He might not play like him, but a body of his size could easily be f'ed up by incoming NFL hits. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they seem to share similar body types. DeSean proved to be pretty successfull(but how many times does that happen in the NFL with WRs like that opposed to prototypical sized WRs), still not anywhere near of a WR you wanna draft high in your rookie draft and build your team around longterm-wise. To me its just not the type of player I wanna build around.
Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
24 roster spots - 1QB,2RB,3WR,1TE,1Flex
QB: Herbert,Minshew
RB: Breece,Walker,Taylor,BRobinson,Allgeier,Spiller
WR:Jefferson,Lamb,DJMoore,QJohnston,Jameson,MMims, T.Marshall,Shakir,Gallup
TE: Andrews,Conklin
DST:DAL
2024 picks: 1.11, 2.10, 4.01, 4.05, 4.07, 4.11
QB: Herbert,Minshew
RB: Breece,Walker,Taylor,BRobinson,Allgeier,Spiller
WR:Jefferson,Lamb,DJMoore,QJohnston,Jameson,MMims, T.Marshall,Shakir,Gallup
TE: Andrews,Conklin
DST:DAL
2024 picks: 1.11, 2.10, 4.01, 4.05, 4.07, 4.11
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
I really like the Marvin Harrison comp I've seen. The playmaking and route running to the size. I believe Marvin was just a little heavier, but Smith could put on weight.BradyT wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 6:51 pmHe might not play like him, but a body of his size could easily be f'ed up by incoming NFL hits. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they seem to share similar body types. DeSean proved to be pretty successfull(but how many times does that happen in the NFL with WRs like that opposed to prototypical sized WRs), still not anywhere near of a WR you wanna draft high in your rookie draft and build your team around longterm-wise. To me its just not the type of player I wanna build around.
It's a pet peeve of mine but basically anyone under 6’0 and fast gets compared to DJAX. Smith is probably a tick slower, but better play maker and taller. While DJAX was a better burner
Smiths slightness does worry me, but would it be a big deal if he gained 10 lbs?
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
All WR's carry some risk it seems, but Smith is probably my favorite WR prospect I have come across in years.
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Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
Not exactly. Jefferson is a hindsight thing anyway. Nobody saw the best statistical rookie WR season ever coming from him.YouMightDieTryin wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:11 pmSo Jefferson vs Ruggs comparison? I'll go with JJ/Smith.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 10:49 am Smith is the more complete WR, so I would take him, but Waddle comes with more speed/big play potential.
Waddle has more speed than Smith, but he can run good routes and get open too. He's just not as smooth and sudden as Smith is, at least to me.
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Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
Record breaking rookie season sure--that's hindsightCameron Giles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:34 pmNot exactly. Jefferson is a hindsight thing anyway. Nobody saw the best statistical rookie WR season ever coming from him.YouMightDieTryin wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:11 pmSo Jefferson vs Ruggs comparison? I'll go with JJ/Smith.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 10:49 am Smith is the more complete WR, so I would take him, but Waddle comes with more speed/big play potential.
Waddle has more speed than Smith, but he can run good routes and get open too. He's just not as smooth and sudden as Smith is, at least to me.
Being better than bums like Reagor and Ruggs? Yeah that wasn't hard to see
He was a superstud in college and they (especially Ruggs but both) were...not
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Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
This time last year:StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:39 pmRecord breaking rookie season sure--that's hindsightCameron Giles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:34 pmNot exactly. Jefferson is a hindsight thing anyway. Nobody saw the best statistical rookie WR season ever coming from him.YouMightDieTryin wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:11 pm
So Jefferson vs Ruggs comparison? I'll go with JJ/Smith.
Waddle has more speed than Smith, but he can run good routes and get open too. He's just not as smooth and sudden as Smith is, at least to me.
Being better than bums like Reagor and Ruggs? Yeah that wasn't hard to see
He was a superstud in college and they (especially Ruggs but both) were...not
1.08 - Reagor
1.09 - Jefferson
1.11 - Ruggs
http://mizelle.net/mfl/2020/
They were all damn near viewed equally. We're not going to act like Jefferson being a stud was this predictable outcome. I think everyone liked his game though. You rarely saw people who didn't think he was at least a solid prospect.
Either way, I don't really think Jefferson and Smith have the same game, even if there are a few similarities in route running.
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Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
Yeah their ADPs being close was stupid then and that's not just speaking from current knowledgeCameron Giles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:45 pmThis time last year:StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:39 pmRecord breaking rookie season sure--that's hindsightCameron Giles wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:34 pm
Not exactly. Jefferson is a hindsight thing anyway. Nobody saw the best statistical rookie WR season ever coming from him.
Waddle has more speed than Smith, but he can run good routes and get open too. He's just not as smooth and sudden as Smith is, at least to me.
Being better than bums like Reagor and Ruggs? Yeah that wasn't hard to see
He was a superstud in college and they (especially Ruggs but both) were...not
1.08 - Reagor
1.09 - Jefferson
1.11 - Ruggs
http://mizelle.net/mfl/2020/
They were all damn near viewed equally. We're not going to act like Jefferson being a stud was this predictable outcome. I think everyone liked his game though. You rarely saw people who didn't think he was at least a solid prospect.
Either way, I don't really think Jefferson and Smith have the same game, even if there are a few similarities in route running.
Anyone who watched Reagor and Jefferson play in college and thought they were remotely close was blinded by analytics
Don't even start on Ruggs. Player who was bad and unproductive in college is bad and unproductive in the NFL--shocker
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
I get the weight concerns that many have but I don't worry about it as much in today's NFL. I like the comps I heard comparing him more to Issac Bruce or Marvin Harrison of yesteryear that played against a different set of rules very successfully. They were in the 170's.BradyT wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 6:51 pmHe might not play like him, but a body of his size could easily be f'ed up by incoming NFL hits. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they seem to share similar body types. DeSean proved to be pretty successfull(but how many times does that happen in the NFL with WRs like that opposed to prototypical sized WRs), still not anywhere near of a WR you wanna draft high in your rookie draft and build your team around longterm-wise. To me its just not the type of player I wanna build around.
I do expect Smith to put on some weight in the pros with nutrition, weights, and age. My take is a healthy Smith will be a big time star in this league with his great route skill set.
You won't be alone in passing on him based on his build; I get that.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
Smith.
Height worries me more than weight. Waddle is not 5-10, more like 5-9. Of the receivers on the top 20 receptions list for 2020, most are 6-1 or taller and only one is less than 6-0. That was Tyler Lockett, and I'm not sure I want to predict Waddle is going to be that good yet. The first receiver on that list below 5-10 is Cole Beasley at #21. That's a comp I'm comfortable making for Waddle, but if his NFL comp is Beasley, or Cooks at 5-10 and #22 on that list, are his NFL comps, that's nothing to get very excited about. Good solid production now, but not difference-making fantasy players. And in Beasley's case, it took him 5 years to achieve 800 yards in a season.
If I have to choose between Waddle and Smith, I'm taking Smith and hoping he finds a way to add 10 pounds without getting caught taking illegal supplements.
Height worries me more than weight. Waddle is not 5-10, more like 5-9. Of the receivers on the top 20 receptions list for 2020, most are 6-1 or taller and only one is less than 6-0. That was Tyler Lockett, and I'm not sure I want to predict Waddle is going to be that good yet. The first receiver on that list below 5-10 is Cole Beasley at #21. That's a comp I'm comfortable making for Waddle, but if his NFL comp is Beasley, or Cooks at 5-10 and #22 on that list, are his NFL comps, that's nothing to get very excited about. Good solid production now, but not difference-making fantasy players. And in Beasley's case, it took him 5 years to achieve 800 yards in a season.
If I have to choose between Waddle and Smith, I'm taking Smith and hoping he finds a way to add 10 pounds without getting caught taking illegal supplements.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
I agree. Although, I see Waddle as more a John Brown than Cooks. If you're telling me I could draft a Cooks level player late 1st every year, I would. Since 2015, Cooks (PPR) was WR13, 10, 15, 13, 61 (concussions), 17. Waddle would be lucky to do that and people take Cooks for granted.Anteaters wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 4:32 am Smith.
Height worries me more than weight. Waddle is not 5-10, more like 5-9. Of the receivers on the top 20 receptions list for 2020, most are 6-1 or taller and only one is less than 6-0. That was Tyler Lockett, and I'm not sure I want to predict Waddle is going to be that good yet. The first receiver on that list below 5-10 is Cole Beasley at #21. That's a comp I'm comfortable making for Waddle, but if his NFL comp is Beasley, or Cooks at 5-10 and #22 on that list, are his NFL comps, that's nothing to get very excited about. Good solid production now, but not difference-making fantasy players. And in Beasley's case, it took him 5 years to achieve 800 yards in a season.
If I have to choose between Waddle and Smith, I'm taking Smith and hoping he finds a way to add 10 pounds without getting caught taking illegal supplements.
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
You're right on three counts.
1: Those are very good finishes for any WR year after year.
2: Even though I should have known better because I always target him in redraft leagues, I undervalued Cooks right there. There is a sizeable gap in how productive the careers of Cooks and Beasley have been.
3: Waddle would be lucky to have a career as productive as Cooks.
However,
Playing wise, John Brown might be similar to Waddle, but physically Brown is 2 inches taller. There's a risk Waddle won't be able to overcome the height difference and be as productive a WR. Not to mention that Brown has not been only 2 out of 7 years. I hope Waddle has a better fantasy career than Brown so far.
I was kind of optimistic about Waddle in recent days. I guess as a Dolphins fan I was trying to find the silver lining in Miami choosing Waddle over Smith. But the more I look into their stats, body types, playing styles, etc, the less optimistic I get about Waddle. And the lower I move him on my dynasty draft board.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
The NFL is changing my friend. You no longer have to be 6'5" to play QB or 6'4" to play WR. The NFL wants playmakers. Waddle is that.Anteaters wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 7:45 amYou're right on three counts.
1: Those are very good finishes for any WR year after year.
2: Even though I should have known better because I always target him in redraft leagues, I undervalued Cooks right there. There is a sizeable gap in how productive the careers of Cooks and Beasley have been.
3: Waddle would be lucky to have a career as productive as Cooks.
However,
Playing wise, John Brown might be similar to Waddle, but physically Brown is 2 inches taller. There's a risk Waddle won't be able to overcome the height difference and be as productive a WR. Not to mention that Brown has not been only 2 out of 7 years. I hope Waddle has a better fantasy career than Brown so far.
I was kind of optimistic about Waddle in recent days. I guess as a Dolphins fan I was trying to find the silver lining in Miami choosing Waddle over Smith. But the more I look into their stats, body types, playing styles, etc, the less optimistic I get about Waddle. And the lower I move him on my dynasty draft board.
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
I hear this a lot...murphysxm wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 10:21 amThe NFL is changing my friend. You no longer have to be 6'5" to play QB or 6'4" to play WR. The NFL wants playmakers. Waddle is that.Anteaters wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 7:45 amYou're right on three counts.
1: Those are very good finishes for any WR year after year.
2: Even though I should have known better because I always target him in redraft leagues, I undervalued Cooks right there. There is a sizeable gap in how productive the careers of Cooks and Beasley have been.
3: Waddle would be lucky to have a career as productive as Cooks.
However,
Playing wise, John Brown might be similar to Waddle, but physically Brown is 2 inches taller. There's a risk Waddle won't be able to overcome the height difference and be as productive a WR. Not to mention that Brown has not been only 2 out of 7 years. I hope Waddle has a better fantasy career than Brown so far.
I was kind of optimistic about Waddle in recent days. I guess as a Dolphins fan I was trying to find the silver lining in Miami choosing Waddle over Smith. But the more I look into their stats, body types, playing styles, etc, the less optimistic I get about Waddle. And the lower I move him on my dynasty draft board.
but the only fantasy relevant WRs sub 6' were Tyreek Hill, Tyler Lockett, Diontae Johnson, Brandin Cooks.
The game has made it easier for smaller receivers to put up stats.. but they still make up the minority of quality NFL WRs.
I'm all aboard the Waddle train, but I realize I'm betting on an outlier here. Height still plays a much bigger role in a WR's success than many people want to give credit for.
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
I am 6'5". Justin Jefferson is listed at 6'1", Waddle at 5'10". Those are the same heights in mind...... Height also means nothing when the ball is in your hands, Waddle does some special things with the ball in his hands.murphysxm wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 10:21 amThe NFL is changing my friend. You no longer have to be 6'5" to play QB or 6'4" to play WR. The NFL wants playmakers. Waddle is that.Anteaters wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 7:45 amYou're right on three counts.
1: Those are very good finishes for any WR year after year.
2: Even though I should have known better because I always target him in redraft leagues, I undervalued Cooks right there. There is a sizeable gap in how productive the careers of Cooks and Beasley have been.
3: Waddle would be lucky to have a career as productive as Cooks.
However,
Playing wise, John Brown might be similar to Waddle, but physically Brown is 2 inches taller. There's a risk Waddle won't be able to overcome the height difference and be as productive a WR. Not to mention that Brown has not been only 2 out of 7 years. I hope Waddle has a better fantasy career than Brown so far.
I was kind of optimistic about Waddle in recent days. I guess as a Dolphins fan I was trying to find the silver lining in Miami choosing Waddle over Smith. But the more I look into their stats, body types, playing styles, etc, the less optimistic I get about Waddle. And the lower I move him on my dynasty draft board.
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts
Re: Jaylen Waddle or Devonta Smith?
Those stats are from 2020. If no WR under 6-0 made the top 20 for receptions, that means it has not yet actually changed.
If you're right, I don't mind being behind the curve on this one and choosing Smith over Waddle. Even if Waddle performs well, that's doesn't mean anyone made a bad decision to choose Smith who may also perform well. If anything holds Smith back, it will be Hurts whom I don't have much faith in as a NFL caliber passer.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion
TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser
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