative.

I’m not trying to take a stance one way or another.. I keep going back and forth between Najee and ETN for my RB1. TBH I thought of this because I was one of those people who took Fournette at the 1.01 that year, only to see Cook, CMC, Hunt, Kamara, Jones, Carson, etc go after him.

I don’t really know the point I’m trying to make. Just saw the parallels and thought this would make for an interesting discussion.
I'll say it for you. Latavius is a comparable talent to James Robinson.

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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Vcize » Sat May 08, 2021 3:56 pm

Lazy bleep Mastermind wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:34 pm I keep hearing the arguments for and against these guys and I can’t help but think we’ve heard this debate before...

Specifically I mean that one of the biggest (but not the only) argument for Fournette at 1.01 that year was his “guaranteed workhorse” status and his clear path to 250+ touches, regardless of the team trajectory, offensive line, QB play, etc.

At 1.02 there was Dalvin Cook, who was widely considered a superior pass catching back but who walked into a murky situation with an established starter, Latavius Murray, standing in his path. I’m not saying that Murray was even close to the talent that James Robinson is, I’m just saying there are similarities in the narrative.

I’m not trying to take a stance one way or another.. I keep going back and forth between Najee and ETN for my RB1. TBH I thought of this because I was one of those people who took Fournette at the 1.01 that year, only to see Cook, CMC, Hunt, Kamara, Jones, Carson, etc go after him.

I don’t really know the point I’m trying to make. Just saw the parallels and thought this would make for an interesting discussion.
Wasn't Dalvin more like 1.05 by the time the actual draft rolled around?

If I recall most of my leagues typically went something like.

1.01 - Fournette
1.02 - Davis
1.03 - Mixon
1.04 - CMC
1.05 - Cook

Regardless it's kind of a random comparison. It's not like either comparison is a situation where people are vaulting an agreed upon lower talent above another guy due to path to touches. In both cases even pre-draft the consensus had Fournette > Cook and Najee > ETN.

The gap may have widened some but it's not like people are vaulting Sermon over ETN based on backfield competition. The consensus order of the two hasn't changed just as it didn't with Fournette/Cook.
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Ice » Sat May 08, 2021 4:06 pm

This just in; Etienne is way better than many of you think!

78 TD's at Clemson 16 of which were over 44 yards. He has great hips and when he puts his foot in the ground if you blink he is on his way to pay dirt. Managed to get him at 1.8 in my IDP league and couldn't be happier to pair him with A. Gibson.
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby blemly » Sat May 08, 2021 10:10 pm

Vcize wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:56 pm
Lazy bleep Mastermind wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 2:34 pm I keep hearing the arguments for and against these guys and I can’t help but think we’ve heard this debate before...

Specifically I mean that one of the biggest (but not the only) argument for Fournette at 1.01 that year was his “guaranteed workhorse” status and his clear path to 250+ touches, regardless of the team trajectory, offensive line, QB play, etc.

At 1.02 there was Dalvin Cook, who was widely considered a superior pass catching back but who walked into a murky situation with an established starter, Latavius Murray, standing in his path. I’m not saying that Murray was even close to the talent that James Robinson is, I’m just saying there are similarities in the narrative.

I’m not trying to take a stance one way or another.. I keep going back and forth between Najee and ETN for my RB1. TBH I thought of this because I was one of those people who took Fournette at the 1.01 that year, only to see Cook, CMC, Hunt, Kamara, Jones, Carson, etc go after him.

I don’t really know the point I’m trying to make. Just saw the parallels and thought this would make for an interesting discussion.
Wasn't Dalvin more like 1.05 by the time the actual draft rolled around?

If I recall most of my leagues typically went something like.

1.01 - Fournette
1.02 - Davis
1.03 - Mixon
1.04 - CMC
1.05 - Cook

Regardless it's kind of a random comparison. It's not like either comparison is a situation where people are vaulting an agreed upon lower talent above another guy due to path to touches. In both cases even pre-draft the consensus had Fournette > Cook and Najee > ETN.

The gap may have widened some but it's not like people are vaulting Sermon over ETN based on backfield competition. The consensus order of the two hasn't changed just as it didn't with Fournette/Cook.
Afaik there are plenty who never had Harris above Etienne. I for one haven’t.
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QB: Watson, Lawrence, Winston, Cam
RB: Harris, Ekeler, Dobbins
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby MEuRaH » Sun May 09, 2021 5:32 am

There are definitely similarities. I love Etienne and if I had to pick who had the better career via fantasy points between the two, I'll take Etienne, but I'm going to defend Harris for a moment:

The biggest difference between Fournette and Harris, in my opinion, is that Fournette relished in contact and Najee Harris does not. Fournette would seek out the hits and try to run through defenders, even though he had the feet and vision and talent to do otherwise. That constant punishment on the body wears a player down pretty fast, especially a running back.

I said this Feb 3, 2019
Those college highlights by Leonard Fournette look great, don't they? His ability to avoid contact was incredible, such a big guy who could move his body and show light feet. The problem is that he would take on contact too many times. His body won't last, and he's already showing signs of breaking down. If he doesn't start going out of bounds more or just "giving up" when there's no more yards to gain, his career will be shortened several years too early. I owned Fournette in 3 leagues his rookie year, then sold him away asap before year 2 started. His body won't last.
Harris on the other hand tries his best to avoid contact. Sure, sometimes he takes on a defender and that stands out in your mind, but for the most port he's trying to run around people, not through them. Draft Harris with confidence, he's not going to have a career like Fournette.
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby tresskid84 » Sun May 09, 2021 7:04 am

As long as it isn't the 2011 version of the RB draft, we will be alright
2021-Orphan Rebuild, 12tm PPR, SF, 1.75 TE Prem
2 SF, 8 Flex

QB: Mayfield, Z Wilson, D Jones, Heinicke, Rudolph, Foles
RB: Herbert, Felton, Evans, Nwangwu, Calais
WR: D Smith, Waddle, Chark, J Palmer, D P-J, Raymond, Washington, Jauan, Darden, Fehoko, Smith-Marsette, C Johnson, Proche, Shi Smith, A Tate, ESB, JJAW
TE: O'Shaughnessy, Moreau, Granson, Tyree J, Hu Bryant, Hopkins, Fortson
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1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 SF, 3 Flex
Draft is rookies and devy (only 2022 NFL eligible)

QB: Tua, Fields, Brissett, Foles, Purdy(D), T Morgan(D)
RB: Etienne, Gainwell, Homer, T Jones, J Hill, Ragas, Sargent, Calais, Funk,
WR: Cephus, Nico, J Palmer, Gage, Quez, P Williams, JJAW, Strachan, Proche, Lil'Jordan, Shi Smith, Fryfogle(D)
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Vcize » Sun May 09, 2021 7:57 am

blemly wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:10 pm Afaik there are plenty who never had Harris above Etienne. I for one haven’t.
Yeah there are always going to be plenty of people that have player x over z or player y over w. But via consensus Najee was well ahead of ETN even before the draft.

In fact if you look at adjusted avg on mizelle's rookie rankings pre-draft vs. post-draft the gap didn't even change that much after the draft.

http://mizelle.net/mfl/2021/rookies/
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Sriracha » Sun May 09, 2021 10:23 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:32 am There are definitely similarities. I love Etienne and if I had to pick who had the better career via fantasy points between the two, I'll take Etienne, but I'm going to defend Harris for a moment:

The biggest difference between Fournette and Harris, in my opinion, is that Fournette relished in contact and Najee Harris does not. Fournette would seek out the hits and try to run through defenders, even though he had the feet and vision and talent to do otherwise. That constant punishment on the body wears a player down pretty fast, especially a running back.

I said this Feb 3, 2019
Those college highlights by Leonard Fournette look great, don't they? His ability to avoid contact was incredible, such a big guy who could move his body and show light feet. The problem is that he would take on contact too many times. His body won't last, and he's already showing signs of breaking down. If he doesn't start going out of bounds more or just "giving up" when there's no more yards to gain, his career will be shortened several years too early. I owned Fournette in 3 leagues his rookie year, then sold him away asap before year 2 started. His body won't last.
Harris on the other hand tries his best to avoid contact. Sure, sometimes he takes on a defender and that stands out in your mind, but for the most port he's trying to run around people, not through them. Draft Harris with confidence, he's not going to have a career like Fournette.
Harris isn't really comparable to Fournette, at all.

But Trent Richardson is still in his range of outcomes... really wish we had some testing numbers for him.

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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby honcho55 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:26 am

hmm, fun thoughts here. Theres a year/duo that pops into my head that Ettienne fans will not like one bit: 2004, Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones.

A buddy of mine told me he saw Jackson while watching Harris a good long while ago, and I've come to agree. Not just identical height/weight, similar other (estimated) measurables, they look similar running the ball to me. Remains to be seen in Harris can be that good a pass catcher, but I havent seen a reason why he cant yet either.

ETN vs Jones? Well, Ive drafted him in one league so far, so I hope not, but there are some similarities, for the sake of this thread. Both highly recruited out of high school, both track stars. Numbers I can find there quickly? Jones even more so, with a slightly faster 100m and slightly longer triple jump. Etienne gets the nod with college production though, and while Jones scored a buttload of TDs, including 21 his last year, Etienne scored an absurd amount.

Not saying ETN=Jones, just like the Jackson comp for Harris, and this thread prompted me to find a comp in that class for him. That said, its easy to use hindsight on Jones, who I indeed drafted, I think (thats a while ago now).
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Sriracha » Sun May 09, 2021 11:55 am

honcho55 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:26 am hmm, fun thoughts here. Theres a year/duo that pops into my head that Ettienne fans will not like one bit: 2004, Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones.

A buddy of mine told me he saw Jackson while watching Harris a good long while ago, and I've come to agree. Not just identical height/weight, similar other (estimated) measurables, they look similar running the ball to me. Remains to be seen in Harris can be that good a pass catcher, but I havent seen a reason why he cant yet either.

ETN vs Jones? Well, Ive drafted him in one league so far, so I hope not, but there are some similarities, for the sake of this thread. Both highly recruited out of high school, both track stars. Numbers I can find there quickly? Jones even more so, with a slightly faster 100m and slightly longer triple jump. Etienne gets the nod with college production though, and while Jones scored a buttload of TDs, including 21 his last year, Etienne scored an absurd amount.

Not saying ETN=Jones, just like the Jackson comp for Harris, and this thread prompted me to find a comp in that class for him. That said, its easy to use hindsight on Jones, who I indeed drafted, I think (thats a while ago now).
Jackson ran a 4.50 at 233lbs.

If Harris ran a 4.5 I’d be tripping over myself to draft him... but he dodged all measurements while having suspt athleticism on tape.

Of his 47 runs of 10 yards or more in 2020 his average depth of first contact was 10.6 yards beyond the line of scrimmage and only 8 of those runs resulted in a gain of 20 yards or more.

Meanwhile ETN is scoring 16 TDs from 44+ yards out...

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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby honcho55 » Sun May 09, 2021 1:07 pm

Sriracha wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:55 am
honcho55 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:26 am hmm, fun thoughts here. Theres a year/duo that pops into my head that Ettienne fans will not like one bit: 2004, Steven Jackson and Kevin Jones.

A buddy of mine told me he saw Jackson while watching Harris a good long while ago, and I've come to agree. Not just identical height/weight, similar other (estimated) measurables, they look similar running the ball to me. Remains to be seen in Harris can be that good a pass catcher, but I havent seen a reason why he cant yet either.

ETN vs Jones? Well, Ive drafted him in one league so far, so I hope not, but there are some similarities, for the sake of this thread. Both highly recruited out of high school, both track stars. Numbers I can find there quickly? Jones even more so, with a slightly faster 100m and slightly longer triple jump. Etienne gets the nod with college production though, and while Jones scored a buttload of TDs, including 21 his last year, Etienne scored an absurd amount.

Not saying ETN=Jones, just like the Jackson comp for Harris, and this thread prompted me to find a comp in that class for him. That said, its easy to use hindsight on Jones, who I indeed drafted, I think (thats a while ago now).
Jackson ran a 4.50 at 233lbs.

If Harris ran a 4.5 I’d be tripping over myself to draft him... but he dodged all measurements while having suspt athleticism on tape.

Of his 47 runs of 10 yards or more in 2020 his average depth of first contact was 10.6 yards beyond the line of scrimmage and only 8 of those runs resulted in a gain of 20 yards or more.

Meanwhile ETN is scoring 16 TDs from 44+ yards out...
https://tdalabamamag.com/2020/08/18/naj ... he%20event.

I guess we wont ever know, and it can be almost assumed he's not a 4.45, right? But around 4.5? Thats about what I see. Maybe 4.55ish.

And yeah, I don't *really* comp ETN to Jones, just was fun to look at haha
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RB: K Walker, T Ettiene, JK Dobbins, D Gore, J Hasty, D Johnson, L Rountree
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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby Sriracha » Sun May 09, 2021 1:25 pm

honcho55 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 1:07 pm
https://tdalabamamag.com/2020/08/18/naj ... he%20event.

I guess we wont ever know, and it can be almost assumed he's not a 4.45, right? But around 4.5? Thats about what I see. Maybe 4.55ish.

And yeah, I don't *really* comp ETN to Jones, just was fun to look at haha
https://www.zybeksports.com/the-time-di ... ted%20time.

+ .10 - .26 seconds for Hand timed vs FAT

I realize the combine is a hybrid hand timed / laser timed process (and not exactly FAT) but a hand timed 4.45 doesn't tell us much, really.

He could very easily be a 4.6 runner at the combine.

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Re: Are Najee & ETN the 2021 versions of Fournette & Cook?

Postby tresskid84 » Sun May 09, 2021 2:00 pm

Everyone at penn state runs a 4.3 during spring workouts, lol
2021-Orphan Rebuild, 12tm PPR, SF, 1.75 TE Prem
2 SF, 8 Flex

QB: Mayfield, Z Wilson, D Jones, Heinicke, Rudolph, Foles
RB: Herbert, Felton, Evans, Nwangwu, Calais
WR: D Smith, Waddle, Chark, J Palmer, D P-J, Raymond, Washington, Jauan, Darden, Fehoko, Smith-Marsette, C Johnson, Proche, Shi Smith, A Tate, ESB, JJAW
TE: O'Shaughnessy, Moreau, Granson, Tyree J, Hu Bryant, Hopkins, Fortson
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2021-Orphan Rebuild, 16tm PPR, SF, 1.5pr TE, DEVY:
1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 SF, 3 Flex
Draft is rookies and devy (only 2022 NFL eligible)

QB: Tua, Fields, Brissett, Foles, Purdy(D), T Morgan(D)
RB: Etienne, Gainwell, Homer, T Jones, J Hill, Ragas, Sargent, Calais, Funk,
WR: Cephus, Nico, J Palmer, Gage, Quez, P Williams, JJAW, Strachan, Proche, Lil'Jordan, Shi Smith, Fryfogle(D)
TE: Moreau, Maxx, H Long, RSJ, Tyree J
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