James Robinson

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
StripesOfKC
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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby StripesOfKC » Mon May 10, 2021 3:11 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:03 pm
murphysxm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:55 am One can argue one of the main reasons LF was given another NFL job was his original draft capital. Robinson had an outstanding rookie year, and his team rewarded him by investing heavily at RB through the draft. Draft capital indeed means Jack
My point is that in the fantasy community LFs draft capital currently has meant squat even in spite of his production (in 2019 he was RB6 behind Cook). Based on arguments about draft capital I’ve seen, my expectation would be that LF would have still “maintained” his fantasy value as a top RB, but that clearly has been FAR from the case. I’m bringing this up as a clear example of how on the other side of a guy like James Robinson, draft capital is not always quite the story we make it out to be. Because if that were so LF wouldn’t be as faded as he is...I just don’t think NFL draft capital means squat in fantasy. Reggie Bush was also a 1st round RB......
And Reggie Bush was given chance after chance to run away with the Saints RB job. He just couldn't stay healthy and the team's passing attack was their most efficient play

And again point me to Fournette earning draft capital from his current organization. Did they trade a 1st round pick for him?

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby murphysxm » Mon May 10, 2021 4:06 pm

StripesOfKC wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:11 pm
And Reggie Bush was given chance after chance to run away with the Saints RB job.
This is the crux for me. I am not saying I agree, but if a team invests a 1st round pick on a player, that player has a much longer leash than a player signed off the street. To not acknowledge this seems obtuse to me.
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Re: James Robinson

Postby mild » Mon May 10, 2021 4:15 pm

It's time to dismiss James Robinson.

https://twitter.com/RonStewart_/status/ ... 9613839363

Feel free to try and disagree with this mountain of evidence...

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby mild » Mon May 10, 2021 4:19 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:56 am But I think it’s fascinating that a player like Robinson can be faded so hard because of draft capital in comparison to ETN...
Firstly: you promised you'd keep that profile picture forever, so I am loving that you are quadrupling down.

Secondly, it's interesting that you bring up Ronald Jones...

https://twitter.com/RonStewart_/status/ ... 9613839363

As Ron so rightfully points out: explain how James Robinson wasn't just a product of extreme volume and zero competition? He now has elite competition with 1st round draft capital. How can we NOT fade him?

It's time. The fade is here, whether you like it or not. And yes, I'm going to enjoy every second of it. We had to listen to you talk this nonsense for a whole year, after all. :D

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby SteveMaddensShoes » Mon May 10, 2021 5:01 pm

I can't even quite understand what you are getting at.

LF has been not great for awhile and still in the league. He just keeps on getting opportunities. Just imagine if he was putting up numbers like JRob. He would still be valued as a mid 1st round pick at 27. If JRob had put up those numbers as a 1st round pick we wouldn't be concerned AT ALL with him being replaced in this years draft. If ETN puts up 1k+ yards rushing and 10tds next year there will be a 1% chance JAX drafts another RB in the first round. For better or worse, that's what draft capital does.
TEAM 1 - 12 man SF. ppr, TEP 1.65 ppr

11 starters - QB, RB(2) WR(3) TE, SF, Flex(3)

Stroud, Kyler, Bryce Young, Anthony Richardson, Minshew, Trey Lance, Dalton l, Mike White

Breece, Achane, AJ Dillon, Justice Hill, Evan Hull, Chris Rodgriquez

Chase, Lamb, Waddle, Olave, London Drake, Demario Davis, Jake Bobo

Kyle Pitts, Mark Andrews, Kincaid, Schoonmaker

24 picks - 1x2, 3,4,5

Team 2-
12 man SF, .25ppc, .5ppr rbs, 1 ppr wr, 1.5 ppr TE

Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawerence, Jake Haehner, Jake Browning

JT, Kendre Miller,, K Ingram, Ty Chandler, Michael Carter, Kenny Macintosh, Sean Tucker

Puka, Rondale, Mooney, Wan’dale, Terrace Marshall, DPJ, Justyn Ross, Xavier Hutchinson,

Kyle Pitts, Luke Musgrave, Juwan Johnson, Darnell Washington, Jelani Woods, Elijah Higgins


24 - 1st x 3, 2nd x 2, 4th x 3 ,5

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby The MAC Machine » Sat May 15, 2021 12:03 pm

SteveMaddensShoes wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:01 pm I can't even quite understand what you are getting at.

LF has been not great for awhile and still in the league.
Yea, you’re right he hasn’t been great since 2019 when he put up 1600+ total yards and 70 catches. Saquon Barkley also hasn’t been great for awhile (since 2019) :crazy:

The point I’m getting at is NFL draft capital is not as strongly tied to fantasy production as people make it out to be. Draft capital may be strongly tied to opportunity, and opportunity is a factor in production. But in 3 years we could be very much be fading ETN just as hard as Fournette is being faded now because the Jaguars don’t use ETN like we think he will be or should be used. Maybe this opportunity doesn’t play out fantasy wise like many of you think.

My bottom line is that many people are fading Robinson too hard too soon (as if he needs more fading), AND ALSO conversely we are setting ETN up to be a monumental disappointment by assuming his arrival means JRob completely kicks the can. They can both still be productive....ETN might even be more productive (ala Fournette who has 2 top 10 RB seasons in his first 3 seasons in the league). But if Robinson is still productive, I are we going to fade ETN like people fade Chubb or Fournette because he didn’t outright take the job from JRob? I wouldn’t. But it seems like many of you would. 🤷‍♂️

Based on what I know about Robinsons personality I just don’t think JRobs going to fall off the face of the planet like many of you think. Based on that belief I think many of you are going to be disappointed with a very good RB, just like many of you are disappointed with fournette even though he has had solid production.
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12 TEAM SUPERFLEX PPR
START: QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 TE, 3 FLEX, 1 SUPERFLEX
ROSTER STARTERS
QB: S. Darnold (CAR)
RB: J. Jacobs (LV), L. Fournette (TB)
WR: Cooper (DAL), Ridley (ATL), M. Williams (LAC)
TE: R. Seals-Jones (WAS), M. Alie-Cox (IND)
FLEX: Sutton (DEN), J. Smith-Schuster (PIT), D. Harris (NE)
SUPERFLEX: M. Jones (NE)


BENCH:
QB: Rudolph (PIT), Book (NO), Minshew (PHL), Stidham (NE)
RB: Cord. Patterson (ATL), A. Collins (SEA), D. Dallas (SEA), K. Vaughn (TB), JJ Taylor (NE), S. Perine (CIN)
WR: M. Jones (JAX), Zaccheus (ATL), G. Olszewski (NE)
TE: B. Jarwin (DAL), D. Asiasi (NE)
IR: Tre' Q. Smith (NO), Tyrod Taylor (HOU), Chark Jr (JAX), R. Penny (SEA)

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sat May 15, 2021 1:54 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:03 pm
Yea, you’re right he hasn’t been great since 2019 when he put up 1600+ total yards and 70 catches. Saquon Barkley also hasn’t been great for awhile (since 2019) :crazy:

The point I’m getting at is NFL draft capital is not as strongly tied to fantasy production as people make it out to be. Draft capital may be strongly tied to opportunity, and opportunity is a factor in production. But in 3 years we could be very much be fading ETN just as hard as Fournette is being faded now because the Jaguars don’t use ETN like we think he will be or should be used. Maybe this opportunity doesn’t play out fantasy wise like many of you think.
It's happened before. Seattle used a 1st round pick on Rashaad Penny, and since then he's played clearly behind Chris Carson, a 7th round pick. Draft capital doesn't always mean opportunity, but it is the clearest route to opportunity. A 1st round talent having opportunity is a pretty solid combination for production.

Etienne may not be a really good RB. Hell, I don't think he's an elite talent or something either, but all that matters is Jacksonville drafted him to have the opportunity to be the guy.
My bottom line is that many people are fading Robinson too hard too soon (as if he needs more fading), AND ALSO conversely we are setting ETN up to be a monumental disappointment by assuming his arrival means JRob completely kicks the can. They can both still be productive....ETN might even be more productive (ala Fournette who has 2 top 10 RB seasons in his first 3 seasons in the league). But if Robinson is still productive, I are we going to fade ETN like people fade Chubb or Fournette because he didn’t outright take the job from JRob? I wouldn’t. But it seems like many of you would.
People are (rightfully) reacting to Jacksonville's new regime taking a 1st round RB.

If you were the GM of an NFL team and you were content with your options at RB, you would not under any circumstances spend a 1st round pick on an RB. Jacksonville clearly put no stock into Robinson's season, and he just may not fit what Urban Meyer wants to do on offense.

If that scenario changes, then I think people would adjust accordingly, but currently there's no evidence that Jacksonville is hoping Robinson remains the lead back.

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Re: James Robinson

Postby SteveMaddensShoes » Sat May 15, 2021 2:20 pm

I don't know that anyone is fading too hard to soon. I think he is a late 2nd in a SF. I'm taking all the NFL round 1 wrs over him, I'm taking the Moore's, Terrace Marshall, Trey Sermon(but not for floor, just upside). Maybe Freiermuth in TEP. So I'm not fading him extremely hard. I'm not taking Gainwell or Carter over him. I'm not taking Tutu or Schwartz over him. He seems to be right where he should be for a guy that had someone from the same position drafted in the 1st by a new coaching staff.
TEAM 1 - 12 man SF. ppr, TEP 1.65 ppr

11 starters - QB, RB(2) WR(3) TE, SF, Flex(3)

Stroud, Kyler, Bryce Young, Anthony Richardson, Minshew, Trey Lance, Dalton l, Mike White

Breece, Achane, AJ Dillon, Justice Hill, Evan Hull, Chris Rodgriquez

Chase, Lamb, Waddle, Olave, London Drake, Demario Davis, Jake Bobo

Kyle Pitts, Mark Andrews, Kincaid, Schoonmaker

24 picks - 1x2, 3,4,5

Team 2-
12 man SF, .25ppc, .5ppr rbs, 1 ppr wr, 1.5 ppr TE

Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawerence, Jake Haehner, Jake Browning

JT, Kendre Miller,, K Ingram, Ty Chandler, Michael Carter, Kenny Macintosh, Sean Tucker

Puka, Rondale, Mooney, Wan’dale, Terrace Marshall, DPJ, Justyn Ross, Xavier Hutchinson,

Kyle Pitts, Luke Musgrave, Juwan Johnson, Darnell Washington, Jelani Woods, Elijah Higgins


24 - 1st x 3, 2nd x 2, 4th x 3 ,5

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby Bronco Billy » Sat May 15, 2021 3:12 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:03 pm
SteveMaddensShoes wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:01 pm I can't even quite understand what you are getting at.

LF has been not great for awhile and still in the league.
Yea, you’re right he hasn’t been great since 2019 when he put up 1600+ total yards and 70 catches. Saquon Barkley also hasn’t been great for awhile (since 2019) :crazy:

The point I’m getting at is NFL draft capital is not as strongly tied to fantasy production as people make it out to be. Draft capital may be strongly tied to opportunity, and opportunity is a factor in production. But in 3 years we could be very much be fading ETN just as hard as Fournette is being faded now because the Jaguars don’t use ETN like we think he will be or should be used. Maybe this opportunity doesn’t play out fantasy wise like many of you think.

My bottom line is that many people are fading Robinson too hard too soon (as if he needs more fading), AND ALSO conversely we are setting ETN up to be a monumental disappointment by assuming his arrival means JRob completely kicks the can. They can both still be productive....ETN might even be more productive (ala Fournette who has 2 top 10 RB seasons in his first 3 seasons in the league). But if Robinson is still productive, I are we going to fade ETN like people fade Chubb or Fournette because he didn’t outright take the job from JRob? I wouldn’t. But it seems like many of you would. 🤷‍♂️

Based on what I know about Robinsons personality I just don’t think JRobs going to fall off the face of the planet like many of you think. Based on that belief I think many of you are going to be disappointed with a very good RB, just like many of you are disappointed with fournette even though he has had solid production.
This is a perfectly reasonable position. That’s likely why it is drawing so much derision from some quarters.

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Re: James Robinson

Postby Ice » Sat May 15, 2021 4:47 pm

Don't see anyone fading on Robinson as a talented player. The real reality though is his production will most likely be closer to Latavius Murray's numbers the last few years than his numbers of last year.

Etienne will be on the field a ton given he is a legit threat score when the ball is in his hands.
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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby SteveMaddensShoes » Sat May 15, 2021 5:32 pm

Bronco Billy wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:12 pm
The Godwin Complex wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:03 pm
SteveMaddensShoes wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:01 pm I can't even quite understand what you are getting at.

LF has been not great for awhile and still in the league.
Yea, you’re right he hasn’t been great since 2019 when he put up 1600+ total yards and 70 catches. Saquon Barkley also hasn’t been great for awhile (since 2019) :crazy:

The point I’m getting at is NFL draft capital is not as strongly tied to fantasy production as people make it out to be. Draft capital may be strongly tied to opportunity, and opportunity is a factor in production. But in 3 years we could be very much be fading ETN just as hard as Fournette is being faded now because the Jaguars don’t use ETN like we think he will be or should be used. Maybe this opportunity doesn’t play out fantasy wise like many of you think.

My bottom line is that many people are fading Robinson too hard too soon (as if he needs more fading), AND ALSO conversely we are setting ETN up to be a monumental disappointment by assuming his arrival means JRob completely kicks the can. They can both still be productive....ETN might even be more productive (ala Fournette who has 2 top 10 RB seasons in his first 3 seasons in the league). But if Robinson is still productive, I are we going to fade ETN like people fade Chubb or Fournette because he didn’t outright take the job from JRob? I wouldn’t. But it seems like many of you would. 🤷‍♂️

Based on what I know about Robinsons personality I just don’t think JRobs going to fall off the face of the planet like many of you think. Based on that belief I think many of you are going to be disappointed with a very good RB, just like many of you are disappointed with fournette even though he has had solid production.
This is a perfectly reasonable position. That’s likely why it is drawing so much derision from some quarters.

I have from the beginning pounded the table over the odds an udfa faces to keep his lead role NOT JAMES ROBINSON THE PLAYER. He must play well, be liked by current and future coaching staffa, not embarrass a general manager, be liked in the locker room, stave off injury, and Jrob seemingly did almost all those things. Yet, he is being replaced/downgraded in value because its not enough for reasons i cannot fathom.

If ETN falls flat on his face, what would keep Jax from repeating their mistake and drafting yet another rb?

I think it possible James Robinson COULD be the next Arian Foster or Priest Holmes, but even MORE needs to break right for him than did at any point last season. Its just not worth the risk with UDFAs to hold or pay premium prices for them. (unless they are the winning piece midseason to a championship I suppose)
TEAM 1 - 12 man SF. ppr, TEP 1.65 ppr

11 starters - QB, RB(2) WR(3) TE, SF, Flex(3)

Stroud, Kyler, Bryce Young, Anthony Richardson, Minshew, Trey Lance, Dalton l, Mike White

Breece, Achane, AJ Dillon, Justice Hill, Evan Hull, Chris Rodgriquez

Chase, Lamb, Waddle, Olave, London Drake, Demario Davis, Jake Bobo

Kyle Pitts, Mark Andrews, Kincaid, Schoonmaker

24 picks - 1x2, 3,4,5

Team 2-
12 man SF, .25ppc, .5ppr rbs, 1 ppr wr, 1.5 ppr TE

Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawerence, Jake Haehner, Jake Browning

JT, Kendre Miller,, K Ingram, Ty Chandler, Michael Carter, Kenny Macintosh, Sean Tucker

Puka, Rondale, Mooney, Wan’dale, Terrace Marshall, DPJ, Justyn Ross, Xavier Hutchinson,

Kyle Pitts, Luke Musgrave, Juwan Johnson, Darnell Washington, Jelani Woods, Elijah Higgins


24 - 1st x 3, 2nd x 2, 4th x 3 ,5

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Re: James Robinson

Postby Blueboy » Sat May 15, 2021 8:07 pm

SteveMaddensShoes wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 2:20 pm I don't know that anyone is fading too hard to soon. I think he is a late 2nd in a SF. I'm taking all the NFL round 1 wrs over him, I'm taking the Moore's, Terrace Marshall, Trey Sermon(but not for floor, just upside). Maybe Freiermuth in TEP. So I'm not fading him extremely hard. I'm not taking Gainwell or Carter over him. I'm not taking Tutu or Schwartz over him. He seems to be right where he should be for a guy that had someone from the same position drafted in the 1st by a new coaching staff.
I just traded OJH for Robinson in a TE premium league (some other pieces on both sides, but that was the focus of the trade). Feels like the right range for him.

I'm fully expecting Robinson to be a flex option at best next year, but there's a chance he gets traded to the Falcons right?

12-team SF, PPR, TE premium, 0.25 PPCarry
1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1SF 4Flex
QB: Mahomes, Fields, Love
RB: Bijan, ETN, Pollard, Achane, Herbert
WR: Kupp, Hill, Metcalf, Ridley, Jeudy, D.J. M, Burks, Hollywood, Wan'Dale
TE: Kyle Pitts, Goedert

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Re: Is James Robinson a dynasty buy?

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun May 16, 2021 4:46 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:54 pm
If you were the GM of an NFL team and you were content with your options at RB, you would not under any circumstances spend a 1st round pick on an RB. Jacksonville clearly put no stock into Robinson's season, and he just may not fit what Urban Meyer wants to do on offense.

If that scenario changes, then I think people would adjust accordingly, but currently there's no evidence that Jacksonville is hoping Robinson remains the lead back.
Well, if I’m an NFL HC and I’ve got a guy, without benefit of a passing game that put any fear in opposing DCs, who managed to post a 4.5 ypc across 14 games last year then I’ve got a RB who is proven to get my offense run by a rookie QB ahead of the sticks on a regular basis. I’m not going to casually discard that proven commodity. I’ll find a way to incorporate that guy into my offense and use his strengths in coordination with the shiny new RB I just got in the draft but has yet to run one down in a NFL game.

I can very easily visualize a RBBC in JAX until Etienne proves he’s capable of doing some heavy lifting better than Robinson between the tackles at the next level. There is currently quite literally no evidence Etienne has proven that, while Robinson has his NFL resume.

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Re: James Robinson

Postby thebeast » Sun May 16, 2021 5:07 am

Fwiw, they are now saying Etiene is going to be used in a hybrid role. Interestingly, Jax said they had planned to draft Toney if he was available and since the giants took him the took Etienne. Perhaps things will shake out a little differently than conventional thinking.

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Re: James Robinson

Postby Patsfan86 » Sun May 16, 2021 5:21 am

thebeast wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 5:07 am Fwiw, they are now saying Etiene is going to be used in a hybrid role. Interestingly, Jax said they had planned to draft Toney if he was available and since the giants took him the took Etienne. Perhaps things will shake out a little differently than conventional thinking.
Perhaps but i still dont think this is a good thing for Robinson at all. Most of us play PPR so this seems to indicated Etienne is going to be used a lot in the passing game. There goes most of Robinsons PPR points, plus half of his carries ill be taken plus half of his TDs will be taken. Im also surprised im not seeing anyone bring up the fact that Etienne and Lawrence know each other so well that Lawrence is going to go to Etienne a lot just due to being familiar with him. If Etienne is in some hybrid role where Robinson is also on the field dont we envision Lawrence going to Etienne here just out of trust? Robinson is still probably worth a second but im not paying that for him and nothing will change my mind on this until we see what the season brings


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